djorange1989
Living Legend
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Can I like this post 3 times?
New Assistant: Dan Engelstad [Official]
- Thread starter pwong
- Start date
PauliePeppas
Hall of Fame
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Holy thats pathetic
littlereg
845 hoops extraordinaire
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5 of the 9 are ACC schools…. Ooof
Is Selection Sunday actually that fun if you’re clearly in the tournament? I would argue March itself is fun but as a top seed selection Sunday is just another day. It’s really only fun for bubble teams who get in.
Domedog84
2nd String
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He was hired because that is who Red chose. The guy was a head coach. What strategic names were dropped? I am actually interested. I read this board every day and only remember the Monteverde connection mentioned. I think we hired our ace recruiter last year with Straughn, so why not hire a guy that has run a program before?
Honestly I liked the Straughn hire, but what made you like that hire more than this one?
Orangezoo
In the wind
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Why don’t you just answer the question of why he is a bad hire… and be specific.
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Sherman20
2018 Iggy Leading Scorer Winner
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This may be valid but it’s also one of those context-lacking/goalpost shifting lists that people love to trot out to get everyone riled up. Who cares if you’re ranked near the bottom of one random poll in January (which is what a lot of these teams were)?
I’d rather be ranked at the end of the season, which is what matters, and we’ve been there twice during this period, including in the top 10:
NCAA Men’s College Basketball Coaches Poll | USA Today Sports
Weekly results from the USA TODAY Sports NCAA Men’s College Basketball coaches poll, conducted weekly using a panel of head coaches at Division I schools.
sportsdata.usatoday.com
NCAA Men’s College Basketball Coaches Poll | USA Today Sports
Weekly results from the USA TODAY Sports NCAA Men’s College Basketball coaches poll, conducted weekly using a panel of head coaches at Division I schools.
sportsdata.usatoday.com
That, of course, is no excuse for how JB let the program slide at the end of his tenure.
He’s responsible for allowing that to happen, and people shoud be mad at him and the university for allowing JB to hijack the program. But finding ways to lump us in with BC, DePaul, Vandy and Georgia Tech to stoke outrage isn’t helpful. We’ve been mired in the middle of the pack in the ACC and that needs to change. Red knows what needs to be fixed and he’s doing everything in his power to make that happen.
hoopsupstate
Living Legend
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Red knows and he is the only person that matters. He doesn’t need our permission. He has a heck of a lot more insight than anyone else. The second guessing from fans who have no clue what Red is looking for.
Capt. Tuttle
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Free license to do so. Thanks.
RF2044
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It's great that you choose to subjectively interpret those seasons' outcomes through that lens.
But the thing about numbers / data is that they provide an objective measurement of performance that DOESN'T require subjective interpretation, or rationalized spin.
Which is why it isn't being a "glass half empty" person to point out that for the first 3/4 of JB's coaching career, he won ~74% of his games, versus 60% the last 10 years -- a precipitous decline. Those are objective facts.
It isn't being a bad fan to point out / express concern that:
- We've had 10+ losses for 8 years in a row -- including 3 years of 14 losses, 2 years of 15 losses, and 1 year with 17 losses
- SU has missed the NCAA tournament 6 out of the last 10 years
- We've only won 53% of our ACC conference games
- SU hasn't been ranked since 2019 -- a whopping 5 years
- In our 10 years in the ACC tournament:
- Our overall record is 5-9
- We lost our first game in the ACCT 5 times
- We’ve lost our first game 4 consecutive years in a row
- We’ve never won more than 1 game
- We’ve never even advanced to the semifinals of the ACCT
So yes, it was exciting to make the final four in 2016, as one of the lowest seeds ever to do so. And it was fun to defeat Michigan State in 2018, after barely qualifying for the tournament and being relegated to the play in game. And it was enjoyable to see Buddy go wild in the postseason in 2021, helping us squeak into the NCAAT at the 11th hour and knock off a higher seeded WVU team.
But those accomplishments don't invalidate the objective trends that were evident throughout those years [to say nothing of the years we missed the postseason entirely for a variety of reasons over these past 10 years] that indicated that the program was in decline, to the point where our new coach inherited a mess.
So -- at the risk of being incorrectly labeled as glass half empty or anti-JB -- I'll continue to maintain that only looking at program health through the lens of a handful of top highlight accomplishments while ignoring the data showing an escalating pattern of sustained decline was a poor way to evaluate the state of the program.
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SUFan44
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This is ridiculous.
The only reason we were ranked in either one of those polls is due to a miracle run each year.
The January 1 timeline makes a lot of sense - takes into account what you've done in non conference and isn't skewed towards bias from the prior year (like early season rankings are).
Objectively, we have been bad as it relates to our history. Need to be better. Period.
The only thing that matters is getting back to being a contender each year. From 1986-2014, except for a few years with the 1st probation we were a contender every year.
That was DC's 1st year, and that should be the standard for Syracuse, not barely getting in the tournament.
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Cusefan0307
Red recruits the ACC!
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We had 28, 34, 30, and 28 wins the first 4 years of the past decade. Success did not stop in 2010.
I actually do now. Red has known and respected this guy for a long time. This had zero to do with Leffew. As a matter of fact, The coach will not be in town for Leffew's visit this weekend. While this was out of the blue for me and for I guess, everyone else, it wasn't for Red. He knows the guy and respects the guy.
My mistake, but that should be our standard.
cuseincincy
All Conference
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I LOVE THIS HIRE! I've just a couple reasons:
- Red chose to hire him.
- How much it apparently irritates so many people.
