Nice to see UK lose. Even with those 8 straight years of #1 recruiting

[HOFCeluck]

As exceptional as UK's freshman have been, bottom line is that they're still freshman and at 18-19 years old they are far from physically mature. Just look at Fox and Monk for example, their bodies need to get much stronger, etc. I think it's a factor as to being really good, but just not strong/good enough...just my opinion.

I get that he has the number one recruiting class every year. But he also LOSES the number one recruiting class every year.

I don't care how highly regarded they are. It's tough to win with teams of freshmen.

 

[Orangello]

A pox on all of them. Those fans are like locust.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

As exceptional as UK's freshman have been, bottom line is that they're still freshman and at 18-19 years old they are far from physically mature. Just look at Fox and Monk for example, their bodies need to get much stronger, etc. I think it's a factor as to being really good, but just not strong/good enough...just my opinion.

Yep, I thought that was the difference in the end. North Carolina had more experience, they have upperclassman who have been through a long season grind before. Those freshmen really get challenged in these late tournament games, and don't always excel through the adversity they will inevitably face.

 

[721Comstock]

Yep, I thought that was the difference in the end. North Carolina had more experience, they have upperclassman who have been through a long season grind before. Those freshmen really get challenged in these late tournament games, and don't always excel through the adversity they will inevitably face.

UNC's huge experience edge still only had them win on a semi-miraculous last second shot by a little-used reserve who was having the game of his life.
After one of those inexperienced UK Frosh hit some insanely hard 3's to tie it up.

I enjoy slagging on Cal and UK as much as the next person, but let's be real:
ANY program would kill or die to have the sort of post-season record he's had at UK.
In spite of "only" one title.

 

[cuseinseattle]

UNC's huge experience edge still only had them win on a semi-miraculous last second shot by a little-used reserve who was having the game of his life.
After one of those inexperienced UK Frosh hit some insanely hard 3's to tie it up.

I enjoy slagging on Cal and UK as much as the next person, but let's be real:
ANY program would kill or die to have the sort of post-season record he's had at UK.
In spite of "only" one title.

I don't think people are killing him or saying these kids aren't good though. They are just trying to find a reason for why they haven't been able to win multiple titles considering the classes he brings in.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

UNC's huge experience edge still only had them win on a semi-miraculous last second shot by a little-used reserve who was having the game of his life.
After one of those inexperienced UK Frosh hit some insanely hard 3's to tie it up.

I enjoy slagging on Cal and UK as much as the next person, but let's be real:
ANY program would kill or die to have the sort of post-season record he's had at UK.
In spite of "only" one title.

But at the same time, it's easy to project that a better coach could have an even better record of success. He has a semi pro team every year.

 

[721Comstock]

But at the same time, it's easy to project that a better coach could have an even better record of success. He has a semi pro team every year.

True, but - a guy like Dean Smith had some fairly absurdly talented teams during much of his tenure, and "only" won 2 NC's out of 11 Final Fours.

Smith was lucky to even win those two.
Both titles came after major, last-second mistakes from opponents.
In 1982, after Michael Jordan nailed that baseline jumper, Georgetown’s Fred Brown dribbled down the court with a chance to bring the Hoyas their first title. For some reason he stutter-stepped, then attempted to throw the ball to teammate Sleepy Floyd. Only Floyd wasn’t standing where Brown thought and the pass went directly to UNC’s James Worthy. Game over.

Eleven years later, UNC was the beneficiary of Chris Webber’s infamous timeout.

Neither of these errors means Carolina wouldn’t have won those games.
They just prove, again, that winning the NCAA tournament is basically a crapshoot.

 

[cuseinseattle]

The one thing I will say in defense of Cal and UK this year is that they had like a 5 person class come in and they didn't have the #1 class. Duke got Bolden, Giles, Tatum and Jackson. They lost in the 2nd round of the tourney. UK really was Monk and Fox on the perimeter and Bam down low and the rest of the team played hard and good defense. I haven't gone down their roster and see where other kids were ranked but I think UNC had a lot back and was just a bigger team that was better.

