Notre Dame / ACC

[TerryD]

I just read an article on another site that basically states that the CFB Playoff will redefine what it means to be an elite program.
So, let's say that its 2022, and you are Notre Dame and you have yet to crack the code to make the college football playoff. Substitute Texas or UCLA or Michigan for that matter. If you don't reach the Final Four, you are not elite. No matter that your history says. Seems about right.

ND has always been elite in their own minds. And they have a great historical "argument." (personally, I don't like ND, but I do admire their status in CFB).

But 8-10 years into this CFB playoff, no one else is going to be sharing that view if ND keeps "missing" with various 1-, 2- or 3-loss seasons. The criteria has changed and ND is going to have to adapt. Get in the Final Four or else you lose status as an Elite Program.

That is why I was really bummed ND lost that heartbreaker to Stanford 2 weeks ago. If the Irish had won the game, yet missed the CFB playoff (likely they would have still ranked behind OU) with just one loss (to #1 Clemson by 2 points), that would have essentially kick started the process of ND self reflection.

Would ND have joined the ACC in 2016? No way, of course not. But if they have 2-3 close misses in a decade and get excluded from the playoff each time, they'll suddenly realize that independence ain't all its cracked up to be. Especially when the college football pundits begin to laugh at, as opposed to lauding, their independence.

And what of the multitude of other college football programs, in conferences, that will never even sniff a playoff berth, ever?

Are none of them "elite programs", even if members of a P5 conference?

Texas, Michigan or UCLA to use your examples? Michigan has won 1/2 a title in the last sixty some years.

What are they? Non-elite, it seems. There is apparently no advantage to them to be a conference member.

Pundits? Wow. I cannot imagine anyone caring what any of them have to say, ever, about anything.

I have never heard of a weaker reason to do anything.

Anyway, ND is not joining a football conference.

Until ND moves its next two basketball home games to MSG I wish we never played them in basketball.

ND should be kicked out of the ACC and go play in the Big East with their fellow Catholic schools. They didn't want to stay with them even though in the Big East era they always sided with the BB onlies. The 5 games can go away. I have absolutely nothing good to say about Notre Dame.

Sorry, but this is message board fan fantasy that has about zero chance of even being considered by the ACC in the real world.

The ACC is still a shaky conference and is in no position of power to issue any ultimatums to anyone. So, I don't see any chance of such a thing being directed towards ND by the conference.

 

[TheCusian]

And what of the multitude of other college football programs, in conferences, that will never even sniff a playoff berth, ever? Are none of them "elite programs", even if members of a P5 conference? Texas, Michigan or UCLA to use your examples? Michigan has won 1/2 a title in the last sixty some years. What are they? Non-elite, it seems. There is apparently no advantage to them to be a conference member. Pundits? Wow. I cannot imagine anyone caring what any of them have to say, ever, about anything. I have never heard of a weaker reason to do anything. Anyway, ND is not joining a football conference. Sorry, but this is message board fan fantasy that has about zero chance of even being considered by the ACC in the real world. The ACC is still a shaky conference and is in no position of power to issue any ultimatums to anyone. So, I don't see any chance of such a thing being directed towards ND by the conference.

I think you're underestimating the strength of the ACC and the importance of the league to ND's non-football interests.

 

[TerryD]

ND was in the Big East for less than twenty years. I don't believe that it sided with the basketball scho

I think you're underestimating the strength of the ACC and the importance of the league to ND's non-football interests.

We can agree to disagree.

The ACC payouts per team are low and will be lower going forward than the SEC and Big Ten.

Those two conferences may take advantage of this growing income disparity as/after the GOR's expire to poach schools.

That is not "strength". The ACC is the hunted, not the hunter. The ACC cannot dictate to ND, sorry.

The addition of ND paid for its other sports and added $14 million per year to the ACC's coffers via ESPN.

(that doesn't count increased ticket sales at Pitt, Virginia, etc...when ND comes to town).


http://www.bcinterruption.com/acc-e...on-notre-dame-to-acc-tv-media-rights-contract

 

[TheCusian]

ND was in the Big East for less than twenty years. I don't believe that it sided with the basketball scho We can agree to disagree. The ACC payouts per team are low and will be lower going forward than the SEC and Big Ten. Those two conferences may take advantage of this growing income disparity as/after the GOR's expire to poach schools. That is not "strength". The ACC is the hunted, not the hunter. The ACC cannot dictate to ND, sorry. The addition of ND paid for its other sports and added $14 million per year to the ACC's coffers via ESPN. (that doesn't count increased ticket sales at Pitt, Virginia, etc...when ND comes to town). http://www.bcinterruption.com/acc-e...on-notre-dame-to-acc-tv-media-rights-contract

I don't think they'll boot ND. The deal works for both sides currently. (I do think if Clemson wins the National Championship and the ACC has 2 in 3 years - watch out. Perception is s funny thing. It drives viewers, which is $$.)

