Next year's starting 4: CMcC or Roberson?

[Eagles20]

Tyler is playing power forward now and doesn't post up. Why would he have to post up next year as the power forward? Coleman most likely will be starting at center and will be the post player and Tyler will continue to work as the guy who catches at about 15 feet out and work the high low with coleman like he is doing with RAK this year. It's better court spacing and having two guys post up at once doesn't give either guy much room to operate. Like I said he is comfortbale catching at around the foul line and has shown to be a good passer from there. He's also appears to be better with one or two dribbles when driving. Can you explain to me other than his size what skills he has shown to be a small forward in Syracuse's offense?

I think they are both power forwards ultimately, and it seemed like JB realized this too when he started playing g as the small forward and kept him there. I'm not totally sure that both chris and Tyler with coleman in the game can all be effective based on where they are most effective. I think you need another guy who can handle the ball from the wing and be a bit of a slasher. Maybe over the summer chris or Tyler can improve in that area. I think chris has the head start in becoming more of an outside player/slasher and can continue to improve those skills. I just feel like Tyler is an undersized PF skills wise...we can agree to disagree on this. It's ok to have different opinions.

You seem like a guy who just bases everything on height in determining someone's position and not how they can be most effective with your team. A good coach puts a player in a position to succeed and help his team win. If Tyler is better playing power forward in his offense and better from 15 feet in ,why would you take him out of his comfort zone next year. Continue to work on improving his skills..mid range jumper, passer, and dribble moves from the high post of baseline. It's like you would have taken carter Williams and made him something other than a pg because he was tall.

You brought UNC up a ton in explaing why Tyler can't play the power forward.


I didn't t watch the Super Bowl and havnt since Mcnabb left the Eagles. I did watch the replay of the waste management open tho.

 

[Eagles20]

I didn't bring up UNC in this post, you did. And if CM's getting "pushed so far out usually he do[es]n't have a chance to show a drop step", then why in the world would you spend your superbowl sunday arguing that JB should put a guy in the same spot who: 1) has no post game at all; 2) probably never will have a post game (b/c he's a SF); 3) is 2-3 inches shorter; and 4) is about 20 pounds lighter. Honestly, why are you wasting your time (and mine) pretending that a 6-7 200 pound kid, who's a good rebounder for his size but can't finish over size inside and has no low post game at all, should replace talented 6'10 230 pound kid as our starting PF?

Tyler's helping out in a pinch. That's it. Get over it. You're grasping at straws because Roberson's jumper has no range (yet). When it does, and C-Mac starts dominating inside, this will all come together for you. For now, enjoy your football. Maybe that's a game you understand.

And I don't appreciate your last comment...everything I have said has made sense. I played college basketball. Their are many ways to win ball games. Don't act like your opinion is gold and infallible. A lot of the crap you have said isn't based at all on skill set but primary based on well he's too short for this postion. I have no idea why Charles barkleys coach didn't play him at small forward. He was obviously too short to play power forward. I also can't beleive Kevin durant wasn't turned into a power forward considering he's 6'10. Why the heck is he playing small forward. It was their skill set that made them what they are and what position they play.

 

[reedny]

And I don't appreciate your last comment...everything I have said has made sense. I played college basketball. Their are many ways to win ball games. Don't act like your opinion is gold and infallible. A lot of the crap you have said isn't based at all on skill set but primary based on well he's too short for this postion. I have no idea why Charles barkleys coach didn't play him at small forward. He was obviously too short to play power forward. I also can't beleive Kevin durant wasn't turned into a power forward considering he's 6'10. Why the heck is he playing small forward. It was their skill set that made them what they are and what position they play.

Comment removed. As to your reference to the round mound of rebound, obviously it's not just the height, it's the weight, as well, for rebounding. There are many examples of this in the OBE, and some this year. Jerome Lane was a pretty good rebounder at only 6'6 -- but he was 230 -240 and a beast. So was Shane Behanon ... both had the muscle to play PF even though they were "undersized" in height. You saw what Mitchell did from G-Tech, early this year. Kid is just slightly taller than Tyler, but goes 270. No surprise, he had 11 rebounds (TR had 4). We went -10 on the glass and barely got out of there with a 1 point win, thanks to Rak. Then there's the shot-blocking: TR basically gives us none (averaging a half a block per game). CM averaged 2. Since you played "college" ball, I assume you recognize the difference. And I assume that you can figure out that it's better to have two guys that can post up, rather than one, because it makes it easier to get the ball inside without having to wait for the the post player to keep switching with ball reversal to stay on the strong side. And I'm sure you also recognize that it's much easier for a 6'10" player to get tip-ins/put-backs than a 6-7/6-8 200 pound guy, as it is for the bigger player to score with a baby hook or drop step (which we've seen from CM but never TR).

