Next year's starting 4: CMcC or Roberson?

[SaltLakeOrange]

Not really. I mean I see your point but unless it's against a giant frontline like maybe UNC - and can't really think of any others like that in the ACC, he's most capable on the wing of the zone.

Watch the rest of the season. He is consistently getting bodied off the ball on D. It's happened the last there games...we both agree of his value, I just think he'd be better at the top of the zone...

 

[TheCusian]

Because of the last two years.

Oh, right. I didn't factor in his injury! I must not have been aware of that!

OR maybe we should wait and see before not factoring him in.

 

[TBCuse11]

Neither one is a wing player or has a handle. Neither one is close to a small forward. They are both 4 offensively speaking. I see court spacing being a big problem with both in the game at the same time just like it was this year when they were in together.

What about this lineup:

Cooney, Richardson, G, Roberson, Chris Mac at center

G plays the point forward again

It's just an idea, doubt it happens

Could not disagree more. Both are 4s? Not close. They both spend the VAST majority of their time 15 feet out. Rick Jackson was a 4. Either way, moot point.
G will be starting at the 3 next year without question. Chris will start and spell our center. Roberson will come off the pine.

 

[PhatOrange]

imho Roberson should kill himself learning how to excell at dribble/drive and playing a face up game. He could be a great 3 man, and I have no doubt he can start extending his shooting range.. Our team would be better next year with Mc at the 4, Roberson at the 3 and GBinje/Cooney at guard.

I don't see how Roberson comes off the bench next year as a junior. The kid is ready to explode.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Because of the last two years.

Last three years, actually. He's had knee problems for 3 years in a row now.

 

[Eagles20]

Could not disagree more. Both are 4s? Not close. They both spend the VAST majority of their time 15 feet out. Rick Jackson was a 4. Either way, moot point.
G will be starting at the 3 next year without question. Chris will start and spell our center. Roberson will come off the pine.

Well when they were in the game together this year neither one was able to come out to the wing to receive a pass and do something to put any pressure on the defense. They both are more comfortbale operating 15 feet and in. You have them on the court at the same time and you have 3 players with the center included all who can't excel with the ball 15 feet and out. That is a huge log jam around the paint and terrible for spacing. I don't see how that's hard to see really. Other than roberson catching the ball and then passing it outside of 15 feet he has no dribble game. It's the same with chris, he can shoot outside of 15 feet but is not a threat to put it on the floor from that far out. This is why G went from the 6 man to starting SF. You need another wing player who is versatile to help with ball handling responsibilities and is also a threat to score outside of 15 feet. G can shoot the 3 and also slash to the hoop from the outside.

 

[TBCuse11]

imho Roberson should kill himself learning how to excell at dribble/drive and playing a face up game. He could be a great 3 man, and I have no doubt he can start extending his shooting range.. Our team would be better next year with Mc at the 4, Roberson at the 3 and GBinje/Cooney at guard.

I don't see how Roberson comes off the bench next year as a junior. The kid is ready to explode.

he will not be starting over Chris. And G will not be op top in the zone. Jim doesnt do it that way. Only chance Roberson has to start is if Chris is the center (which means no Bryant and no DC2)

 

[jordoo]

he will not be starting over Chris. And G will not be op top in the zone. Jim doesnt do it that way. Only chance Roberson has to start is if Chris is the center (which means no Bryant and no DC2)

I have to agree with this. If Chris comes back he starts just like Cooney, Mike and Kaleb will be. Now if Tyler continues to improve Chris will need to play well to keep his minutes (not necessarily his starting spot) but he would be the starter IMO. I'm not sure JB would start Chris at the 5 no matter what the center situation is. I could see him sliding over to be the backup center depending on the center situation. Chris showed decent instincts in the middle at times he just lacked the bulk for extended minutes there IMO.

 

[bpo57]

he will not be starting over Chris. And G will not be op top in the zone. Jim doesnt do it that way. Only chance Roberson has to start is if Chris is the center (which means no Bryant and no DC2)

If Roberson keeps grabbing double figure rebounds then there ain't no way in hell he'll be coming off the bench. Not to mention that he has plenty of offensive potential. If Roberson is put on the bench that would be coaching malpractice. Here is a kid ready to explode and just needs two things: 1) further development of his offensive game (shot/drive/handle) and 2) confidence. The latter would be severely impacted if he is relegated to the bench. G is the one that should come off the bench because he is very versatile and can fill different roles. Plus Roberson just has a lot more upside than G imo.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

If McCullough didnt get hurt, Roberson would be riding the pine the vast majority of the time. If McCullough comes back, either both will start or Chris will start. Theres no way Roberson starts and Chris doesn't.

