Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly " on Irish scheduling outside of ACC: 'You're really limited'"

[Alsacs]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...cheduling-outside-of-acc-youre-really-limited


Unlike the agreement Notre Dame had with the Big East to play 3 Big East teams annually this new agreement with the ACC for 5 games annually the Irish basically have a conference schedule now like all other teams.

5 ACC teams, USC, Stanford, Navy means Notre Dame has 8 "conference" games now and only room for 4 "non-conference" games. I think Notre Dame is basically transitioning into an annual schedule for its fanbase. USC, Stanford, Navy and 5 ACC games are not going away and now Kelly all of a sudden is lamenting losing Michigan and Michigan State, but that is too bad as if Notre Dame's other sports want a good conference home Kelly's football program has to actually give something up unlike they had to when they were leeching off the Big East.

 

[orange79]

Gee, that's really a shame. I feel bad for the guy

 

[SU68]

I feel that the powers-that-be at Notre Dame have already made the strategic decision to join the ACC for all sports in about five years and are basically easing their fans into the concept.

 

[TheCusian]

http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...cheduling-outside-of-acc-youre-really-limited Unlike the agreement Notre Dame had with the Big East to play 3 Big East teams annually this new agreement with the ACC for 5 games annually the Irish basically have a conference schedule now like all other teams. 5 ACC teams, USC, Stanford, Navy means Notre Dame has 8 "conference" games now and only room for 4 "non-conference" games. I think Notre Dame is basically transitioning into an annual schedule for its fanbase. USC, Stanford, Navy and 5 ACC games are not going away and now Kelly all of a sudden is lamenting losing Michigan and Michigan State, but that is too bad as if Notre Dame's other sports want a good conference home Kelly's football program has to actually give something up unlike they had to when they were leeching off the Big East.

"Leaching" off of the Big East involved losing to "lesser" teams and exposing their mediocrity.

 

[ImperialOrange]

"Leaching" off of the Big East involved losing to "lesser" teams and exposing their mediocrity.

I'm sure they view the ACC as a risk for the same reason. They are setting themselves up to lose to "lessor" teams that they aren't expected to lose to. Losing to anyone but FSU, or Clemson will hurt their perception by the pollsters much worse than losing to Michigan, USC, etc.

Side note, Brian Kelly is a horrible human being.

 

[Alsacs]

"Leaching" off of the Big East involved losing to "lesser" teams and exposing their mediocrity.

Leeching off the Big East means they didn't play any Big East football teams home/home except Pitt after Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College left for the ACC. Notre Dame had an unwritten agreement to play 3 Big East teams every year and did no such thing because their wasn't a written agreement and that is a mistake the ACC didn't allow to happen.
Also, Notre Dame didn't have a problem hosting all those football teams in basketball, convincing Syracuse to give up its independence in Lacrosse so Notre Dame could have a blueblood in the sport in a Big East lacrosse league, Notre Dame was one of the 4 schools along with Pittsburgh, Rutgers, and Georgetown who voted to decline the ESPN 1 billion dollar offer for an extension even though Notre Dame football had its own contract. That decision ulimately led to the Big East gambling and dying when Syracuse/Pitt announced their departures and when Syracuse/Pitt announced their departure for the ACC the chairman of the Big East expansion committee was the Notre Dame President who didn't resign from the position until Notre Dame made its agreement with the ACC official.

Notre Dame's time in the Big East is the very definition of a parasite leaching off another being. The ACC has Notre Dame 5/8's a member which is a LOT better than the Big East and Notre Dame can't join another conference until 2023 unless its the ACC for all-sports.

 

[HtownOrange]

Leeching off the Big East means they didn't play any Big East football teams home/home except Pitt after Miami, Virginia Tech, Boston College left for the ACC. Notre Dame had an unwritten agreement to play 3 Big East teams every year and did no such thing because their wasn't a written agreement and that is a mistake the ACC didn't allow to happen.
Also, Notre Dame didn't have a problem hosting all those football teams in basketball, convincing Syracuse to give up its independence in Lacrosse so Notre Dame could have a blueblood in the sport in a Big East lacrosse league, Notre Dame was one of the 4 schools along with Pittsburgh, Rutgers, and Georgetown who voted to decline the ESPN 1 billion dollar offer for an extension even though Notre Dame football had its own contract. That decision ulimately led to the Big East gambling and dying when Syracuse/Pitt announced their departures and when Syracuse/Pitt announced their departure for the ACC the chairman of the Big East expansion committee was the Notre Dame President who didn't resign from the position until Notre Dame made its agreement with the ACC official.

