No sure who said it but...

[RF2044]

I agree with you, however, this team has potential to be a very good defensive team and I think they will be toward the end of the season. How scary is that? And with regard to the "go to scorer", we have so many options, it is hard to pick one guy to be THE GUY. It might be whoever is hot that night, or maybe Lydon says, I want the ball. But, even if the play is for him, he is smart enough to pass when something else presents itself. We could just give the ball to Frank (Mango) or Gillon and let them make something happen. White's step back is nearly unstoppable. So many freaking options.

Very good / astute post.

 

[AZOrange]

Defense shouldn't matter this year. Passable is good enough.

Two weaknesses I see: chemistry (noted by RF) and potential lack of a go-to scorer.

On the second, we're a couple games in with a team of new faces; there's time for this to shake out. But it probably needs to be resolved for this to be a great team with a real chance to win it all. I'm still having flashbacks to Wes and company hanging out on the perimeter, content to watch our season end while Scoop dribbled and drove. Great teams need a guy who demands to take shots in a close game. Battle could be that guy. Maybe one of the point guards could. But we'll see.

Lydon is unequivocally going to be that guy. Chemistry seems really good. I'm shocked how focused everyone is.

 

[Cowtown]

I disagree with most of this. It doesn't have to be a surprise to be effective. And we don't even have to have turnovers.

So far we have had the pace of the game in our favor. One reason is the press has baited the lesser teams into quicker shots.

We have the athletes to press. And we have the unusual luxury of 15=20 fouls at center. And we have great athletic depth this year.

I hope we press every game and get better at it. I would like to see some added adjustments and twists.

You're entitled to that. Different strokes ...

 

[FrancoPizza]

I disagree with most of this. It doesn't have to be a surprise to be effective. And we don't even have to have turnovers..

This idea that a press is only effective if it turns the ball over is missing the forest for the trees. I challenge anyone to find another program at any level hat embraces the 1-3-1. The perennially good pressing teams that come to mind -- Villanova, Louisville -- employ a base 1-2-2 and the players understand how they need to slide together as a unit. A good press is a team defense first. Trunk monkey is the football equivalent of playing 5 corners on an island with absolutely no safety help. It's every man for himself. It's very ironic because it's the polar opposite of how JB coaches the 2-3.

 

[Cusefan0307]

This idea that a press is only effective if it turns the ball over is missing the forest for the trees. I challenge anyone to find another program at any level hat embraces the 1-3-1. The perennially good pressing teams that come to mind -- Villanova, Louisville -- employ a base 1-2-2 and the players understand how they need to slide together as a unit. A good press is a team defense first. Trunk monkey is the football equivalent of playing 5 corners on an island with absolutely no safety help. It's every man for himself. It's very ironic because it's the polar opposite of how JB coaches the 2-3.

Ask Gonzaga and UVA how the 1-3-1 is.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Ask Gonzaga and UVA how the 1-3-1 is.

Pretty flippant. Right up there with how many wins do you have. If a press has to be mothballed for 98% of the year to retain any intrinsic value then it's a pretty ineffective tool. Do you even watch the games? The press results in the other team breaking it with ease 9 out of 10 times. If it was any good JB would trust it against the better teams on our schedule. Guarantee we won't see it against Wisconsin unless we're in desperation mode.

 

[PhatOrange]

What's the point of having chukwu play goalie in the press if he has to cover his guy halfway down the court? This happened on numerous occasions where he wasn't able to recover to defend the basket. This man-to-man press is so fundamentally unsound that it makes me cry. You'd think JB would adopt some zone principles in his press coverage team like every other organized basketball team in the world.

They use the press just to speed the game up. if you noticed last night, SCState ran the shot clock down to zero on like 3 or 4 possessions in a row, so we went to the press. It sped the game up and then it was all over.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Pretty flippant. Right up there with how many wins do you have. If a press has to be mothballed for 98% of the year to retain any intrinsic value then it's a pretty ineffective tool.

JB is going to game plan depending on the type of team we have to play this year. We aren't going to press every minute. Louisville doesn't even do that. Either does Nova. The games early in the year are to practice and get better. You aren't seeing the final product. I don't get why that's difficult for you to understand that we will get better. We need to be ready to play against multiple styles. This team can do that, but we need to get better and practice multiple styles of play.

You want to press against UNC or Duke? That'll be a layup drill. You play teams like that in the halfcourt.

You play UVA or Wisconsin, you speed them up because they are comfortable in the halfcourt.

Nova/Louisville play a 1-2-2 because they usually don't have the shot blockers we have. They need multiple guys back there to protect the basket. Fortunately for us usually every team we have has multiple players that can block shots.

 

[AZOrange]

Pretty flippant. Right up there with how many wins do you have. If a press has to be mothballed for 98% of the year to retain any intrinsic value then it's a pretty ineffective tool. Do you even watch the games? The press results in the other team breaking it with ease 9 out of 10 times. If it was any good JB would trust it against the better teams on our schedule. Guarantee we won't see it against Wisconsin unless we're in desperation mode.

