NIL has changed me as a college sports fan...and it ain't for the better

[DoctorBombay]

Great points and arguments all around, and certainly no easy answers. The impotence of the NCAA is on full display as they once again abdicate and let the inmates run the asylum.
Personally for me, its always been about the hypocrisy. Calling them "student athletes" was a great deal...for everyone but the students. Yeah they got some perks, but the adults were profiting off their hard work, and meanwhile they couldnt accept a measly lunch or plane ticket home without being punished.
Yes, it's a clusterfkc right now, but eventually it'll shake itself out and we'll see what it looks like then. But one thing is crystal clear- college sports are no longer what we grew up with...but then again, we can say that about most everything. It is, what it is. JMHO

 

[Cheriehoop]

I’m all for it. Have been for years. As long as it’s not operated by universities.

That’s what‘s ironic to me. If anyone thought they could really make money on a league made up of kids out of high school, they’d be all over it and we’d have seen minor basketball leagues flourishing. The NBA’s G League doesn’t even make money, so many other leagues over the years have gone broke. These young men making all this money now in college are very fortunate since there’s little competition for their services except between the colleges themselves,if colleges didn’t exist for them.

 

[djcon57]

That’s what‘s ironic to me. If anyone thought they could really make money on a league made up of kids out of high school, they’d be all over it and we’d have seen minor basketball leagues flourishing. The NBA’s G League doesn’t even make money, so many other leagues over the years have gone broke. These young men making all this money now in college are very fortunate since there’s little competition for their services except between the colleges themselves,if colleges didn’t exist for them.

This is incorrect.

The top players have been going to G League Ignite, New Zealand, among others for years now.

It's true for your Jesse types. Not for the top players.

 

[Cheriehoop]

This is incorrect.

The top players have been going to G League Ignite, New Zealand, among others for years now.

It's true for your Jesse types. Not for the top players.

LOL. Yet the G League is a money loser. How many players out of high school, maybe 15 incoming out of around 4000 D1 basketball players are in a category to currently go to the G league, that doesn’t have enough support to break even?

 

[shandeezy7]

This is incorrect.

The top players have been going to G League Ignite, New Zealand, among others for years now.

It's true for your Jesse types. Not for the top players.

It's an avenue, but not one having a significant impact on where 99% of college basketball players can play. I'm pretty sure the G League Ignite roster is typically like half foreign-born players that would never have played in college to begin with. And the list of guys that have bypassed college to play in New Zealand is a small one.

 

[djcon57]

LOL. Yet the G League is a money loser. How many players out of high school, maybe 15 incoming out of around 4000 D1 basketball players are in a category to currently go to the G league, that doesn’t have enough support to break even?

G league Ignite, I said.

LOL, back at ya. Do your research

 

[djcon57]

It's an avenue, but not one having a significant impact on where 99% of college basketball players can play. I'm pretty sure the G League Ignite roster is typically like half foreign-born players that would never have played in college to begin with. And the list of guys that have bypassed college to play in New Zealand is a small one.

I never said it was. However, it's 100% competing for the TOP players which suggests they are looking into ways to develop it.. Scoot Henderson, Jalen Green.

Suggesting "LOL G League doesnt break even" is the typical response by people that said "LOL They'll never pay college players" 10 years ago.

Either look towards the future or get left behind.

 

[dan7800]

I've said it before, but I think that as a society if we REALLY wanted to advance the athletes then the NBA,.

Let the schools pay the players. Complete joke that more of the financial burden should be passed on to donors.

It’s like the Yankees asking fans to donate.

If schools pay the players, then the school needs to pay athletes equally in all sports (including men and women). The vast majority of schools couldn't even swing scholarships + $50k to all players.


This would never work, but my ideal scenario would be:

- That the NFL, NBA would require a legit 4 year degree to compete. This would ensure that athletes stayed in school and focused on their degrees (yes, most would be in basketweaving). If we are truly trying to help disadvantaged/minority athletes then IMHO the best way is through a degree. Long term, I believe that a legit degree from a decent school is more valuable to the athlete than a single few hundred K payday.
- Go back to the transfer, you sit out 1 year rule.

Again, I don't see any of these happening, but it would be great to get the "old" college sports back again.

 

[shandeezy7]

I never said it was. However, it's 100% competing for the TOP players which suggests they are looking into ways to develop it.. Scoot Henderson, Jalen Green.

Suggesting "LOL G League doesnt break even" is the typical response by people that said "LOL They'll never pay college players" 10 years ago.

Either look towards the future or get left behind.

I just don't think it will ever develop into a full minor league system that provides an avenue for more than the top .001% of high school basketball players to skip college and start playing professionally right away. Profitability does matter eventually, and dumping money into a minor league development system when there is a free one already available to them (NCAA) doesn't make a ton of business sense at a certain point. NIL does also change the equation a bit, as athletes can now get paid for a year (or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5) with basically zero expenses

 

[Cheriehoop]

G league Ignite, I said.