Notre Dame's time in the Big East is the very definition of a parasite leaching off another being. The ACC has Notre Dame 5/8's a member which is a LOT better than the Big East and Notre Dame can't join another conference until 2023 unless its the ACC for all-sports.

I do not recall the agreement to play 3 Big East teams ever being in writing. Also, they did play Syracuse, WVU and USF Home and Home in recent history and they offered to play Rutgers and UConn in pro stadiums and each rejected ND out of hand rather than negotiate a deal. I am not a ND fan but they were better to the Big East than advertised, expecially when one considers they were NEVER joining the Big East in football.

As to the overall complaint by Kelly, PPtttthhhhhhhhhhhhtttttt!

ND played Pitt annually (or at least 8 of 10 years), played BC nearly annually and played ACC and other Big East teams each season. In reality, ND may have given up one net game in the overall scheme, but usually played at least 4 games vs. the East Coast P5 teams. Add in Navy and Army and ND had a schedule with 3-6 east coast teams.

 

[Alsacs]

I do not recall the agreement to play 3 Big East teams ever being in writing. Also, they did play Syracuse, WVU and USF Home and Home in recent history and they offered to play Rutgers and UConn in pro stadiums and each rejected ND out of hand rather than negotiate a deal. I am not a ND fan but they were better to the Big East than advertised, expecially when one considers they were NEVER joining the Big East in football.

As to the overall complaint by Kelly, PPtttthhhhhhhhhhhhtttttt!

ND played Pitt annually (or at least 8 of 10 years), played BC nearly annually and played ACC and other Big East teams each season. In reality, ND may have given up one net game in the overall scheme, but usually played at least 4 games vs. the East Coast P5 teams. Add in Navy and Army and ND had a schedule with 3-6 east coast teams.

First off I never said the agreement to play 3 Big East teams was in writing read my post. The mistake the Big East was agreeing to a gentleman's agreement with Notre Dame to play 3 Big East teams annually. The damn promise is the Big East leaked minutes online from 2004 after announced their expansion for 2005. The ACC made sure when the Irish agreed to 5 annual games that the agreement was in writing so Notre Dame couldn't get around it.

Second you are beyond wrong on Notre Dame playing Syracuse, WVU, USF home/home recently. Syracuse played Notre Dame in a 2 for 1. 2003(Carrier Dome), 2005(South Bend), 2008(South Bend). Notre Dame last played West Virginia in a home/home in 2000 and 2001(yeah that is recent only 13 years ago), and the Irish DID NOT PLAY South Florida home/home it was a 1 game series in South Bend that was played in the 2011 season opener not home/home. I don't get how you can spin and defend Notre Dame one bit with facts so out of whack.

They WERE NEVER GOOD to the Big East. They leeched and benefited WAY MORE than they gave. Nobody gives a crap Notre Dame basketball or Olympic sports. The only Big East football team they treated as equals was Pittsburgh so they could recruit Pennsylvania for recruits. They didn't have to join Big East Football to help, but they didn't give any Big East football teams home/homes from 2005 on except Pitt and that is when the Big East football teams needed help nationally.

 

[Bayside44]

First off I never said the agreement to play 3 Big East teams was in writing read my post. The mistake the Big East was agreeing to a gentleman's agreement with Notre Dame to play 3 Big East teams annually. The damn promise is the Big East leaked minutes online from 2004 after announced their expansion for 2005. The ACC made sure when the Irish agreed to 5 annual games that the agreement was in writing so Notre Dame couldn't get around it.

Second you are beyond wrong on Notre Dame playing Syracuse, WVU, USF home/home recently. Syracuse played Notre Dame in a 2 for 1. 2003(Carrier Dome), 2005(South Bend), 2008(South Bend). Notre Dame last played West Virginia in a home/home in 2000 and 2001(yeah that is recent only 13 years ago), and the Irish DID NOT PLAY South Florida home/home it was a 1 game series in South Bend that was played in the 2011 season opener not home/home. I don't get how you can spin and defend Notre Dame one bit with facts so out of whack.

They WERE NEVER GOOD to the Big East. They leeched and benefited WAY MORE than they gave. Nobody gives a crap Notre Dame basketball or Olympic sports. The only Big East football team they treated as equals was Pittsburgh so they could recruit Pennsylvania for recruits. They didn't have to join Big East Football to help, but they didn't give any Big East football teams home/homes from 2005 on except Pitt and that is when the Big East football teams needed help nationally.

There were plenty of programs that were never good to or for the Big East. Notre Dame wasn't one of them.