 

[orangecuse]

UNC's huge experience edge still only had them win on a semi-miraculous last second shot by a little-used reserve who was having the game of his life.
After one of those inexperienced UK Frosh hit some insanely hard 3's to tie it up.

I enjoy slagging on Cal and UK as much as the next person, but let's be real:
ANY program would kill or die to have the sort of post-season record he's had at UK.
In spite of "only" one title.

Keeping things real, there was nothing miraculous or semi-miraculous about Maye's last second shot, other than it being last second. He was wide open from 18' feet...he's an excellent shooter. If anything was miraculous or semi for that matter, was Monk's last three pointer. He was guarded and off balance and it still miraculously went in. UK's young -hardly ever used- Aussie had the game of his life as well...just as miraculous, especially when considering he doesn't play nearly as much as Maye has.

 

[dasher]

That's too bad.

 

[dasher]

yeah I agree. Kentucky has a stupid approach. they would probably be better if they went for more grad transfers.

They would be better off in some people's minds to stay with mid major players that they made the mistake of recruiting in the first place.

 

[UnderHisOwnPower]

True, but - a guy like Dean Smith had some fairly absurdly talented teams during much of his tenure, and "only" won 2 NC's out of 11 Final Fours.

Both of those Smith examples prove the point that experience overcomes talent when it matters most. Weber the freshman, and Brown the sophomore, both choked at the most inopportune times. Neither example is as subtle as missing an important shot late in the game, but I think they both highlight the need for the most successful teams to have a collective team experience for those moments of adversity they will always face late in the tournament. That's the risk you run with the one and doners. I'm not knocking stock piling all that talent, but you better bring it together with some solid crunch time experience if you're going to win it all.

 

[orangecuse]

The one thing I will say in defense of Cal and UK this year is that they had like a 5 person class come in and they didn't have the #1 class. Duke got Bolden, Giles, Tatum and Jackson. They lost in the 2nd round of the tourney. UK really was Monk and Fox on the perimeter and Bam down low and the rest of the team played hard and good defense. I haven't gone down their roster and see where other kids were ranked but I think UNC had a lot back and was just a bigger team that was better.

Not sure how Cal gets all those "inexperienced/first year guys" to play solid D. Maybe, JB could watch some video tape in that regard.

 

[cuseincincy]

Like? Like? That's my only option? Where is the LOVE! button? You people that talk about UK and their fans have no FN idea how bad they are. None. The most obnoxious fan base in sports. I have to give Cal a little bit of credit (please don't ban me admins!). But it takes something to handle that fanbase the way he does. Living so close, my local sports radio station carries UK (and Louisville) games. It also carries the UK call in show with Cal. Once in a while I listen for a short while just for the comedy. Patience of Job I'm telling you. "Our next caller is Billy Jim from Whiskey Holler, you're on with Coach Cal"

BJ: "Coach I'd just like let you know me and Martha were praying for you and the Cats on Sunday, the Lord is really blessed that you're here to coach our boys. Now in the last game we noticed that sometimes Bam's elbow is a little bent when he shoots free throws and we wanted to know if you've been working with him on that because we sure would like him to be able make dem free shots when we get to the championship game this year."

CAL: "Well thanks Billy Jim. It's fans like you and Martha that make being the coach at UK such an honor and there's no place I'd rather be, and I'll make sure I get Kenny to work with Bam on the elbow."

BJ: "Well we're all in this together Coach we sure do appreciate you being here and helping our boys. We ran into Derek Wills at the mall a couple weeks ago, of course you know he's from the next county over from Whiskey Holler so we saw him play in high school and I told him he needs to drive a little more when he gets the ball. I know he don't really like to do that But I told him I saw him do that in high school and there's no reason he can't do it now so I was wondering if you might think he should work on driving a little more?

CAL: "Well I kind of like it when Derek shoots those 3pts shots, he's pretty good at that you know."

