NIL NET and the new landscape | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

NIL NET and the new landscape

I was just expressing a concept. I don’t watch other teams and don’t know anything about him, but from what I saw yearerday, he has a team of players who looked incredibly arrogant, who played with a ‘dirtiness’ I don’t often see. And as I said somewhere else, when that thing happened with Freeman and their player who looked like the poster child for Roofies, it was instigated by their guy and after the review, Red pulled Freeman out and I swear Barnes ran a play for their guy. Rewarding him. Maybe it was incidental that it worked out that way, but it felt intentional.

Yeah, they played with swagger and ran up the score on us in the second half, prolly as instructed.

That one dude was douchey for sure (not just on that play).

That said, I've never considered Barnes a pariah and that one play didn't change my opinion... He's coached some bigtime players too - Kevin Durant, TJ Ford, etc.
 
Why are you worried what Arkansas they aren’t our competition and we are so far away from competing with them anyway.

Before worrying about Arkansas we need to.,.

1st get back to being good enough to make the bubble. It has been 4 years since we could say that.

2nd get back to being a consistent NCAA team. That has been 10 years.

3rd be good enough to routinely get a Top 8 seed.

4th be good enough to be Top 25 every year.

Then we can worry about what Arkansas is doing.

These complaints are acting like we are SU from a dozen years ago and facing an uphill battle. We aren’t even at the hill yet which is an SU problem and not the current landscape.
I’m not worried about Arkansas. I used it as an example. Things don’t happen in a vacuum. There is a reason there’s 9 top 25 SEC teams and more on the bubble, and the big east and ACC are way down. What happens when Arkansas, Georgia, Ole Miss , (teams not usually at the top of the SEC) are doing better absolutely affects us because obviously they are getting more of the better players and the ACC in Big East are getting fewer.
 
I agree with your analysis mostly, but this part just misses the point. I don't believe in NIL and paying players because I thought it would make our team better. I believe in it because it's the right thing to do. Sure a free 300k education is great, but when you make the school hundreds of millions of dollars via media rights, merchandise, etc etc, you deserve to get a big part of it. It's the right thing to do. Has it hurt Syracuse basketball? Absolutely. But please don't act like we're idiots for wanting NIL and paying the players-- some of us are capable of having values larger than the success of our favorite college sports team.

Now, I think in some ways, the current situation is the "worst" of both worlds and it may get better in the near future. Right now, because the NCAA is still trying to resist the professionalization of players and because schools can't pay players directly, everything is operating on handshake agreements and both players and schools are vulnerable to being taken advantage of. This is also bad for college sports at large as a business, IMO, as 100% free agency every year leads to massive player movement in a way that makes it hard for fans to get attached to players. Long term, it could lead to a decrease in the revenue that players and schools share.

The answer, IMO, is to formalize schools paying the players-- ie making them "professionals" in every sense of the word. This would allow schools to sign players to contracts with all of the binding language that implies. Schools could sign players to 4 year guaranteed contracts that would prevent the player from moving on, but would also assure the player of getting paid, regardless of injury or poor performance. Players could choose to sign 1 year deals and bet on themselves, or take the security of long term deals. Will Syracuse still be at a disadvantage compared to the richest schools? Absolutely, but at least if they can win at scouting and development, they will reap the benefit of it.
I think you actually kind of agreed with me. I did not say that kids should not get NIL. I specifically said that they should for what it was intended for, or “sold as“. Shirt sales with their name and number, video games, local sponsorship, etc. and then you agreed with me that the system we have now was the worst of both worlds. That is the problem.

With the system we have right now we are whistling past the graveyard.

If the two biggest conferences break away, there will be a lot less NIL $ for the 70% of FBS players/ schools left out, because donors will not view us and our peer schools as highest level. There will be LESS, NOT MORE Nil for 70% of FBS players. Plus dramatically lower tv contracts, probably fewer scholarships too. Less NIL for the Penas, weatherspoons, Jobitys Lampkins, Bells, etc of the world. Not more.
 
I believe this post misses the point.

Even if you believe a scholarship+opportunity+exposure/promotion and training to develop your professional prospects are not enough, and aren’t what everyone else goes to college for… even if that’s not enough, and even if schools are making millions from some of their sports programs… that doesn’t rationalize alums and fans sending in money to buy an SUV for a high school recruit or a player from another school.

People who were against NIL weren’t opposed to players not being compensated for their names on merchandise. They/we were against the perversion of college athletics and putting ‘salaries’ and contracts outside the scope of the framework of collegiate athletics. And this is the result. It’s not at all about a player not being able to capitalize on his ‘fame.’ It’s not about denying him opportunities to be compensated for promotional work. Because companies paying them for promotional work is barely a blip on the monitor. Private citizens—either in giant chunks from the wealthy, or in crowdsourced bites—are giving college players Lamborghinis.