LOL, back at ya. Do your research

Is that league making money? How many players are opting for it? How many are the very top players? Do your research now.

---

 

[djcon57]

Is that league making money? How many players are opting for it? How many are the very top players? Do your research now.

---

G league ignite is not a league, ma’am.

 

[djcon57]

I just don't think it will ever develop into a full minor league system that provides an avenue for more than the top .001% of high school basketball players to skip college and start playing professionally right away. Profitability does matter eventually, and dumping money into a minor league development system when there is a free one already available to them (NCAA) doesn't make a ton of business sense at a certain point. NIL does also change the equation a bit, as athletes can now get paid for a year (or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5) with basically zero expenses

Right but the crux of the whole debate unless I’m incorrect is “These young men making all this money now in college are very fortunate since there’s little competition for their services except between the colleges themselves,if colleges didn’t exist for them.”

I simply disagree. the ncaa is the one fortunate

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I've said it before, but I think that as a society if we REALLY wanted to advance the athletes then the NBA,.

If schools pay the players, then the school needs to pay athletes equally in all sports (including men and women). The vast majority of schools couldn't even swing scholarships + $50k to all players.


This would never work, but my ideal scenario would be:

- That the NFL, NBA would require a legit 4 year degree to compete. This would ensure that athletes stayed in school and focused on their degrees (yes, most would be in basketweaving). If we are truly trying to help disadvantaged/minority athletes then IMHO the best way is through a degree. Long term, I believe that a legit degree from a decent school is more valuable to the athlete than a single few hundred K payday.
- Go back to the transfer, you sit out 1 year rule.

Again, I don't see any of these happening, but it would be great to get the "old" college sports back again.

The bigger issue as a fan for me is the transfer rule.

I think the NFL could go with the degree, but no way for the NBA. They want the top talent right away. Also the NBA is international. How can you require US kids to have a degree but Euro kids do not?

We have communications schools, law schools, business schools. So why can't we have athletic schools? If not for Title IX, we could go that route, pay the players, and call it a day.

A Sporing Club would be along the lines of an athletic school, but not be academic. Which would be a work around for Title IX. For University sports you don't pay players and it is easy to have equality in the number of athletes.

The other nice thing about a Sporting Club is the NBA can draft a kid and let them stay to develop at the Sporting Club. Or even loan a kid who played one year in the NBA but needs more work. How much better would College BBall be if all these 2nd round drafts picks stayed another 2 years?

 

[tbonezone]

The bigger issue as a fan for me is the transfer rule.

I think the NFL could go with the degree, but no way for the NBA. They want the top talent right away. Also the NBA is international. How can you require US kids to have a degree but Euro kids do not?

We have communications schools, law schools, business schools. So why can't we have athletic schools? If not for Title IX, we could go that route, pay the players, and call it a day.

A Sporing Club would be along the lines of an athletic school, but not be academic. Which would be a work around for Title IX. For University sports you don't pay players and it is easy to have equality in the number of athletes.

The other nice thing about a Sporting Club is the NBA can draft a kid and let them stay to develop at the Sporting Club. Or even loan a kid who played one year in the NBA but needs more work. How much better would College BBall be if all these 2nd round drafts picks stayed another 2 years?

right on. a university could offer a 2 yr degree tailored to athletes who expect they might turn pro. it would include classes in fitness. in finance management . in broadcasting and BUSINESS P.R. and marketing. life skills that translate past their very limited careers. teach them something useful they can take with them before they bolt.

 

[rrlbees]

I never said it was. However, it's 100% competing for the TOP players which suggests they are looking into ways to develop it.. Scoot Henderson, Jalen Green.

Suggesting "LOL G League doesnt break even" is the typical response by people that said "LOL They'll never pay college players" 10 years ago.

Either look towards the future or get left behind.

I think you’re exaggerating the number of top players that go play with the ignite. How many top 10 or top 20 a year do they get? 1? Maybe 2? A large majority of the top players go to college.

 

[djcon57]

I think you’re exaggerating the number of top players that go play with the ignite. How many top 10 or top 20 a year do they get? 1? Maybe 2? A large majority of the top players go to college.

Ignite has had as many drafted players in the last 2 years than we have in the last 8 years and as many lottery picks in the last 2 years as we have the last 13 years.

Of course a large majority of players go to college, there's only 1 team. I'm suggesting they are working on a model, so the idea that it's impossible that college wont have competition is naive.

 

[djcon57]

I just don't think it will ever develop into a full minor league system that provides an avenue for more than the top .001% of high school basketball players to skip college and start playing professionally right away. Profitability does matter eventually, and dumping money into a minor league development system when there is a free one already available to them (NCAA) doesn't make a ton of business sense at a certain point. NIL does also change the equation a bit, as athletes can now get paid for a year (or 2 or 3 or 4 or 5) with basically zero expenses

It doesnt matter, honestly, if it develops stars. The NBA makes money on the NBA. If having a minor league helps them develop stars faster or helps them scout the players better or whatever, they will take the loss if it helps their main product.

