New Assistant: Dan Engelstad [Official]

[RF2044]

Appreciate this, but here are more facts.

- Ultimately, the goal is to compete for a national title. Despite us winning only once, having a top 4 seed makes you a legitimate contender most years. We have not been a top 4 seed since the 2014 tournament.
- There have been exactly 1 team to win the championship as an 8 seed or worse. We have been a #8 seed or better exactly once in the last 10 NCAA Tournaments (2019 - 8 seed).
- There have been exactly 7 teams to make the final four as a 10 or 11 seed since the field expanded since 1985. That's 7 times in nearly 40 years. Not very likely.
- Prior to 2014-15 (again, 10 season span), we had 10 seasons of 10+ losses in 40 years -- since 1983-84. From 2014-15 to present, we have had 10 loss seasons each year.
- Additionally, our winning percentage each of those years was sub .650 every single time - including sub .600 6 times. In the 10 years that we had 10 losses in that 40 year span, our winning percentage was: .750, .737, .600, .686, .657, .639, .636, .594, .667, .688. Meaning just ONCE -- 1996-97, when Winfred Walton (RIP) was ineligible and we had a historically young team - did we not have a .600+ winning percentage. That has happened SIX times in 10 years.

It has been a decade of mediocrity. And historic mediocrity at that. If you are telling us that Jim Boeheim was responsible for this, and we should temper expectations of consistent winning at that level, I would retort "Why?". We are resourced to win at a high level.

The demise is not exaggerated. We have been historically bad comparative to our program's history. And we have been average at best for a decade in a league that has, for the most part, been relatively mediocre as well.

I am hopeful Autry gets this rolling. But do not downplay how bad the last 10 years have been. 2-3 runs in the NCAA Tournament don't change anything.

Great post.

And to what you outlined, I'd add that a few postseason runs mask / cloud the way that many perceive the generally subpar performance a couple of those seasons. In particular, there are at least three teams that barely made the NCAA tournament that went on post-season runs that far outshot their seeding.

For many fans / posters, the "fun" / positivity of those postseason runs has supplanted the frustration of the 13+ loss season that preceded it.

 

[qdawgg]

Teams in those lower level conferences usually have a lot of OOC loses. He did make the NCAAT with them.

It’s easy to look up his conference record too…..

 

[Cheriehoop]

Cherie we haven’t been nationally relevant since Ennis. Regular season metrics back that up. I want to enjoy SU basketball throughout the season and not hope we’re on the right side of the bubble when lightning strikes.

Well not good but the last season we were ranked in the top 25 was December of 2018, not 2014 whatever. Go ahead just wallow in negativity, it really helps.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Hemming and hawing about what a former mid/low majors coach record is probably isn't the best way to judge this hire. Pitino has Steve Masiello on the bench with him and like our guy he was under .500 in the MAAC.

The funny thing is people here would have been fine hiring Mike Boynton who was barely over .500 at a high major with legit talent on his roster. The guy who had worse talent probably is a better coach of basketball than a guy who collected talent and didn't win sht.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Well not good but the last season we were ranked in the top 25 was December of 2018, not 2014 whatever. Go ahead just wallow in negativity, it really helps.

I think at some point everyone looks at the big picture and starts doubting if we will ever be relevant again like we once were. Some just take longer to get there.

I don’t get the 2018 reference. That was all preaseason hype because we returned all 5 starters. We were out of the polls by January. It was smoke and mirrors and another disappointing regular season by pretty much everyone’s standards. Regular season success is still the best predictor of postseason success.

Good for you that you’re hanging on… seriously… because if the time comes that you fold, it means our goose really is cooked.

 

[SUFan44]

Well not good but the last season we were ranked in the top 25 was December of 2018, not 2014 whatever. Go ahead just wallow in negativity, it really helps.

Ok - let's take a look at the instances where we were ranked nationally since 2014.

2018-19
Top 15 preseason with Tyus Battle coming back, along with virtually our entire team after a Sweet 16 run.

Lose to UConn, who finished 16-17 that year, at the Garden. Then lose the next night to a good Oregon team in a game that wasn't competitive. Fall out of Top 25.

Bounce back to beat Ohio State - who at the time was ranked but ended up 20-15 and an 11 seed. Return to #25 rank.

Proceed to lose to Old Dominion & Buffalo, at home. Both NCAA Tournament teams, but Old Dominion specifically, a game we should win. Not ranked the rest of the year, and really only get into the tournament as an 8 seed due to the road win at Duke.

2016-17
Ranked early in the season. Progressively got worse throughout - lose 5 non-conference games, including 33 point debacle to St. John's, who finished 14-19. Did nothing to be worthy of a ranking other than being ranked preseason due to Final Four run the year before.