 

[SaltLakeOrange]

I really don't see how TR could come off the bench if he keeps rebounding like this. But the real wildcard from Tyler is the 8-12 foot jumper. If he keeps improving on this he becomes a real treat at the 3...if that happens the conversation changes to MG off the bench as the 6th man playing the point...I think this is what will happen...

 

[two3zone]

I really don't see how TR could come off the bench if he keeps rebounding like this. But the real wildcard from Tyler is the 8-12 foot jumper. If he keeps improving on this he becomes a real treat at the 3...if that happens the conversation changes to MG off the bench as the 6th man playing the point...I think this is what will happen...

I get what you're saying about it being difficult to keep Roberson on the bench, but the same can be said for McCullough. Coming in, the best prospect since Melo, a year later he is on the bench. That's not good.

 

[reedny]

Neither one is a wing player or has a handle. Neither one is close to a small forward. They are both 4 offensively speaking. I see court spacing being a big problem with both in the game at the same time just like it was this year when they were in together.

What about this lineup:

Cooney, Richardson, G, Roberson, Chris Mac at center

G plays the point forward again

It's just an idea, doubt it happens

"It's just an idea, doubt it happens."

Exactly what everyone's been telling you.

 

[reedny]

imho Roberson should kill himself learning how to excell at dribble/drive and playing a face up game. He could be a great 3 man, and I have no doubt he can start extending his shooting range.. Our team would be better next year with Mc at the 4, Roberson at the 3 and GBinje/Cooney at guard.

I don't see how Roberson comes off the bench next year as a junior. The kid is ready to explode.

Agree. All he needs to do is develop a little more confidence in his shot and be aggressive off the bounce and he'll be a great SF for us who can occasionally fill in at PF against smaller/faster lineups. He's got good mechanics and he'll be a good weak-side rebounder to help the bigs inside. It's nice having him help at the 4 this year with Chris out ... but we get smaller inside and are not as effectively defensively without a second big. It's pretty obvious that when Chris comes back the experiment's over.

 

[reedny]

I really don't see how TR could come off the bench if he keeps rebounding like this. But the real wildcard from Tyler is the 8-12 foot jumper. If he keeps improving on this he becomes a real treat at the 3...if that happens the conversation changes to MG off the bench as the 6th man playing the point...I think this is what will happen...

Agree. All he needs to do is develop a little more confidence in his shot and be aggressive off the bounce and he'll be a great SF for us who can occasionally fill in at PF against smaller/faster lineups. He's got good mechanics and he'll be a good weak-side rebounder to help the bigs inside. It's nice having him help at the 4 this year with Chris out ... but we get smaller inside and are not as effective defensively without a second big. It's pretty obvious that when Chris comes back the experiment's over.

 

[reedny]

If Roberson keeps grabbing double figure rebounds then there ain't no way in hell he'll be coming off the bench. Not to mention that he has plenty of offensive potential. If Roberson is put on the bench that would be coaching malpractice. Here is a kid ready to explode and just needs two things: 1) further development of his offensive game (shot/drive/handle) and 2) confidence. The latter would be severely impacted if he is relegated to the bench. G is the one that should come off the bench because he is very versatile and can fill different roles. Plus Roberson just has a lot more upside than G imo.

All true, which is why I think CM comes back and starts at PF and TR will start at the 3 with G coming off the bench as the 6th man (he can also rotate in at either guards spot).

 

[Eagles20]

"It's just an idea, doubt it happens."

Exactly what everyone's been telling you.

I,doubt it happens not because I don't necessary think it won't be effective. I doubt it happens because of how our coach has been doing things for all these years. He tried the coleman and christmas in the starting 5 to start a season then one was subbed out in the first 3 or 4 minutes consistently. I wonder why? Couldn't have been because offensively they were both 5 and it was terrible for spacing or because neither one could play the wing in the zone.

You want to start two guys who can't play with the ball outside 15 feet unless it's to catch and pass. Neither one has the dribble game or jump shot to be effective as a small forward offensively. You can keep disagreeing, but even the coach this year stated neither one has the offensive game right now to be a small forward. I wonder why G kept starting at the 3 when roberson came back from injury? I feel like you are basing TR as a three just based on his height. I'm trying to base his position based on skill set.

We play a zone on defense so it doesn't matter who is the 3 or 4 defensively...they both have the same responsibilities as wings in the zone.