And when we face the big teams we're headed for down the stretch (no, it's not just UNC), these differences are going to show up again and again. Pitt's going to throw Uchebo and Young (6-10/6-9) at us, and Louisville is going to have Onuaku and Harrell, and Notre Dame is going to have Auguste and Burgett ... it's goes on an on. And in pretty much every case TR is undersized to compete on the glass, and we're going to go -10 or -15 on the boards ... usually a sure-fired recipe' for loosing unless your team is efficient offensively with a deep bench (we have neither).

So for about the 10th time, other than smallish teams, mostly OOC or the bottom half of the league, where we can get away with an undersized PF, it's painfully obvious that we're far better off with the player, if healthy, that JB had in there in the first place. Why is it such a problem for you to concede the obvious?

 

[realorange]

If Chris is coming off rehab and wouldn't start because of it no way DC2 starts and plays after three straight years of knee injuries and almost two years of not playing in competitive action.

Not sure how you figure that because Coleman had completely different surgery and his rehab was close to being sufficient this season. Coleman will be wanting to play so bad he can taste it and the pre-season schedule would give him plenty of time to work off the rust from his game.
I was just repeating what JB said regarding Chris and his rehab schedule.

 

[two3zone]

Not sure how you figure that because Coleman had completely different surgery and his rehab was close to being sufficient this season. Coleman will be wanting to play so bad he can taste it and the pre-season schedule would give him plenty of time to work off the rust from his game.
I was just repeating what JB said regarding Chris and his rehab schedule.

I get what you're saying and what JB is saying, but expecting even 20 minutes out of the gate from DC2 is lot in my opinion. Again, it's just an opinion but based on the injuries, the time he's had off, and his past performances.

I'm not trying to be a buzz killington or anything, but he wasn't even half of what people are saying he is going to be next season and that's with 2 years off and 3 years worth of knee injuries.

 

[Eagles20]

Comment removed. As to your reference to the round mound of rebound, obviously it's not just the height, it's the weight, as well, for rebounding. There are many examples of this in the OBE, and some this year. Jerome Lane was a pretty good rebounder at only 6'6 -- but he was 230 -240 and a beast. So was Shane Behanon ... both had the muscle to play PF even though they were "undersized" in height. You saw what Mitchell did from G-Tech, early this year. Kid is just slightly taller than Tyler, but goes 270. No surprise, he had 11 rebounds (TR had 4). We went -10 on the glass and barely got out of there with a 1 point win, thanks to Rak. Then there's the shot-blocking: TR basically gives us none (averaging a half a block per game). CM averaged 2. Since you played "college" ball, I assume you recognize the difference. And I assume that you can figure out that it's better to have two guys that can post up, rather than one, because it makes it easier to get the ball inside without having to wait for the the post player to keep switching with ball reversal to stay on the strong side. And I'm sure you also recognize that it's much easier for a 6'10" player to get tip-ins/put-backs than a 6-7/6-8 200 pound guy, as it is for the bigger player to score with a baby hook or drop step (which we've seen from CM but never TR).

And when we face the big teams we're headed for down the stretch (no, it's not just UNC), these differences are going to show up again and again. Pitt's going to throw Uchebo and Young (6-10/6-9) at us, and Louisville is going to have Onuaku and Harrell, and Notre Dame is going to have Auguste and Burgett ... it's goes on an on. And in pretty much every case TR is undersized to compete on the glass, and we're going to go -10 or -15 on the boards ... usually a sure-fired recipe' for loosing unless your team is efficient offensively with a deep bench (we have neither).

So for about the 10th time, other than smallish teams, mostly OOC or the bottom half of the league, where we can get away with an undersized PF, it's painfully obvious that we're far better off with the player, if healthy, that JB had in there in the first place. Why is it such a problem for you to concede the obvious?

I'm not sure you have been getting what I have been arguing here. When I first responded to someone in this thread it was about chris and Tyler both playing together as the forwards. I pretty much just reiterated what JB said in a presser earlier in the year that when they are both on the court together, the spacing suffers. He said they are both power forwards and havnt fit well together. I have never argued who should start over the other next year. My point has been that neither one yet has shown the ability to be a small forward. This is why the coach started Mike and then stuck with mike as the starting small forward.