2015-16
Unranked to start season - enter rankings at #14 due to a magical run in Atlantis where we beat UConn & Texas A&M, who were ranked at the time. UConn ended up as a 9 seed in the tournament - Texas A&M a 3 seed. Probably our best win on paper. Then after becoming ranked, proceed to lose 3 of next 4 including a game to a TERRIBLE St. John's team (8-24 that season). Go unranked the rest of the year.

2014-15
Similar to 2016-17, start season unranked and do nothing to show that we're worthy. Lose to an average Cal team at MSG, fall out of the rankings and stay unranked the rest of the year.

We have done very little to deserve national rankings over the last 10 years.

 

[Cusefan0307]

We’ve had years to eulogize the last years of JB’s tenure. It has ZERO to do with Reds coaching hire or how red runs things. Tiring that people try to tie the end to Red.

 

[CuseFTW]

Well not good but the last season we were ranked in the top 25 was December of 2018, not 2014 whatever. Go ahead just wallow in negativity, it really helps.

We were ranked in 2018 after beating Eastern Washington and Morehead State the first two games of the year. We followed that up with two losses to UConn and Oregon and were bounced from the rankings.

I wouldn't exactly call that nationally relevant.

 

[SUFan44]

We’ve had years to eulogize the last years of JB’s tenure. It has ZERO to do with Reds coaching hire or how red runs things. Tiring that people try to tie the end to Red.

I don't think that's the case at all, in my posts at least. It was stated that the range of sub-par play has been extended beyond what is factual. I am simply arguing against that. This program has been average at best for a decade.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I don't think that's the case at all, in my posts at least. It was stated that the range of sub-par play has been extended beyond what is factual. I am simply arguing against that. This program has been average at best for a decade.

Apologies, I wasn't calling you out specifically. It usually ends up getting tied to Red and questioning xyz decision he made because he was JB's assistant HC at the end.

The ending obviously sucked. I think everyone can agree. Whether someone thinks it was 2, 7 or 10 years can get subjective and ultimately it just goes on and on and never ends. At some point we all need to move on and HOPEFULLY most fans give Red a legit chance.

 

[miamicuse]

But there's a warm fart blowing the stars around
And I'd really love to portal tonight

 

[Orangezoo]

Hemming and hawing about what a former mid/low majors coach record is probably isn't the best way to judge this hire. Pitino has Steve Masiello on the bench with him and like our guy he was under .500 in the MAAC.

The funny thing is people here would have been fine hiring Mike Boynton who was barely over .500 at a high major with legit talent on his roster. The guy who had worse talent probably is a better coach of basketball than a guy who collected talent and didn't win sht.

I would also add as a single example with the views on Leffew as a player aside I’d also say a kid willing to play with his former coach after already heading into the portal presents a positive look for both coach and player.

 

[Bulldog04]

Will Red pull the trigger on a summer trip? Seems like an excellent off-season for it.

There was one planned last year to Israel but it got canned due to safety precautions. We’ll see what happens this year

 

[Toga]

UNTIL WE MEET AGAIN.

Yeah, you're not ever meeting again.

Unless it's like Louie DePalma going to his high school reunion.

 

[cusefan88]

There was one planned last year to Israel but it got canned due to safety precautions. We’ll see what happens this year

I think the Ennis team went to Canada IIRC. Not the worst backup plan...

 

[DBCooper]

Great post.

And to what you outlined, I'd add that a few postseason runs mask / cloud the way that many perceive the generally subpar performance a couple of those seasons. In particular, there are at least three teams that barely made the NCAA tournament that went on post-season runs that far outshot their seeding.

For many fans / posters, the "fun" / positivity of those postseason runs has supplanted the frustration of the 13+ loss season that preceded it.

Likewise, I am sure that for some, the post-season runs that that far outshot their seeding did not bring enough enjoyment to make up for the eternal misery they will feel over the regular seasons that preceded them.

 

[RF2044]

Likewise, I am sure that for some, the post-season runs that that far outshot their seeding did not bring enough enjoyment to make up for the eternal misery they will feel over the regular seasons that preceded them.

Sorry, DB -- math doesn't lie, no matter what some would like to pretend. It doesn't take much intellectual honesty to recognize the precipitous decline in winning percentage over the last 8 years.

One year A.B., we can safely lump posters into a couple of categories:

1. The see no evil / speak no evil / hear no evil crowd, afraid that acknowledging the decline aloud impugns their fandom / their support of JB
2. Those who enjoyed the highs, but acknowledge the lows
3. Anti-JB detractors

Every SU fan was ecstatic about those runs. Those outcomes don't change the circumstances that saw our program slip from our previous place as a top five overall program in terms of wins to a team that was barely about 55% winning percentage for an extended period of time, lasting nearly a decade.