JB isn't using the press right now to get turnovers. If we get them that's an added bonus but that's not the main reason

 

[RF2044]

They use the press just to speed the game up. if you noticed last night, SCState ran the shot clock down to zero on like 3 or 4 possessions in a row, so we went to the press. It sped the game up and then it was all over.

Spot on. A press accomplishes several things, not just forcing turnovers [which is obviously a desirable outcome]. Other reasons for pressing include:

• Speeding up game tempo
• Making the opponent expend energy
• Exploiting an opponents lack of depth to tire them out, which makes it more difficult to execute at the end of the game
• Forcing turnovers
• Creating easy scoring opportunities on run-outs
• Making the opponent burn clock bringing the ball up court so that by the time things settle into half court offense, they have less time to work with
• Capitalizing on an opponent's shaky ball handling
• Capitalizing on an opponent having inexperienced players in the game -- as speeding the game up can lead to mistakes

 

[orangefog]

A press accomplishes several things, not just forcing turnovers [which is obviously a desirable outcome]. Other reasons for pressing include:

• Speeding up game tempo
• Making the opponent expend energy
• Exploiting an opponents lack of depth to tire them out, which makes it more difficult to execute at the end of the game
• Forcing turnovers
• Creating easy scoring opportunities on run-outs
• Making the opponent burn clock bringing the ball up court so that by the time things settle into half court offense, they have less time to work with
• Capitalizing on an opponent's shaky ball handling
• Capitalizing on an opponent having inexperienced players in the game -- as speeding the game up can lead to mistakes

Agreed, and against these smaller teams that have sometimes up to 4 guards on the floor, it doesn't produce much in any of those categories, but it does get us more ready to execute against the more typical teams we will face in league play. Most teams won't have 4 capable ball handlers on the floor at the same time.

 

[dasher]

Even being out-rebounded by 26, last year's team led until the final minute and lost in OT. And I think, even early we may be a better team than we were last year.

Where was the game played last year? I think we can win but the idea that we are going to rout them on their floor is asking a bit much to me.

 

[orangefog]

Where was the game played last year? I think we can win but the idea that we are going to rout them on their floor is asking a bit much to me.

I agree, but it could happen. Our guys could be fired up and hitting on all cylinders. Nobody is paying attention, this is the first game that they will have the big stage, I hope they recognize it and seize the opportunity.

 

[dasher]

I agree, but it could happen. Our guys could be fired up and hitting on all cylinders. Nobody is paying attention, this is the first game that they will have the big stage, I hope they recognize it and seize the opportunity.

We get out of there with a win and I am very happy.

 

[orangefog]

We get out of there with a win and I am very happy.

Me too, that is the bottom line, but I am hoping for more.

 

[NYCorange]

To me, our biggest weakness against good teams is likely to be ball-handling/ability to break teams down off the dribble. A lot of our lineups currently feature only one good ball handler(our starting lineup for example), and the rest really only have 2 at most. It's hard to score against really good defences unless you can break your man down off the dribble or score in the post. We definitely can't do the latter. We could go something like Gillon, Howard, Battle, Lydon, Chukwu, but that leaves off two important seniors in Robey and AWIII. The balance is two of Howard, Gillon, and Battle at all times, but you end up sacrificing something real.

 

[AZOrange]

To me, our biggest weakness against good teams is likely to be ball-handling/ability to break teams down off the dribble. A lot of our lineups currently feature only one good ball handler(our starting lineup for example), and the rest really only have 2 at most. It's hard to score against really good defences unless you can break your man down off the dribble or score in the post. We definitely can't do the latter. We could go something like Gillon, Howard, Battle, Lydon, Chukwu, but that leaves off two important seniors in Robey and AWIII. The balance is two of Howard, Gillon, and Battle at all times, but you end up sacrificing something real.

Dc and Robey can score in the post and we get a lot of points going to the hoop

 

[hoopsupstate]

What's the point of having chukwu play goalie in the press if he has to cover his guy halfway down the court? This happened on numerous occasions where he wasn't able to recover to defend the basket. This man-to-man press is so fundamentally unsound that it makes me cry. You'd think JB would adopt some zone principles in his press coverage team like every other organized basketball team in the world.

They don't have a clue how to press. They don't press with a purpose. They just double the first pass and hope. There's no rotations and no understanding of when to gamble. Good pressing teams do not have to steal the ball. You need to keep the ball in front of you and give yourself to make a play. NUMBER 1, you don't want to give up layups or open threes. This team is giving up both. Good pressing teams can wear you down without ever stealing the ball. They aren't close to tipping the ball from behind, because once the ball gets out of the original trap they are no where to be found. You don't gamble on good double teams. When you get a great double team, everyone has to rotate up to take away the next pass including the 5 man. The farther you are away from the double team, the farther you can be from the man you're guarding. Our up front people have to play the passing lanes and not get so close to the offensive player. With a great double team, they should be able to anticipate a pass to a couple of players. The all sell out on a single player. They need to figure out when to double the first pass or wait until you get a good double team opportunity. The big fellow has been a non factor on the back of the press.