BillSU
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You are right, no one knows the future. And you don’t know how well he will interact with the players at SU or coach them. But, I am going to give him a break because of his record with a D III team. Engelstad had a pretty fair start to coaching with Southern Vermont. To take over a team that was 1 – 24 and be 16 – 10 the next year, 25 – 4 the next year, 24 – 4 the year after and be selected Coach of the Year, tells me he, as a coach, is doing something right which includes communicating with your players. I don’t think Red would hire someone who didn’t know how to coach or has had seasons like the ones I listed.
Engelstad, a former assistant coach at the Mount under Milan Brown, spent five seasons at the helm of Southern Vermont College (SVC) in Bennington, Vermont, where he led a remarkable turnaround and helped carry the program to new heights. The Bethesda, Maryland native posted a 104-34 (.754) career record at SVC, was named the New England Collegiate Conference (NECC) Coach of the Year three times, and helped guide the program to a pair of NECC Championships, including the school’s first-ever title in 2016.
Engelstad took over at Southern Vermont following a 1-24 season, and guided SVC to one of the top turnarounds in the country in 2013-14. The Mountaineers, who finished the campaign at 16-10 overall, opened the season with a victory over nationally-ranked Williams College, and went on to win the Tri-State Tournament and finish fourth in the NECC, as they earned their first playoff berth since 2011.
The following year, Engelstad led the Mountaineers to a historic season as they finished with the best record in program history at 25-4 overall, and went a perfect 16-0 in NECC play. Engelstad earned his first of three NECC Coach of the Year Awards that season after guiding Southern Vermont to a regular season title and an appearance in the conference championship game. Although the Mountaineers lost in the NECC Championship game, they were invited to the Eastern College Athletic Conference (ECAC) Division III New England Tournament as the No. 1 seed, where they defeated Anna Maria and Fitchburg State to capture the school’s first-ever ECAC Championship in any sport. In addition to Engelstad earning coach of the year honors, he also saw his players collect the NECC Player of the Year (DeShawn Hamlet) and Rookie of the Year (Daemond Carter) Awards.
In 2015-16, Engelstad’s Mountaineers went 24-4 on the year and recorded their second straight undefeated record in conference play at 16-0, earning Engelstad Coach of the Year honors once again. Entering the conference tournament as the top-seed, SVC rolled past Regis College and Becker College to earn its first-ever NECC Championship and second berth to the Division III NCAA Tournament, where the Mountaineers were eventually edged by Tufts. Engelstad became the program’s all-time winningest coach during the season with a victory over Elms College on February 18.
During the 2016-17 campaign, SVC received weekly recognition in the NCAA Division III Northeast regional rankings and received votes for the national top-25 poll. Engelstad led the Mountaineers to their third consecutive Tri-State Shootout Tournament Championship during the regular season, and helped SVC reach the NECC Title game for the third straight season as well.
Engelstad guided the Mountaineers to another 20-plus win season in 2017-18 as they earned the No. 1 seed in the NECC Tournament for the fourth consecutive year. In the conference tournament, they topped Lesley College and Becker to capture the second NECC Title in program history, and Engelstad earned Coach of the Year honors for his third time in five seasons. In addition to his own personal honors, his players won two major awards as Mike Pierre was tabbed the NECC Player of the Year and Daemond Carter earned NECC Defensive Player of the Year honors.
cuseincincy
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Who was dropping these "logical, strategic hires"? The same people that had Jay Wright and Mark Few on the shortlist to replace JAB?
jncuse
I brought the Cocaine to the White House
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Comments of "Context Lacking" and "Goalpost Shifting" And then making the claim we were top 10 at the end of 2016, as if that has any context on how we were as a program that year or after 2018. Just seems off to me.
We have not been clearly into the NCAA tournament as of March 1, in any year since 2014. My list was merely a reflection of that. Perhaps the best stat would have been just pointing out the italicized. That 10 year stretch has hurt our brand. I think focusing on 2016 and 2018 tournaments is more lacking context.
I would have thought the people that argued "THE PROGRAM IS FINE!" after the 2016 and 2018 tournaments purely based on a few games, and argued against the real declining issues we were showing at the time (based on regular season play) would have reconsidered based on what happened after that from 2019-2023.
"JB let the problem slide at the end of his tenure". He led it slide from 2015 onwards (despite the few tourney successes in there). This wasn't just a post 2020 issue.
Now to be clear I put none of this on Adrian Autry. I think given all the circumstances he did a darn good job in 23/24. But the brand has taken a big hit the last 10 years, and that will hinder Autry to start.
Hopefully a few good years, and he can get the brand back up to par.
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FrancoPizza
2018 Iggy Leading Minutes Per Game Winner
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There was the monteverde guy and someone else whose name I can't remember, but there were clear reasons why you would take them to fit Red's vision.
If you look at Hubert Davis, Kevin Ollie, and Jon Scheyer, former players at their alumni school to become head coaches there is one distinct difference with Red. The difference is that Red had to work and prove himself as a coach elsewhere before coming back to Alma mater as an assistant on Boeheim’s staff.
Adrian Autry’s remarkable rise to being named Syracuse’s new basketball coach
Syracuse announced Adrian Autry will take over as head coach of the men's basketball program.
The guy is very well connected.
two3zone
RIP Shark58
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I liked it when it was being decided if we were a 2/3/4 seed.
Now we give flowers to trash players who did nothing here and leave. There's a reason we stunk.
Yes, he had to work, and he certainly did. Like Jerry had to work. This is the reason why Red did so well last year.If you look at Hubert Davis, Kevin Ollie, and Jon Scheyer, former players at their alumni school to become head coaches there is one distinct difference with Red. The difference is that Red had to work and prove himself as a coach elsewhere before coming back to Alma mater as an assistant on Boeheim’s staff.
Adrian Autry’s remarkable rise to being named Syracuse’s new basketball coach
Syracuse announced Adrian Autry will take over as head coach of the men's basketball program.www.syracuse.com
The guy is very well connected.