 

[Eagles20]

Also,

When it comes to skill set, I'd say based on both chris and TR..offensively speaking chris is closer to being a 3 than TR is. TR is so uncomfortnale when he catches the ball outside of 15 feet his first thought is to pump fake twice and then pass. chris has the talent to be a 3 and has made some dribble moves from outside of 15 feet, he just needs to get stronger to fight through the contact once he gets to the basket to finish. I think with developement he can be a option at the 3 offensively next year. TR has shown to be way more comfortbale at around the foul line, either catching and shooting( it will fall consistently with more practice) or making the pass in the high/low. He seems comfortable with two dribbles from that spot as well. Doesn't seem comfortbale having to dribble more than that when trying to get to the basket. TR in my opinion is a good undersized power forward skill set wise right now. Maybe he will really improve his ball skills over the summer.

 

[realorange]

By December, if Coleman is healthy, it will be him, Chris, TR, Cooney and Joseph with G off the bench(starter minutes). No freshman starters based on what we can see at this point. Chris may not start early because he will just be coming off rehab at that point.
Joseph is our only true PG so I don't see him sitting and waiting. JB has spent too much time and patience this year for that to happen.

 

[two3zone]

By December, if Coleman is healthy, it will be him, Chris, TR, Cooney and Joseph with G off the bench(starter minutes). No freshman starters based on what we can see at this point. Chris may not start early because he will just be coming off rehab at that point.

If Chris is coming off rehab and wouldn't start because of it no way DC2 starts and plays after three straight years of knee injuries and almost two years of not playing in competitive action.

 

[reedny]

I,doubt it happens not because I don't necessary think it won't be effective. I doubt it happens because of how our coach has been doing things for all these years. He tried the coleman and christmas in the starting 5 to start a season then one was subbed out in the first 3 or 4 minutes consistently. I wonder why? Couldn't have been because offensively they were both 5 and it was terrible for spacing or because neither one could play the wing in the zone.

You want to start two guys who can't play with the ball outside 15 feet unless it's to catch and pass. Neither one has the dribble game or jump shot to be effective as a small forward offensively. You can keep disagreeing, but even the coach this year stated neither one has the offensive game right now to be a small forward. I wonder why G kept starting at the 3 when roberson came back from injury? I feel like you are basing TR as a three just based on his height. I'm trying to base his position based on skill set.

We play a zone on defense so it doesn't matter who is the 3 or 4 defensively...they both have the same responsibilities as wings in the zone.

Hard to know where to start here, but:

1- "offensively they were both 5" ... umm, no. CM is a stretch 4 at the college level. He's tall enough to slide over to play the 5, but at 230 or so pounds, it's an uphill battle for him in that spot. As a PF, he can block shots and finish over size at the rim. His face-up game is less developed than his post game ... but he has both (unlike TR) and both will improve. He's a classic, long PF in JB's system, which is why he's playing in that spot, just as Ricky and Hak did and Coleman years ago. He has an outside shot, but so what. So does Rak, doesn't mean he's a SF. So not sure where you're going with this except to criticize JB.

2- "You want to start two guys who can't play with the ball outside 15 feet unless it's to catch and pass". This is wrong, again, as to both players. Right now, TR doesn't have an outside game. It's a WIP, and when it arrives, he'll be an excellent SF for us. The only reason he's playing inside is that CM is hurt. As far as CM, I'm not sure if you've been watching the team play, but he has an outside shot, and has taken and made at least one 3 this year (although that's not his primary role with the team). And before injury he shot regularly (and had the green light from JB to shoot) from 12-17 feet. That doesn't change the fact that he's 6'10 and is, by far, best suited to play PF for us. Sure, he can play C in a pinch against smaller teams, just as Tyler can play the 4 in a pinch. But not when we're playing better/bigger teams ... as most of us have already seen.

3- If you want to see where JB would play TR and CM, just RW your DVR back to the first 8 games, and you can see where they fit. Yes G started at the 3 when Tyler was out a couple games. Does that surprise you? G's also a SF. But neither he nor TR belongs in the trenches fighting on the glass with Kennedy Meeks, or Montrazel Harrell, etc, etc, etc...

 

[rosconey]

if you can have 3-4 combo guards -What not 2-3 combo forwards - coleman mc and roby all in at once could be very interesting

 

[AZOrange]

Roberson or McCullough at the 4? Hmmm . . . that is the hoops version of a first world problem

I'm still not convinced that it couldn't ge tyler at the 4 and Cmac at the 3

 

[Eagles20]

Hard to know where to start here, but:

1- "offensively they were both 5" ... umm, no. CM is a stretch 4 at the college level. He's tall enough to slide over to play the 5, but at 230 or so pounds, it's an uphill battle for him in that spot. As a PF, he can block shots and finish over size at the rim. His face-up game is less developed than his post game ... but he has both (unlike TR) and both will improve. He's a classic, long PF in JB's system, which is why he's playing in that spot, just as Hak did and Coleman years ago. He has an outside shot, but so what. So does Rak, doesn't mean he's a SF. So not sure where you're going with this except to criticize JB.