We can disagree about whether that’s the “right thing to do,” but what doesn’t match up is the WHO part. The schools may make money from certain programs, but the schools cannot pay the players. So, what was resolved there? Schools continue to make the money, but don‘t Have to share it. Instead, the cost is passed to the fans. Who are already paying the tv contracts/cable/streaming subscriptions, the merchandise, and the higher prices for the products.

Not the right thing to do for the schools. Because it’s now a mercenary system and fans get less invested in their teams and players Because we have them for much less time. And each year, we should recognize that every one of our players is just as likely to be poached. But, hey, that’s possibly just my/our perspective, because we aren’t on the top rung of the poachers…. There are some SEC fans who are plenty jazzed about how this is all working out. And maybe that’s ‘fair’ in a way. It’s their turn. But, they aren’t getting their turn for the best reasons.
Excellent post. We are in the process of “Killing the golden goose.”
 
The difference is the SEC went out and got good coaches while the ACC didnt. Plain & simple
We can break it down further if we want to look at hires but its not even a discussion
SEC schools with $200,000,000 athletic budgets (due to football) and billionaire donors giving the Caliparis of the world $10,000,000 to coach is why they have those coaches And ACC and BIG EAST don’t.

If the $ was reversed, ACC/BIG EAST would have those coaches and they wouldn’t. Don’t kid yourself.

if you think having the most $ to pay coaches and the most NIL $ to pay players has nothing to do with it, then keep holding your breath for us and the rest of the ACC to convince the best coaches to choose us over the SEC.
 
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Deleted my last post because it was snarky and not value added. Here are the possible outcomes for the new landscape.

1. Have lots of $$$ and spend it well.
2 ~= 3 Have lots of $$$ and Spent it Poorly / Have Little Money but Spend it Well
4. Have little $$$$ and spend it poorly.

I'm worried that we are currently in quad 4. We shouldn't need big money to blowout Colgate and Lemoyne at home.
 
SEC schools with $200,000,000 athletic budgets (due to football) and billionaire donors giving the Caliparis of the world $10,000,000 to coach is why they have those coaches And ACC and BIG EAST don’t.

If the $ was reversed, ACC/BIG EAST would have those coaches and they wouldn’t. Don’t kid yourself.

if you think having the most $ to pay coaches and the most NIL $ to pay players has nothing to do with it, then keep holding your breath for us and the rest of the ACC to convince the best coaches to choose us over the SEC.
How does Marquette or Xavier or Creighton afford good coaches but the ACC cant? Obv money makes and difference and helps but the ACC big brands went out and hired asst coaches while the SEC didnt
 
Deleted my last post because it was snarky and not value added. Here are the possible outcomes for the new landscape.

1. Have lots of $$$ and spend it well.
2 ~= 3 Have lots of $$$ and Spent it Poorly / Have Little Money but Spend it Well
4. Have little $$$$ and spend it poorly.

I'm worried that we are currently in quad 4. We shouldn't need big money to blowout Colgate and Lemoyne at home.
Good post, but even moving to Quad 3 means you need to catch lightning in a bottle to have years you can truly contend.
 
I’m not worried about Arkansas. I used it as an example. Things don’t happen in a vacuum. There is a reason there’s 9 top 25 SEC teams and more on the bubble, and the big east and ACC are way down. What happens when Arkansas, Georgia, Ole Miss , (teams not usually at the top of the SEC) are doing better absolutely affects us because obviously they are getting more of the better players and the ACC in Big East are getting fewer.

There are only 16 SEC teams. So why can't we be Top 50? Even if all the SEC is in the Top 50 (which is untrue) that still leaves 34 spots for everyone else.

What you state above is likely part of the reason Tony Bennett left. But the fact that SU is light years away from UVA, has nothing to do with the SEC. I wish we could be in UVA's shoes and complaining about the SEC $.
 
And while I agree with your premise that over time $ will shift things, currently the other leagues are still competitive.

2025 Top 25 Recruiting Rankings
SEC- 8 teams
ACC- 6 teams
B12- 4 teams
B1G- 4 teams
Big East- 3 teams

Interestingly the B1G is the worst given that they have 18 schools and only 4 in the Top 25. And they have plenty of $.
 
And while I agree with your premise that over time $ will shift things, currently the other leagues are still competitive.

2025 Top 25 Recruiting Rankings
SEC- 8 teams
ACC- 6 teams
B12- 4 teams
B1G- 4 teams
Big East- 3 teams

Interestingly the B1G is the worst given that they have 18 schools and only 4 in the Top 25. And they have plenty of $.
Two good posts.