 

[Alsacs]

There were plenty of programs that were never good to or for the Big East. Notre Dame wasn't one of them.

Your entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to my opinion. IMO, Notre Dame benefited more from the Big East than they actually contributed to the conference. The fact they along with Pitt, Rutgers were voices that got the Big East to decline the 1 billion dollar offer from ESPN when they just a basketball-playing member just shows how dumb/out-of-whack the Big East was. I honestly don't see the big deal about calling a spade a spade. Notre Dame does/did what was best for them I get that and don't blame them for doing so if they can get away with, but calling it out and drawing attention to it isn't a bad thing.

The ACC obviously learned from the Notre Dame/Big East gentleman's agreement and signed an ironclad contractual agreement so the same instances would not occur. Notre Dame did not live up to its gentleman's agreement with the Big East football members. They only played 1 football member home/home from 2005 Pittsburgh that is a fact, but the fact you say plenty of other programs were never good to or for the Big East means NOTHING as Notre Dame was a member of hybrid Big East Conference and voted with basketball schools to as long as it was beneficial to them and protect the status quo, but when it was time they jettisoned from the Big East when Syracuse/Pitt announced their intentions and didn't think twice. Notre Dame was able to negotiate with the Big East a withdrawal that required no exit fee and no wait to leave. I mean this a joke that you made the statement you made.

 

[HtownOrange]

First off I never said the agreement to play 3 Big East teams was in writing read my post. The mistake the Big East was agreeing to a gentleman's agreement with Notre Dame to play 3 Big East teams annually. The damn promise is the Big East leaked minutes online from 2004 after announced their expansion for 2005. The ACC made sure when the Irish agreed to 5 annual games that the agreement was in writing so Notre Dame couldn't get around it.

Second you are beyond wrong on Notre Dame playing Syracuse, WVU, USF home/home recently. Syracuse played Notre Dame in a 2 for 1. 2003(Carrier Dome), 2005(South Bend), 2008(South Bend). Notre Dame last played West Virginia in a home/home in 2000 and 2001(yeah that is recent only 13 years ago), and the Irish DID NOT PLAY South Florida home/home it was a 1 game series in South Bend that was played in the 2011 season opener not home/home. I don't get how you can spin and defend Notre Dame one bit with facts so out of whack.

They WERE NEVER GOOD to the Big East. They leeched and benefited WAY MORE than they gave. Nobody gives a crap Notre Dame basketball or Olympic sports. The only Big East football team they treated as equals was Pittsburgh so they could recruit Pennsylvania for recruits. They didn't have to join Big East Football to help, but they didn't give any Big East football teams home/homes from 2005 on except Pitt and that is when the Big East football teams needed help nationally.

My bad on the "written" part.

Still not sure how anyone can say a team was a leach when the fulfilled their agreement. ND plainly stated their football would NOT join the Big East and they fulfilled all of the obligations placed on them by joining in all other sports. The Big East obviously believed that it was to their benefit to allow ND in all sports other than football. I will gladly review actual data to show ND was a leech and provided no benefit to the Big East. As I recall they earned NCAA tourney credits, participated in all sports as agreed and did play some Big East teams in football.

As for ND benefiting from the Big East, I agree they did. Nobody joins a conference unless they will get more back than they put in. same as any other contract.

The overall point is that ND did what they agreed to do. As for Kelly, he's just blowing smoke. The ACC deal really does not hurt ND as alleged by Kelly. Feel free to hate ND all you want, I dislike them, but they did what they agreed to do with the Big East and they are doing what they agreed to do with the ACC.

 

[Bayside44]

Your entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to my opinion. IMO, Notre Dame benefited more from the Big East than they actually contributed to the conference. The fact they along with Pitt, Rutgers were voices that got the Big East to decline the 1 billion dollar offer from ESPN when they just a basketball-playing member just shows how dumb/out-of-whack the Big East was. I honestly don't see the big deal about calling a spade a spade. Notre Dame does/did what was best for them I get that and don't blame them for doing so if they can get away with, but calling it out and drawing attention to it isn't a bad thing.

The ACC obviously learned from the Notre Dame/Big East gentleman's agreement and signed an ironclad contractual agreement so the same instances would not occur. Notre Dame did not live up to its gentleman's agreement with the Big East football members. They only played 1 football member home/home from 2005 Pittsburgh that is a fact, but the fact you say plenty of other programs were never good to or for the Big East means NOTHING as Notre Dame was a member of hybrid Big East Conference and voted with basketball schools to as long as it was beneficial to them and protect the status quo, but when it was time they jettisoned from the Big East when Syracuse/Pitt announced their intentions and didn't think twice. Notre Dame was able to negotiate with the Big East a withdrawal that required no exit fee and no wait to leave. I mean this a joke that you made the statement you made.