2- "You want to start two guys who can't play with the ball outside 15 feet unless it's to catch and pass". This is wrong, again, as to both players. Right now, TR doesn't have an outside game. It's a WIP, and when it arrives, he'll be an excellent SF for us. The only reason he's playing inside is that CM is hurt. As far as CM, I'm not sure if you've been watching the team play, but he has an outside shot, and has taken and made at least one 3 this year (although that's not his primary role with the team). And before injury he shot regularly (and had the green light from JB to shoot) from 12-17 feet. That doesn't change the fact that he's 6'10 and is, by far, best suited to play PF for us. Sure, he can play C in a pinch against smaller teams, just as Tyler can play the 4 in a pinch. But not when we're playing better/bigger teams ... as most of us have already seen.

3- If you want to see where JB would play TR and CM, just RW your DVR back to the first 8 games, and you can see where they fit. Yes G started at the 3 when Tyler was out a couple games. Does that surprise you? G's also a SF. But neither he nor TR belongs in the trenches fighting on the glass with Kennedy Meeks, or Montrazel Harrell, etc, etc, etc...

Offensively they were both 5... I was speaking of coleman and christmas when they started together. Seemed pretty obvious since the whole first paragraph was about trying to play a player out of his strength. Correlation would be starting chrs and roberson together.

CM has a post game? I havnt seen that much of a post game from him. He got pushed so far out usually he didn't have a chance to show a drop step or post hook shot. He took and made range jump shot usually within 15 feet. I love how you had to add up to 17 feet like 2 more steps proves your point. I also said I think he has the skill set to play as more of a small forward than TR does right now.


You keep bringing up the UNC game. You do realize there are not many front lines in college basketball that has that right? I guess we need to recruit better size then so we can fight in the trenches. Roberson has proven to be an aggressive rebounder and you point to one game. Chris would have got demolished even worse against that size. He's proven to be much weaker than TR and doesn't have the motor of TR on the glass. Just cause TR is a undersized PF doesn't mean he can't be effective. You keep wanting to force him to be small forward because of his stature. His skill set is best suited for the PF spot in JB offense.

No it doesn't surprise me G starts at small forward. Hes the best small forward and maybe only one on the roster. I will say this again...JB has already said spacing was not good when he started chris and TR because they both play in similair spots. Just listen to what he has already explained to you. That's why they were not on the court together much before chris got hurt and after Tyler came back. He stuck with G as the small forward. Why did he do that and not go back to,starting chris and TR together?

 

[reedny]

Offensively they were both 5... I was speaking of coleman and christmas when they started together. Seemed pretty obvious since the whole first paragraph was about trying to play a player out of his strength. Correlation would be starting chrs and roberson together.

CM has a post game? I havnt seen that much of a post game from him. He got pushed so far out usually he didn't have a chance to show a drop step or post hook shot. He took and made range jump shot usually within 15 feet. I love how you had to add up to 17 feet like 2 more steps proves your point. I also said I think he has the skill set to play as more of a small forward than TR does right now.


You keep bringing up the UNC game. You do realize there are not many front lines in college basketball that has that right? I guess we need to recruit better size then so we can fight in the trenches. Roberson has proven to be an aggressive rebounder and you point to one game. Chris would have got demolished even worse against that size. He's proven to be much weaker than TR and doesn't have the motor of TR on the glass. Just cause TR is a undersized PF doesn't mean he can't be effective. You keep wanting to force him to be small forward because of his stature. His skill set is best suited for the PF spot in JB offense.

No it doesn't surprise me G starts at small forward. Hes the best small forward and maybe only one on the roster. I will say this again...JB has already said spacing was not good when he started chris and TR because they both play in similair spots. Just listen to what he has already explained to you. That's why they were not on the court together much before chris got hurt and after Tyler came back. He stuck with G as the small forward. Why did he do that and not go back to,starting chris and TR together?

I didn't bring up UNC in this post, you did. And if CM's getting "pushed so far out usually he do[es]n't have a chance to show a drop step", then why in the world would you spend your superbowl sunday arguing that JB should put a guy in the same spot who: 1) has no post game at all; 2) probably never will have a post game (b/c he's a SF); 3) is 2-3 inches shorter; and 4) is about 20 pounds lighter. Honestly, why are you wasting your time (and mine) pretending that a 6-7 200 pound kid, who's a good rebounder for his size but can't finish over size inside and has no low post game at all, should replace talented 6'10 230 pound kid as our starting PF?

Tyler's helping out in a pinch. That's it. Get over it. You're grasping at straws because Roberson's jumper has no range (yet). When it does, and C-Mac starts dominating inside, this will all come together for you. For now, enjoy your football.