You keep pointing to defense. Tyler is going to play a wing regardless. It doesn't matter if he's a small forward or power forward. We play zone. Both are responsible for the same assignments. So what you are saying is he should be recruited over, because he is not capable of rebounding against the big boys and he can't block shots. That is your opinion. I have felt Tyler has been an effective rebounder for the most part. He has 6 games where had had over 10 rebounds. I beleive he was second in RPG in the ACC going into the Miami game. He does well regardless of his size. It's kind of weird that you are making chris to be a pysical presence. The coach even made comments about his lack of strength and during the non conference Jb made a comment about he can't be pysical enough to play against 6'6' 6'7 mid major talent competition. I'm not sure If he would have done much better than Tyler did against unc's size. He still has a lot of work to do this summer getting stronger and filling out.

Like I said my argument in this thread hasn't been who should play over the other. When I responded in this thread it was to bring up I don't think they fit well together if they are both playing forward together . Hopefully they both work on their games and came back with some new skills next year.

 

[reedny]

I'm not sure you have been getting what I have been arguing here. When I first responded to someone in this thread it was about chris and Tyler both playing together as the forwards. I pretty much just reiterated what JB said in a presser earlier in the year that when they are both on the court together, the spacing suffers. He said they are both power forwards and havnt fit well together. I have never argued who should start over the other next year. My point has been that neither one yet has shown the ability to be a small forward. This is why the coach started Mike and then stuck with mike as the starting small forward.

You keep pointing to defense. Tyler is going to play a wing regardless. It doesn't matter if he's a small forward or power forward. We play zone. Both are responsible for the same assignments. So what you are saying is he should be recruited over, because he is not capable of rebounding against the big boys and he can't block shots. That is your opinion. I have felt Tyler has been an effective rebounder for the most part. He has 6 games where had had over 10 rebounds. I beleive he was second in RPG in the ACC going into the Miami game. He does well regardless of his size. It's kind of weird that you are making chris to be a pysical presence. The coach even made comments about his lack of strength and during the non conference Jb made a comment about he can't be pysical enough to play against 6'6' 6'7 mid major talent competition. I'm not sure If he would have done much better than Tyler did against unc's size. He still has a lot of work to do this summer getting stronger and filling out.

Like I said my argument in this thread hasn't been who should play over the other. When I responded in this thread it was to bring up I don't think they fit well together if they are both playing forward together . Hopefully they both work on their games and came back with some new skills next year.

I agree with most of your statements about Tyler -- he's very good on the glass for his size. Also, I agree that Chris has some limitations with his lack of strength and inability (at this early point) to finish.

But I'm looking at where they're both going as players -- the size/skillset they bring. Right now, yes, Tyler's in Chris's space -- but only b/c his outside game is not developed yet. Once his shot comes, he'll move out and shoot and slash for us. When this happens -- probably next year--I think he and CM can be a great pair of forwards for us. CM's post game will improve and he'll find it easier to score inside with an occasional jumpshot. We'll need Chris' size inside, his shot-blocking and his developing low block game to help whoever we're playing in the middle. If CM has to move inside .. I can see JB moving Tyler over. We'll be smaller, but i'm hoping our center situation can keep CM (4) and Tyler (3) at the positions where their developing skills can help the team best.

As far as your comment about the zone forwards (in red), yes we have two wings. But just because we run zone doesn't mean that we don't need size on the glass from at least one of them, if not both. When the ball goes up, we need a bigger guy inside to help the center rebound. A 6-8 240 guy would do. But a 6-10 PF like CM (even though his strength is dubious at this point) is desirable with that length -- probably why JB was starting CM at the 4. Chris has lots of areas for improvement, as you point out. But even even as a freshman, he's going to have a better chance of defending the rim, or coming down with a missed shot, than a 6-7 200 pound guy. It's that simple. Yes he needs to improve, but the size and talent are there.

Btw, I just watched Virgina take UNC apart on UNC's home court. UNC had a 7 rb edge, but most of that was +5 in the first half. In the second half, UVA held it's own on the glass (-2) using their inside size -- 7 footer tobey helped by Atkins and Gill (both 6-8 230-240). With our current roster (including Tyler at the 4 and no bench), we have no chance of competing with Virginia on the glass or the scoreboard ... too much size and too much talent. Anderson's amazing, and I'm afraid Perrantes and Brogdon are going to slice and dice us. Last year they beat us by 20. This year, they're bigger and better, and we're smaller and struggling.