BJ: "Well, I guess you know best coach but it couldn't hurt him for being a first round draft pick and all, I know his daddy can't wait to go to that draft and meet the commissioner. Well I guess I'll just hang up now and say God Bless you and yours, God bless UK and Go Blue!"

Now...I do not like Cal. But I have to give him credit for knowing his fan base and embracing it.

 

[cuseinseattle]

Not sure how Cal gets all those "inexperienced/first year guys" to play solid D. Maybe, JB could watch some video tape in that regard.

Cal is a very good defensive coach. I think that is his biggest strength and probably why the 1 and done system works so good for him. It's easier to get defensive up and running quicker than offense and he has the athletes for the offense to be at least passable. I don't agree with JB's assessment that our issue this year was all the first year kids. The issue is we had multiple people playing in places that it was not possible for them to be successful. We had a 5'9" point guard and a guy playing the 3 with limited lateral ability. We also had a 1st year kid who is good offensively but bad defensively who we had to run with because our options were so limited. This is a recruiting problem and not a coaching problem. If this team had Morris and Bryant on it we would have been fine for example. White would have been a defensive liability but it would have been fine since he was the only one.

 

[jgeorge322]

Cal is a very good defensive coach. I think that is his biggest strength and probably why the 1 and done system works so good for him. It's easier to get defensive up and running quicker than offense and he has the athletes for the offense to be at least passable. I don't agree with JB's assessment that our issue this year was all the first year kids. The issue is we had multiple people playing in places that it was not possible for them to be successful. We had a 5'9" point guard and a guy playing the 3 with limited lateral ability. We also had a 1st year kid who is good offensively but bad defensively who we had to run with because our options were so limited. This is a recruiting problem and not a coaching problem. If this team had Morris and Bryant on it we would have been fine for example. White would have been a defensive liability but it would have been fine since he was the only one.

Is there any good coach who doesnt coach good defense? (Besides babers, jk...)

 

[obliterata]

The Dynasty class was up there too, wasn't it?

Yes it was, I've seen it rated second and third by different sources. Great class but still not considered #1.

 

[donniesyracuse]

1 NC
2 NC game appearances
4 Final Fours
2 Elite Eights
1 Second round loss
1 NIT

Those results are fine. Basketball game outcomes are so random it is absurd to expect to win a championship even when one has the best players. To win six games in a row (five of which will likely be against top 50 opponents) requires good fortune in addition to talent.

 

[SUintheVille]

Like? Like? That's my only option? Where is the LOVE! button? You people that talk about UK and their fans have no FN idea how bad they are. None. The most obnoxious fan base in sports. I have to give Cal a little bit of credit (please don't ban me admins!). But it takes something to handle that fanbase the way he does. Living so close, my local sports radio station carries UK (and Louisville) games. It also carries the UK call in show with Cal. Once in a while I listen for a short while just for the comedy. Patience of Job I'm telling you. "Our next caller is Billy Jim from Whiskey Holler, you're on with Coach Cal"

BJ: "Coach I'd just like let you know me and Martha were praying for you and the Cats on Sunday, the Lord is really blessed that you're here to coach our boys. Now in the last game we noticed that sometimes Bam's elbow is a little bent when he shoots free throws and we wanted to know if you've been working with him on that because we sure would like him to be able make dem free shots when we get to the championship game this year."

CAL: "Well thanks Billy Jim. It's fans like you and Martha that make being the coach at UK such an honor and there's no place I'd rather be, and I'll make sure I get Kenny to work with Bam on the elbow."

BJ: "Well we're all in this together Coach we sure do appreciate you being here and helping our boys. We ran into Derek Wills at the mall a couple weeks ago, of course you know he's from the next county over from Whiskey Holler so we saw him play in high school and I told him he needs to drive a little more when he gets the ball. I know he don't really like to do that But I told him I saw him do that in high school and there's no reason he can't do it now so I was wondering if you might think he should work on driving a little more?