But make no mistake, it is mutually beneficial. If you want to admit that or not.

 

[Alsacs]

Sorry, but this is message board fan fantasy that has about zero chance of even being considered by the ACC in the real world.

The ACC is still a shaky conference and is in no position of power to issue any ultimatums to anyone. So, I don't see any chance of such a thing being directed towards ND by the conference.

Whatever. The fact you type this just proves my point. If SU never played ND again in the regular season of any sport again I wouldn't shed a single tear. The ND arrogance is mind boggling. The ACC is not shaky right now. ND needs the ACC more than the ACC needs 5 games.

ND didn't treat the Big East football teams with respect. They are being forced to play 5 ACC teams annually for the other sports. Independence is gone ND might not be in a FB conference but they only control 7 games now not 12.

Don't give me this real world crap. If the ACC wanted to issue an ultimatum tomorrow they could and ND would park its Olympic sports in the Big East and schedule 12 teams again.

I don't give a crap about the ND program I hate the arrogance of the message you just gave. I honest to God would rather ND be in the Big Ten and help them get more money than have to hear the arrogance of ND fans.

 

[Alsacs]

I don't think they'll boot ND. The deal works for both sides currently. (I do think if Clemson wins the National Championship and the ACC has 2 in 3 years - watch out. Perception is s funny thing. It drives viewers, which is $$.)

But make no mistake, it is mutually beneficial. If you want to admit that or not.

Honestly just stop. This thread needs to be blown up and the words Notre Dame have to become like skout or rovals on this board.

 

[TheCusian]

Honestly just stop. This thread needs to be blown up and the words Notre Dame have to become like skout or rovals on this board.

Concur. I'll chill. Can't take this lunacy on any more.

 

[TerryD]

I don't think they'll boot ND. The deal works for both sides currently. (I do think if Clemson wins the National Championship and the ACC has 2 in 3 years - watch out. Perception is s funny thing. It drives viewers, which is $$.)

But make no mistake, it is mutually beneficial. If you want to admit that or not.

I never claimed otherwise. I am a status quo guy. I like the deal as it is. No complaints here.

 

[ForCuseSake]

The number of ND fans posting their crusade on Syracusefan.com is ridiculously annoying (not ridiculously good looking like Charley Loeb).

Lock it up before my hard earned Likes get lost to deletion.

 

[bpo57]

I don't think they'll boot ND. The deal works for both sides currently. (I do think if Clemson wins the National Championship and the ACC has 2 in 3 years - watch out. Perception is s funny thing. It drives viewers, which is $$.)

But make no mistake, it is mutually beneficial. If you want to admit that or not.

I can buy that the current arrangement is mutually beneficial. That's why it makes zero sense for the ACC to issue any ultimatums to ND.

 

[TheCusian]

I can buy that the current arrangement is mutually beneficial. That's why it makes zero sense for the ACC to issue any ultimatums to ND.

FRANKENTHREAD! Back from the dead!

The answer you seek has already been posted in the thread. I will not give this thing more life.*

* Not conceding victory either. Just tired. Truth is that they are probably both closer to joining the ACC than any fan wants to admit and further away than I'd like. Don't care that much.

Enjoy your independence league championship trophy!

 

[WoadBlue]

I never claimed otherwise. I am a status quo guy. I like the deal as it is. No complaints here.

And before this deal, you were certain that ND would never make such a deal that had any conference office scheduling 5 football games per year for ND. You loved that now dead and buried status quo of true independence and had diamond-hard certainty it would always remain.

 

[WoadBlue]

I don't give a crap about the ND program I hate the arrogance of the message you just gave. I honest to God would rather ND be in the Big Ten and help them get more money than have to hear the arrogance of ND fans.

Notre Dame cannot afford to get that extra money in the Big Ten. There is a Texas fan who calls the BT the Borg. If you know Star Trek Next Generation you know what he means. If you know the BT you know why ND, a small private school, can never risk turning to the BT. The result would be that ND would be assumed by the BT Borg, digested into its entity, which always will be first and foremost about Ohio St - Michigan (for sports) and huge flagship and/or land grant state schools (for academics).

You know how giant international corporations buy extremely profitable and unique small companies and then absorb them so that they lose everything that made them worth having so that what they once were now benefits the behemoth that swallowed them, and the once unique company is dead in all but name and stock options? That's what the BT Borg would do to ND, the entire university and not just its football.