 

[SWC75]

Where was the game played last year? I think we can win but the idea that we are going to rout them on their floor is asking a bit much to me.

I think the venue means more to mediocre teams than it does to good or bad ones.

 

[SWC75]

They don't have a clue how to press. They don't press with a purpose. They just double the first pass and hope. There's no rotations and no understanding of when to gamble. Good pressing teams do not have to steal the ball. You need to keep the ball in front of you and give yourself to make a play. NUMBER 1, you don't want to give up layups or open threes. This team is giving up both. Good pressing teams can wear you down without ever stealing the ball. They aren't close to tipping the ball from behind, because once the ball gets out of the original trap they are no where to be found. You don't gamble on good double teams. When you get a great double team, everyone has to rotate up to take away the next pass including the 5 man. The farther you are away from the double team, the farther you can be from the man you're guarding. Our up front people have to play the passing lanes and not get so close to the offensive player. With a great double team, they should be able to anticipate a pass to a couple of players. The all sell out on a single player. They need to figure out when to double the first pass or wait until you get a good double team opportunity. The big fellow has been a non factor on the back of the press.

 

[FrancoPizza]

They don't have a clue how to press. They don't press with a purpose. They just double the first pass and hope. There's no rotations and no understanding of when to gamble. Good pressing teams do not have to steal the ball. You need to keep the ball in front of you and give yourself to make a play. NUMBER 1, you don't want to give up layups or open threes. This team is giving up both. Good pressing teams can wear you down without ever stealing the ball. They aren't close to tipping the ball from behind, because once the ball gets out of the original trap they are no where to be found. You don't gamble on good double teams. When you get a great double team, everyone has to rotate up to take away the next pass including the 5 man. The farther you are away from the double team, the farther you can be from the man you're guarding. Our up front people have to play the passing lanes and not get so close to the offensive player. With a great double team, they should be able to anticipate a pass to a couple of players. The all sell out on a single player. They need to figure out when to double the first pass or wait until you get a good double team opportunity. The big fellow has been a non factor on the back of the press.

That's a pretty good breakdown of how just how embarrassing the press is - it's nice to know that there are at least a few posters who are brave enough to acknowledge this. I almost can't even call it a press with a straight face. It's more of a laboratory experiment in chaos theory. Everyone keeps saying it's a work in progress, as if JB's scheme is actually different than what we're seeing... that it's just a matter of him coaching them up. This is the same scheme that he's employed for over 30 years. There's a certain contingent of fans that turn a blind eye to the team's warts when we're winning. This has the potential to be a great team because we have shooters, offensive balance and depth. Our team success will be in spite of the defensive shortcomings. The zone has a history of improving over the course of the season, so there's hope there, but God forbid we try or need to use the press against better competition.

#notmypress

 

[AZOrange]

Where was the game played last year? I think we can win but the idea that we are going to rout them on their floor is asking a bit much to me.

I don't know why but I feel like is our UNC game from 2010, where we just pound a team that's ranked and everyone says "whoa"

 

[AZOrange]

That's a pretty good breakdown of how just how embarrassing the press is - it's nice to know that there are at least a few posters who are brave enough to acknowledge this. I almost can't even call it a press with a straight face. It's more of a laboratory experiment in chaos theory. Everyone keeps saying it's a work in progress, as if JB's scheme is actually different than what we're seeing... that it's just a matter of him coaching them up. This is the same scheme that he's employed for over 30 years. There's a certain contingent of fans that turn a blind eye to the team's warts when we're winning. This has the potential to be a great team because we have shooters, offensive balance and depth. Our team success will be in spite of the defensive shortcomings. The zone has a history of improving over the course of the season, so there's hope there, but God forbid we try or need to use the press against better competition.

#notmypress

If there's one thing a guy named francopizza would know is how to properly press in basketball.

 

[OrangeFoo]

As a few others have pointed out... our O is very jumper heavy. There will come a night where the J's don't fall, then what? Gillon needs to prove he can finish against high-major length and athleticism and Howard has to prove he can run the offense against the same. Lydon needs to show that he can effectively operate out of the high post so we have a good zone offense that's not reliant on threes. It would also be nice if white with all of his size had some sort of back to the basket game we could ISO. I also think the movement and spacing on offense is off... I feel like they don't know how to play off each other yet. Hopefully the week off will help them focus but I am nervous that there is such a big gap before our first true test and road game to boot.

Not to pat myself on the back or anything... I will say there were a few a posters who disagreed with me here.

For all the 100 points we scored this team has seemed very disjointed the few times I've seen them.