New Amateur Conference

[LeMoyneCuse]

And I maintain that, as much as we like players to be treated well, PFP is wrong.

Why?

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

Why?

Because CFB players are student-athletes, not semi-pro employees. The same goes for BB players. NIL for individuals - without the teams that have built rivalries and brands for over a century - is a mirage. The value of NIL lies almost exclusively in performance and recruitment - both ILLEGAL under NCAA rules - still. And antithetical to amateurism.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Because CFB players are student-athletes, not semi-pro employees. The same goes for BB players. NIL - without the teams that have built brands for over a century - is a mirage. The value is in the performance and recruitment - both ILLEGAL under NCAA rules - still.

Everybody cheats. Everybody has always cheated.

Plus, the NCAA isn't an independent entity - it's an organization propped up by its members and is a non-public organization. That's why they're lobbying so hard for an anti-trust exemption - because they know their existing rules will get blown out of the water in court as it stands.

 

[SU68]

Again, it's not a demotion. It's a refusal or failure to rise to a new level that never existed before in which we would not be competitive.

Tomayto, tomahto. It's a level below our historic opponents.

 

[0.2 YNdeeR]

Everybody cheats. Everybody has always cheated.

Plus, the NCAA isn't an independent entity - it's an organization propped up by its members and is a non-public organization. That's why they're lobbying so hard for an anti-trust exemption - because they know their existing rules will get blown out of the water in court as it stands.

We share a similar sense of skepticism about the NCAA. Maybe Baker can bring the parties together and return the organization to some sanity and integrity.

But I reject your argument that I'm naive because I think cheating never went on. Of course it did. I'm well aware. At least before, we punished it instead of making it easy by developing a fake cover story (NIL). That's where (IMO) the real naivete' is: pretending that NIL is actually about kids' photos and signatures. Ridiculous. The value of "NIL" is in the teams - because of century-old team brands and rivalries. The "value" of an individual player - separated from his team name and his athletic performance - is in 99% of the cases zero.

The truth is that boosters are using NIL to justify paying for recruitment and performance, which is exactly why the average SEC fat-cat ponies up money ... to buy players. That's impermissible under NCAA rules. It's antithetical to the concept of a student-athlete, and as Alston states (about compensation-based free-agency in intercollegiate sports) it's unpopular.

So who's naive? Someone who recognizes that corruption existed but advocates for better enforcement and retention of the amateur model? Or someone who pretends that all NIL is about a kid signing autographs at the mall?

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

We share a similar sense of skepticism for the NCAA. Maybe Baker can bring the parties together and return the organization to some sanity and integrity.

But I reject your argument that I'm naive because I think cheating never went on. Of course it did. I'm well aware. At least before, we punished it instead of making it easy by developing a fake cover story (NIL). That's where (IMO) the real naivete' is: pretending that NIL is actually about kids' photos and signatures. Ridiculous. The value of NIL is in the teams - because of century-old team brands and college sports rivalries. An individual player's value - without his team name or his/her athletic performance - is in 99% of the cases zero.

Boosters use NIL to justify paying for recruitment and performance, which is exactly why the average fat-cat SEC booster ponies up money ... to buy players. That's impermissible under NCAA rules. And it's antithetical to the amateur model. In fact, as Alston states, compensation-based free-agency in intercollegiate sports is unpopular.

So who's naive? Someone who recognizes that corruption existed but advocates for better enforcement and retention of the amateur model? Or someone who pretends that all NIL is about a kid signing autographs at the mall?

I want the players to be paid and think they have every right to be. Anything else is rearranging deck chairs on the Titanic.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

I want scholarship players to appreciate the lifetime gift they're receiving ... a college education. They can get paid when they graduate or get drafted. College athletics wasn't sinking, it was thriving ... until this latest NIL farce started (in Florida, of course).

“They should be grateful” is never sentiment that comes with well meaning intentions.

 

[SWC75]

Tomayto, tomahto. It's a level below our historic opponents.

Most of whom would not be a super-conference, either.

It's not just a question of would we want to be there. Would we be chosen? I would think that's unlikely, at best. And I think we'd be better off if we weren't.

 

[SWC75]

I think for most it is a legit question. Would you rather be in a 24 team national Big 12 conference and have 5 to 7 wins every year or would you rather be in a Northeastern conference with access to the Playoffs every year?

Yes, it is a lower level of football but you are playing like minded traditional rivals with close road games and actually make the playoffs occasionally.

It would be akin to the new Big East where we had BCS access. I rather have that than never be competitive vs teams like Arizona, Utah, Baylor, Kansas State. In the later case we are still in a lower level, have no marquee games, and have no chance at the playoffs. Oh and all the road games are far away.