CAL: "Well I kind of like it when Derek shoots those 3pts shots, he's pretty good at that you know."

BJ: "Well, I guess you know best coach but it couldn't hurt him for being a first round draft pick and all, I know his daddy can't wait to go to that draft and meet the commissioner. Well I guess I'll just hang up now and say God Bless you and yours, God bless UK and Go Blue!"

Now...I do not like Cal. But I have to give him credit for knowing his fan base and embracing it.

Ha ha. I live close too, and I know exactly what you are talking about. I have a number of friends who are UK fans, at least they don't act or talk like Billy Jim! Of course, I'm not a UK fan at all.

 

[RF2044]

That was freaking amazing -- ha ha ha!!

 

[Knicks411]

in 8 years, Cal has made 4 final fours and 2 more elite 8's. That's pretty damn impressive. Winning a single elimination tournament is hard.

 

[Ringostar57]

Like? Like? That's my only option? Where is the LOVE! button? You people that talk about UK and their fans have no FN idea how bad they are. None. The most obnoxious fan base in sports. I have to give Cal a little bit of credit (please don't ban me admins!). But it takes something to handle that fanbase the way he does. Living so close, my local sports radio station carries UK (and Louisville) games. It also carries the UK call in show with Cal. Once in a while I listen for a short while just for the comedy. Patience of Job I'm telling you. "Our next caller is Billy Jim from Whiskey Holler, you're on with Coach Cal"

BJ: "Coach I'd just like let you know me and Martha were praying for you and the Cats on Sunday, the Lord is really blessed that you're here to coach our boys. Now in the last game we noticed that sometimes Bam's elbow is a little bent when he shoots free throws and we wanted to know if you've been working with him on that because we sure would like him to be able make dem free shots when we get to the championship game this year."

CAL: "Well thanks Billy Jim. It's fans like you and Martha that make being the coach at UK such an honor and there's no place I'd rather be, and I'll make sure I get Kenny to work with Bam on the elbow."

BJ: "Well we're all in this together Coach we sure do appreciate you being here and helping our boys. We ran into Derek Wills at the mall a couple weeks ago, of course you know he's from the next county over from Whiskey Holler so we saw him play in high school and I told him he needs to drive a little more when he gets the ball. I know he don't really like to do that But I told him I saw him do that in high school and there's no reason he can't do it now so I was wondering if you might think he should work on driving a little more?

CAL: "Well I kind of like it when Derek shoots those 3pts shots, he's pretty good at that you know."

BJ: "Well, I guess you know best coach but it couldn't hurt him for being a first round draft pick and all, I know his daddy can't wait to go to that draft and meet the commissioner. Well I guess I'll just hang up now and say God Bless you and yours, God bless UK and Go Blue!"

Now...I do not like Cal. But I have to give him credit for knowing his fan base and embracing it.

Wow Whiskey Hollow...you should check out them toothless fellers from Bourbon Gulch with Cal is our pal and in Cal we trust stickers on their rusted out pick up trucks.

 

[HOFCeluck]

I lived in Lexington from February to May of 2012.

Ugh.

 

[Cuseball]

in 8 years, Cal has made 4 final fours and 2 more elite 8's. That's pretty damn impressive. Winning a single elimination tournament is hard.

yes and I was wrong. he had 32 NBA players at his disposal including NBA top tier players (Wall, Davis, Cousins, etc etc etc). It's hard to win the tournament but you should have more than one title with those kids. Every game he has coached at Kentucky he has the more talented team than the opponent. No one else can say that. Sure they were young but that's by choice

 

[Knicks411]

yes and I was wrong. he had 32 NBA players at his disposal including NBA top tier players (Wall, Davis, Cousins, etc etc etc). It's hard to win the tournament but you should have more than one title with those kids. Every game he has coached at Kentucky he has the more talented team than the opponent. No one else can say that. Sure they were young but that's by choice

I guess? it's a single elimination tournament. If he had had won twice, the same people would still say he should have won more. He's been highly successful.