I'm tired of posters trying to characterize people who fall into category #2 above into category #3.

Time for more reflective intellectual honesty.

 

[50YRsofCuse]

I would also add as a single example with the views on Leffew as a player aside I’d also say a kid willing to play with his former coach after already heading into the portal presents a positive look for both coach and player.

Not sure this is a given …..yet.

Also wondering what the plan B and/or C is for the point guard position. Do not believe that we are going with just one pg from the portal. Makes the position a single point of failure if he gets hurt.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

Apologies, I wasn't calling you out specifically. It usually ends up getting tied to Red and questioning xyz decision he made because he was JB's assistant HC at the end.

The ending obviously sucked. I think everyone can agree. Whether someone thinks it was 2, 7 or 10 years can get subjective and ultimately it just goes on and on and never ends. At some point we all need to move on and HOPEFULLY most fans give Red a legit chance.

Dan Engelstad people, OR I SHUT THIS DOWN!!

lmao, I always wanted to do that

 

[Sherman20]

Great post.

And to what you outlined, I'd add that a few postseason runs mask / cloud the way that many perceive the generally subpar performance a couple of those seasons. In particular, there are at least three teams that barely made the NCAA tournament that went on post-season runs that far outshot their seeding.

For many fans / posters, the "fun" / positivity of those postseason runs has supplanted the frustration of the 13+ loss season that preceded it.

Respectfully disagree. You never take for granted or dismiss runs in March Madness. Yes, some of those regular seasons were subpar compared to Cuse/JB history and JB let the program decline on his watch, especially when it came to roster construction, but post season success and March Madness is ultimately what matters. Every program is trying to have success in March and make Final Fours.

 

[mayselc]

Good ’in grief. :-((

I don't think he's bringing the team with him.

 

[sutomcat]

I think the Ennis team went to Canada IIRC. Not the worst backup plan...

That trip was great because it gave SU fans in upstate NY an option to make easy road trips to Canada to see the team play in the summer. I went with my family to a game in Ottawa. I think it was just under 3 hours to get there and it is a nice city with a lot to do there.

If they go again, might be good to play in or near Toronto too. That appears to be the epicentre (see what I did there Canadians?) of basketball in Canada. Might be good for recruiting. It would be nice to give some of us fans a good excuse to visit Toronto again too.

And last time, some of the games played in Canada were televised on local TV, which was awesome and would be again, if this is possible.

 

[FrancoPizza]

I would also add as a single example with the views on Leffew as a player aside I’d also say a kid willing to play with his former coach after already heading into the portal presents a positive look for both coach and player.

Or it could be viewed that leffew would only come here if we hired his coach. I would say that is the prevailing theory that comes to mind. Too much of a coincidence.

 

[DBCooper]

Sorry, DB -- math doesn't lie, no matter what some would like to pretend. It doesn't take much intellectual honesty to recognize the precipitous decline in winning percentage over the last 8 years.

One year A.B., we can safely lump posters into a couple of categories:

1. The see no evil / speak no evil / hear no evil crowd, afraid that acknowledging the decline aloud impugns their fandom / their support of JB
2. Those who enjoyed the highs, but acknowledge the lows
3. Anti-JB detractors

Every SU fan was ecstatic about those runs. Those outcomes don't change the circumstances that saw our program slip from our previous place as a top five overall program in terms of wins to a team that was barely about 55% winning percentage for an extended period of time, lasting nearly a decade.

I'm tired of posters trying to characterize people who fall into category #2 above into category #3.

Time for more reflective intellectual honesty.

No need to apologize. Some people are glass half empty people. Nothing wrong with that. Reflective intellectual honesty reveals that there is more nuance than your three simple categories listed above. The vast majority of people would fit into category 2. Most SU fans were disappointed by the drop off in performance during the regular season over the last decade. Those outcomes don't change the circumstances that saw our program make tournament runs on multiple occasions during that time frame. I'm tired of posters trying to categorize people who fall into category 2 into category 1.

I don't think our positions on the last ten yeas are actually that far apart. But I don't see the tournament runs as masking or clouding the problems of the regular season, I see them as overcoming the problems of the regular season.

I'm hoping that we can get back to where we were 10 -15 years ago, and I'm hoping Mr. Englestad can help us get there.

 

[Maxsumm]

I'm not talking 'bout moving in
And I don't want to change your life
But there's a snow storm up on the Hill again
And I'd really love a three seed tonight

Same thought when I saw the name maybe he’ll bring his top assistant with him ?