We're getting 5-7 wins a season now. We wouldn't get that in a super conference.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

We're getting 5-7 wins a season now. We wouldn't get that in a super conference.

The B12 wouldn't be "super" but a bunch of middling teams. We wouldn't have Clemson and FSU to deal with.

 

[SWC75]

The B12 wouldn't be "super" but a bunch of middling teams. We wouldn't have Clemson and FSU to deal with.

I see - that would be a conference of the 'left behind'. I'd go with 8 nine team conferences of the best 'left behinds' and a playoff of the champions of those conferences.

 

[bt4421]

Regarding the OP, the megaconference idea is coming. it's a question of "when", not "if".


It's not safe to assume Rapture for Notre Dame, as it would depend on the ground rules for the megaconference. The one I foresee won't require class attendance and that's a no-no for ND.

Regarding the OP, the megaconference idea is coming. it's a question of "when", not "if".


It's not safe to assume Rapture for Notre Dame, as it would depend on the ground rules for the megaconference. The one I foresee won't require class attendance and that's a no-no for ND.

Hoo, would you say the level of NIL disenchantment amongst Virginia fans equals that seen here, is greater or less? Im quite curious how this whole thing is being received elsewhere. I would imagine the fans of the universities considered to be elite football and basketball are probably ok with it all to a larger degree than the lesser programs. Virginia is a close peer to syracuse for comparison.

 

[Hoo's That]

Hoo, would you say the level of NIL disenchantment amongst Virginia fans equals that seen here, is greater or less? Im quite curious how this whole thing is being received elsewhere. I would imagine the fans of the universities considered to be elite football and basketball are probably ok with it all to a larger degree than the lesser programs. Virginia is a close peer to syracuse for comparison.

We have a NIL program, but it wouldn't reach the level of "chump change" for the Blue Bloods. There have been some players in commercials. Jayden Gardner did one for The Good Feet Store insoles. Our fans express the same levels of disgust, disenchantment, and displeasure with the transfer and NIL situations that I see here on your board. There are threads about them every day on the football and/or b-ball boards. Right now on our B-Ball board is a discussion of why a 5-star turned us down, basically for money elsewhere. I said that if the determining factor for him was money I question whether he was really considering playing for us in the first place or just "saying the right things" when he visited and that made people think he was serious. I left unsaid, "Do we really want a player like that?", but I'm sure I wasn't the only one thinking that.

The dynamic is interesting. There's a group of people who hang onto a faint hope that we can be in this super league. The biggest group doesn't know what to think because things are changing what seems like hourly and what they thought should be done at 9 AM is now overtaken by events and no longer is an option. And then there's a group, dominated by alumni, that includes me. It's somewhat equally divided among the "we'll never have that kind of money, so why bother," "look at the low lifes we'd have to consort with," and the "we want students to wear our colors" factions who do not want UVa to even consider being part of this super league and to start formulating plans about what to do when, not "if" (Wow, I just got hit by déjà vu), it happens.

 

[David332]

I hope SUFB always competes at the highest level, whatever that may be. Personally I think the ACC in its current format is perfect for us, though the landscape is clearly starting to change for the future it seems.

Either way, I’ll be obsessively following and going to all the games no matter what conference/ level we are in. The Dome, the tailgating, the friends, the history, memories etc. It’s fun no matter what.

 

[BlazeOrange]

Ncaa needs to adopt the relegation model like European club soccer.

Start with all 129 FBS teams split into these 4 leagues:
Top league: P5 top 32 teams
2nd league: P5 bottom 33 teams
3rd league: G5 top 32 teams
4th league: G5 bottom 32 teams

Each year the top 3 or 4 teams in each league get promoted up a league, bottom 3 or 4 get relegated down.

I would love to see something like this, but with actual relegation games:
- Autopromote league champions since they will lkely be involved in some kind of playoff.
- Autodemote last place team to even out the incoming champions.
- 2nd and 3rd worst teams play the 2nd/3rd best teams from the lower league. Winners get to join the upper league. Tie bowl games to these and schedule for later in playoff season when not many games are being played.

Two major issues:
1. The top teams would have a conflict with whatever playoff system is in place and might have to choose whether to play for a championship that season or go for a league promotion.

2. The transfer rules could mess with the games like they are with bowl games right now. Top players on upper league teams facing relegation games could transfer to "safe" schools and opt out of playing in the relegation game.

 

[Hoo's That]

I would love to see something like this, but with actual relegation games:
{snip}

"Relegation/promotion" is a concept foreign (literally and figuratively) to US sports and hopefully will remain that way. The usual suspects in just about every league play for the championship just about every year. A different group of usual suspects are in the middle just about every year and bordering on relegation, and a third group of usual suspects commute each year between the top and next levels.

What does that accomplish? What do you hope to accomplish with relegation/promotion?