However nowadays who you recruit now is not always as important as who you can retain or get when they “blow up”. Before nil and sitting out a year was the rule, recruiting rankings were everything. Kentucky whiffed on 4/5 stars for years (whiffed by their expectations). Their last few teams looked very little like their recruiting classes. 4 and 5 stars replaced by the best PROVEN kids available this year.

And Syracuse has always attracted a lot of guys who were ”one and done“ attitude type guys not quite good enough for Duke or UK. Often we lost some after they got offers to those type schools. We have not been a developmental program. We need to attract more tough kids. We have pretty Skilled players but very little toughness or discipline. And we need more developmental players. Bennett got a lot guys like that. But as you said he left because that was no longer enough, even for one of the best at it.

But you’re right. Top 25 should be achievable.

Also need just 1 key guy not a (1 and done type guy) for 4 years to build around. ((Kalkenbrenner for Creighton type guy)
 
How does Marquette or Xavier or Creighton afford good coaches but the ACC cant? Obv money makes and difference and helps but the ACC big brands went out and hired asst coaches while the SEC didnt
Not saying we can’t but wondering why sec has the most good coaches should not be a mystery.

no doubt we could do better.
 
The difference is the SEC went out and got good coaches while the ACC didnt. Plain & simple
We can break it down further if we want to look at hires but its not even a discussion
I would argue that the quality of head coach in the SEC, Big 12, and Big East is higher than the ACC. The ACC has lost some really good coaches over the past few years: Boeheim, Coach K, Bennet, Brey and has two coaches that are 75 and 76 years old in Larranaga and Hamilton. The ACC did not replace them with top coaches and the league is suffering.
 
That’s total NIL package, including national brands (Nike, Red Bull, etc). Not all of that is coming from BYU.

Maybe, maybe not. Not enough info in the article. He’s already got those deals and Nike runs out before he even gets to BYU.
 
I believe this post misses the point.

Even if you believe a scholarship+opportunity+exposure/promotion and training to develop your professional prospects are not enough, and aren’t what everyone else goes to college for… even if that’s not enough, and even if schools are making millions from some of their sports programs… that doesn’t rationalize alums and fans sending in money to buy an SUV for a high school recruit or a player from another school.

People who were against NIL weren’t opposed to players not being compensated for their names on merchandise. They/we were against the perversion of college athletics and putting ‘salaries’ and contracts outside the scope of the framework of collegiate athletics. And this is the result. It’s not at all about a player not being able to capitalize on his ‘fame.’ It’s not about denying him opportunities to be compensated for promotional work. Because companies paying them for promotional work is barely a blip on the monitor. Private citizens—either in giant chunks from the wealthy, or in crowdsourced bites—are giving college players Lamborghinis.

We can disagree about whether that’s the “right thing to do,” but what doesn’t match up is the WHO part. The schools may make money from certain programs, but the schools cannot pay the players. So, what was resolved there? Schools continue to make the money, but don‘t Have to share it. Instead, the cost is passed to the fans. Who are already paying the tv contracts/cable/streaming subscriptions, the merchandise, and the higher prices for the products.

Not the right thing to do for the schools. Because it’s now a mercenary system and fans get less invested in their teams and players Because we have them for much less time. And each year, we should recognize that every one of our players is just as likely to be poached. But, hey, that’s possibly just my/our perspective, because we aren’t on the top rung of the poachers…. There are some SEC fans who are plenty jazzed about how this is all working out. And maybe that’s ‘fair’ in a way. It’s their turn. But, they aren’t getting their turn for the best reasons.
I actually agree quite a bit with you-- I think you're overestimating our disagreement. As I said, the current situation is the worst of both worlds, especially as a fan of college sports.

I think maybe where we disagree is in two ways.

First, I think that the current situation is almost certainly better for the athletes than previously-- they are getting access to far more money than they would if they were just getting a portion of shirt sale money.

Second, I think we had to go through this in order to get to a regulated "professionalized" college sports. Mainly because the NCAA, being the corrupt backward organization it is wasn't going to let schools setup an actual logical framework-- instead schools had to simply violate the "rules" and then have their legislatures protect them-- this of course, happened ad hoc across the country, leading to the wild west we have now. Now that the cat is pretty much entirely out of the bag and the NCAA defanged, we can hopefully come to a better system.
 
Maybe, maybe not. Not enough info in the article. He’s already got those deals and Nike runs out before he even gets to BYU.
$7M was total, like I said before.

 
$7M was total, like I said before.


Well the article you first linked, didn’t say that, like I said before. lol.
 
Just called on ESPN during Kentucky game that programs that are serious about competing in basketball are spending $6-8m per year on NIL now.

Do we really expect to get back to the glory days? I mean, really?
 

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