The University of Notre Dame can never risk that.

And frankly, if it were stupid enough to risk it, it would deserve the fate.

 

[baggerbob]

And what of the multitude of other college football programs, in conferences, that will never even sniff a playoff berth, ever?

Are none of them "elite programs", even if members of a P5 conference?

Texas, Michigan or UCLA to use your examples? Michigan has won 1/2 a title in the last sixty some years.

What are they? Non-elite, it seems. There is apparently no advantage to them to be a conference member.

Pundits? Wow. I cannot imagine anyone caring what any of them have to say, ever, about anything.

I have never heard of a weaker reason to do anything.

Anyway, ND is not joining a football conference.




Sorry, but this is message board fan fantasy that has about zero chance of even being considered by the ACC in the real world.

The ACC is still a shaky conference and is in no position of power to issue any ultimatums to anyone. So, I don't see any chance of such a thing being directed towards ND by the conference.

In reality you aren't Independent, when you are obligated to play 5 games not of your choosing, against the ACC teams every year. You are a member, just one who plays 5 games, instead of 8. Adding to that you play Navy every year, so you only have 6 games you can schedule on your own, not Independent.

 

[bpo57]

FRANKENTHREAD! Back from the dead!

The answer you seek has already been posted in the thread. I will not give this thing more life.*

* Not conceding victory either. Just tired. Truth is that they are probably both closer to joining the ACC than any fan wants to admit and further away than I'd like. Don't care that much.

Enjoy your independence league championship trophy!

My bad. I responded before seeing the posts about retiring the thread. I'm fine with that as I just responded to the crazy theories and never initiated any thoughts on the matter.

 

[bpo57]

Notre Dame cannot afford to get that extra money in the Big Ten. There is a Texas fan who calls the BT the Borg. If you know Star Trek Next Generation you know what he means. If you know the BT you know why ND, a small private school, can never risk turning to the BT. The result would be that ND would be assumed by the BT Borg, digested into its entity, which always will be first and foremost about Ohio St - Michigan (for sports) and huge flagship and/or land grant state schools (for academics).

You know how giant international corporations buy extremely profitable and unique small companies and then absorb them so that they lose everything that made them worth having so that what they once were now benefits the behemoth that swallowed them, and the once unique company is dead in all but name and stock options? That's what the BT Borg would do to ND, the entire university and not just its football.

The University of Notre Dame can never risk that.

And frankly, if it were stupid enough to risk it, it would deserve the fate.

You're absolutely right on this. And that's why it hasn't happened and won't happen.

 

[dasher]

I never claimed otherwise. I am a status quo guy. I like the deal as it is. No complaints here.

LOL the times are changing. When I was young, ND refused to play in bowl games. When I was young, ND refused to red shirt. The day is coming when the P5 will say to ND. One thing is for certain, ND will never get the benefit in the bowl playoff series. No playoff game will mean no entry in the final four. And has been already said, you are indy when you have to pay 5 games a year against one league.

 

[bpo57]

LOL the times are changing. When I was young, ND refused to play in bowl games. When I was young, ND refused to red shirt. The day is coming when the P5 will say to ND. One thing is for certain, ND will never get the benefit in the bowl playoff series. No playoff game will mean no entry in the final four. And has been already said, you are indy when you have to pay 5 games a year against one league.

Yeah OU was impressive in their playoff game.

 

[Alsacs]

Yeah OU was impressive in their playoff game.

You like trolling people you disagree with. I have no problems with their opinions but looking to pick this fight just makes no sense unless you enjoy debating.

Oklahoma was the only the Big XII contender out of Baylor/Oklahoma State/TCU that could have gotten into the CFB playoff with 1 loss. They played @Tennessee, and played a hard schedule. If Stanford only had 1 loss the Sooners wouldn't likely have made the CFB playoff field.

Michigan State passed Oklahoma at that last weekend for 3rd. The committee said Michigan State's 12-1 was better than Oklahoma's 11-1 even though I think and most people think Oklahoma is the better team.

The Big XII is at a disadvantage of the other 4 P5 leagues have champions with 12-1 records. That extra game matters and also Oklahoma is lucky they were the only Big XII that finished 8-1 in conference play. Being an outright champion was huge for them.

I know you can figure this stuff. The French team from Indiana will be at a disadvantage unless they go 12-0. 11-1 and aren't guaranteed anything. If they finished 11-1 they would have finished 5th this year. They wouldn't have gotten in over OU this year as the conference title would have been the tiebreaker.