 

[shandeezy7]

It doesnt matter, honestly, if it develops stars. The NBA makes money on the NBA. If having a minor league helps them develop stars faster or helps them scout the players better or whatever, they will take the loss if it helps their main product.

The NBA has never had an issue developing stars. In fact, they are consistently the best pro sports league in the U.S. at developing and marketing their stars - and have been since long before the G League existed. The lottery picks produced by Ignite would have more likely than not been lottery picks had they attended college, as well. I'm not saying there isn't a place for something like Ignite as an alternative for some kids, but I think you're overvaluing its impact. I suppose we'll have to agree to disagree on this one, and time will tell.

 

[rrlbees]

Ignite has had as many drafted players in the last 2 years than we have in the last 8 years and as many lottery picks in the last 2 years as we have the last 13 years.

Of course a large majority of players go to college, there's only 1 team. I'm suggesting they are working on a model, so the idea that it's impossible that college wont have competition is naive.

First paragraph has nothing to do with your posts nor mine.

Second paragraph is an assumption and not applicable to now. The ignite is not a competition for college right now. They are losing that competition. NIL might even make it more difficult.

 

[pfister1]

I go back to the idea that each professional sport should have a true minor/developmental league where players that have no interest in an education can go and advance their athletic career.

Kids that are interested in furthering their education and who can reduce the cost of doing so by playing a sport and representing their school should do that, but the reward for doing that is a free or reduced cost education. If they can pursue a professional sports career after getting their education GREAT!!

But, the NCAA should not be the minor league for developing athletes that have no interest in an education, but have to go that route because they have no other path to pursue their athletic career.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I go back to the idea that each professional sport should have a true minor/developmental league where players that have no interest in an education can go and advance their athletic career.

Kids that are interested in furthering their education and who can reduce the cost of doing so by playing a sport and representing their school should do that, but the reward for doing that is a free or reduced cost education. If they can pursue a professional sports career after getting their education GREAT!!

But, the NCAA should not be the minor league for developing athletes that have no interest in an education, but have to go that route because they have no other path to pursue their athletic career.

That would be nice but NIL (which isn't going away) and TV money (which also isn't going away) make that impossible to achieve. I think we can all agree it SHOULD be that way but it CAN NOT be that way. So we need to improve what we have because we aren't going back.

What gets more TV time NCAA Baseball or Minor League Baseball? Heck there are probably more NCAA nationally televised games than MLB games. The same thing would happen with FB and BBall if they had Minor Leagues. The College brands are too strong. Kids will go to where the money is and that will be in College.

 

[Cuse181]

First paragraph has nothing to do with your posts nor mine.

Second paragraph is an assumption and not applicable to now. The ignite is not a competition for college right now. They are losing that competition. NIL might even make it more difficult.

This. The only edge they had is gone. The only top players they will get will be the ones who wont be able to qualify for college

 

[Cheriehoop]

Ignite has had as many drafted players in the last 2 years than we have in the last 8 years and as many lottery picks in the last 2 years as we have the last 13 years.

Of course a large majority of players go to college, there's only 1 team. I'm suggesting they are working on a model, so the idea that it's impossible that college wont have competition is naive.

Roster - NBA G League Ignite

ignite.gleague.nba.com

Only 5 players with no college experience, mostly foreign players on the team. Having spent money for these foreign players to attend their NBA Academy then put them in the Ignite G League, the NBA is of course targeting them as their prime draft choices. Note the number of ex college players including our own James Southerland who is 33 years old (he isn’t the only 30+ ex-college player on the roster either).

 

[two3zone]

Roster - NBA G League Ignite

ignite.gleague.nba.com

Only 5 players with no college experience, mostly foreign players on the team. Having spent money for these foreign players to attend their NBA Academy then put them in the Ignite G League, the NBA is of course targeting them as their prime draft choices. Note the number of ex college players including our own James Southerland who is 33 years old (he isn’t the only 30+ ex-college player on the roster either).

James Southerland being 33 makes me feel like I helped build the pyramids.

 

[tbonezone]

That would be nice but NIL (which isn't going away) and TV money (which also isn't going away) make that impossible to achieve. I think we can all agree it SHOULD be that way but it CAN NOT be that way. So we need to improve what we have because we aren't going back.

What gets more TV time NCAA Baseball or Minor League Baseball? Heck there are probably more NCAA nationally televised games than MLB games. The same thing would happen with FB and BBall if they had Minor Leagues. The College brands are too strong. Kids will go to where the money is and that will be in College.

"NIL has changed me as a college sports fan...and it ain't for the better"​

well this was the original context of this thread. if some fans are cool with schools buying players that's fine . that's your opinion. i'll respect that.
but many us are not cool with it . and yes it changes the college game for me as a fan and will probably drive me away to better fill my time. whatever. enjoy.