 

[TheCusian]

You like trolling people you disagree with. I have no problems with their opinions but looking to pick this fight just makes no sense unless you enjoy debating. Oklahoma was the only the Big XII contender out of Baylor/Oklahoma State/TCU that could have gotten into the CFB playoff with 1 loss. They played @Tennessee, and played a hard schedule. If Stanford only had 1 loss the Sooners wouldn't likely have made the CFB playoff field. Michigan State passed Oklahoma at that last weekend for 3rd. The committee said Michigan State's 12-1 was better than Oklahoma's 11-1 even though I think and most people think Oklahoma is the better team. The Big XII is at a disadvantage of the other 4 P5 leagues have champions with 12-1 records. That extra game matters and also Oklahoma is lucky they were the only Big XII that finished 8-1 in conference play. Being an outright champion was huge for them. I know you can figure this stuff. The French team from Indiana will be at a disadvantage unless they go 12-0. 11-1 and aren't guaranteed anything. If they finished 11-1 they would have finished 5th this year. They wouldn't have gotten in over OU this year as the conference title would have been the tiebreaker.

These ND guys are literally incapable of understanding 12 > 11. It's the whole argument.

 

[bpo57]

You like trolling people you disagree with. I have no problems with their opinions but looking to pick this fight just makes no sense unless you enjoy debating.

Oklahoma was the only the Big XII contender out of Baylor/Oklahoma State/TCU that could have gotten into the CFB playoff with 1 loss. They played @Tennessee, and played a hard schedule. If Stanford only had 1 loss the Sooners wouldn't likely have made the CFB playoff field.

Michigan State passed Oklahoma at that last weekend for 3rd. The committee said Michigan State's 12-1 was better than Oklahoma's 11-1 even though I think and most people think Oklahoma is the better team.

The Big XII is at a disadvantage of the other 4 P5 leagues have champions with 12-1 records. That extra game matters and also Oklahoma is lucky they were the only Big XII that finished 8-1 in conference play. Being an outright champion was huge for them.

I know you can figure this stuff. The French team from Indiana will be at a disadvantage unless they go 12-0. 11-1 and aren't guaranteed anything. If they finished 11-1 they would have finished 5th this year. They wouldn't have gotten in over OU this year as the conference title would have been the tiebreaker.

Totally disagree with you. ND at 11-1 would have gotten in over OU if they had not played such a sloppy game against BC and that is why they dropped from 4 to 6. That killed them. The Texas comparison would have really hurt OU. One loss on a two point conversion at #1 is not keeping ND out. We'll never know but I don't get why you can be so cocksure of that.

My personal opinion as to why OU dropped to 4 is that they didn't want OU playing Alabama in Dallas (huge advantage for OU) so they conveniently moved them down a notch.

 

[bpo57]

These ND guys are literally incapable of understanding 12 > 11. It's the whole argument.

Except that wouldn't have applied to a UNC had they won the ACC championship and been undefeated in their conference at 12-1. Oops.

 

[Alsacs]

Totally disagree with you. ND at 11-1 would have gotten in over OU if they had not played such a sloppy game against BC and that is why they dropped from 4 to 6. That killed them. The Texas comparison would have really hurt OU. One loss on a two point conversion at #1 is not keeping ND out. We'll never know but I don't get why you can be so cocksure of that.

My personal opinion as to why OU dropped to 4 is that they didn't want OU playing Alabama in Dallas (huge advantage for OU) so they conveniently moved them down a notch.

You can't say the sloppy game against BC. If ND beats Stanford and finishes 11-1. They don't get in over Oklahoma.

Your opinion is fine but Oklahoma didn't play and Michigan State did. That theory makes just as much sense.

ND is going to need to be 12-0 to be guaranteed in the CFB playoffs. 1 loss and it becomes harder than anyone else because they have no conference title. I don't want to debate this anymore. You opinion can be different and could be right. I honestly don't give a chit about ND football.

 

[TheCusian]

Except that wouldn't have applied to a UNC had they won the ACC championship and been undefeated in their conference at 12-1. Oops.

Round and round we go. Answer to this was already discussed.

 

[longtimefan]

Totally disagree with you. ND at 11-1 would have gotten in over OU if they had not played such a sloppy game against BC and that is why they dropped from 4 to 6. That killed them. The Texas comparison would have really hurt OU. One loss on a two point conversion at #1 is not keeping ND out. We'll never know but I don't get why you can be so cocksure of that.

My personal opinion as to why OU dropped to 4 is that they didn't want OU playing Alabama in Dallas (huge advantage for OU) so they conveniently moved them down a notch.

If they had not moved OU down to 4, MSU would have been #4. The Spartans had a much better record than ND, even if the Irish had beaten Stanford. So, ND would still be out.