Notre Dame is one of the top schools in the country for athletic fan support. They played Big East hoops at a high level, helped gate attendance and got games on the big channels unlike a whole slew of other schools that rode the gravy train. I cannot speak for Olympic sports but considering the general level they recruit at they clearly are good for competition. That really isn't opinion.

 

[HtownOrange]

There were plenty of programs that were never good to or for the Big East. Notre Dame wasn't one of them.

Temple, Rutgers,...

VA Tech was far more benefitted by the Big East than what they offered. They would still be way behind if not for the Big East.

 

[rrlbees]

There were plenty of programs that were never good to or for the Big East. Notre Dame wasn't one of them.

As much as I loath the whole ND mystique, they didn't leech off the BE anymore than the BE and it's programs leeched off them. It was a 2 way beneficial street. I bet BE teams made more money with ND than they would have with no ND. Silly to say ND used or leeched off the BE.

 

[baggerbob]

When they lose 2 or 3 games every year to the ACC, and find that a better way to the playoff is through a conference championship, they will join. It won't take more then 5 years, Notre Dames AD is a smart man, he knew they needed a few years to build up a common bond, and the 5 ganes a year does that.

 

[omniorange]

Your entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to my opinion. IMO, Notre Dame benefited more from the Big East than they actually contributed to the conference. The fact they along with Pitt, Rutgers were voices that got the Big East to decline the 1 billion dollar offer from ESPN when they just a basketball-playing member just shows how dumb/out-of-whack the Big East was. I honestly don't see the big deal about calling a spade a spade. Notre Dame does/did what was best for them I get that and don't blame them for doing so if they can get away with, but calling it out and drawing attention to it isn't a bad thing.

The ACC obviously learned from the Notre Dame/Big East gentleman's agreement and signed an ironclad contractual agreement so the same instances would not occur. Notre Dame did not live up to its gentleman's agreement with the Big East football members. They only played 1 football member home/home from 2005 Pittsburgh that is a fact, but the fact you say plenty of other programs were never good to or for the Big East means NOTHING as Notre Dame was a member of hybrid Big East Conference and voted with basketball schools to as long as it was beneficial to them and protect the status quo, but when it was time they jettisoned from the Big East when Syracuse/Pitt announced their intentions and didn't think twice. Notre Dame was able to negotiate with the Big East a withdrawal that required no exit fee and no wait to leave. I mean this a joke that you made the statement you made.

I guess, I don't get why the pent-up frustration to this day over a tv contract that was never signed (and more importantly that even if it had been signed wasn't likely to change what did happen in terms of conference realignment) and a gentlemen's agreement by one ND AD that the Big East commissioner stupidly didn't get in writing and was negated by the next ND AD prior to it being implemented?

Thankfully, the best thing that came out of the above is that the ACC commissioner did get everything in writing, plus more.

Cheers,
Neil

 

[TerryD]

I do not recall the agreement to play 3 Big East teams ever being in writing. Also, they did play Syracuse, WVU and USF Home and Home in recent history and they offered to play Rutgers and UConn in pro stadiums and each rejected ND out of hand rather than negotiate a deal. I am not a ND fan but they were better to the Big East than advertised, expecially when one considers they were NEVER joining the Big East in football.

As to the overall complaint by Kelly, PPtttthhhhhhhhhhhhtttttt!

ND played Pitt annually (or at least 8 of 10 years), played BC nearly annually and played ACC and other Big East teams each season. In reality, ND may have given up one net game in the overall scheme, but usually played at least 4 games vs. the East Coast P5 teams. Add in Navy and Army and ND had a schedule with 3-6 east coast teams.

The idea that ND played Army frequently in the past thirty years is pretty much an urban myth, perpetuated by non-ND fans on message boards.

In fact, ND has only played Army four (4) times since 1985 (going on 29 seasons):

http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/independents/notre_dame/opponents_records.php?teamid=188


As far as Kelly's comments, he was asked a question and gave an answer. Tempest in a teapot.

 

[TerryD]

IF they lose 2 or 3 games every year to the ACC, and find that a better way to the playoff is through a conference championship, they still won't join. Notre Dame's AD is a smart man, he knows that ND has the best of both worlds with the current set up.

I fixed your post. I think that only fans of other ACC schools believe that ND will ever join the conference for football.

There is no real advantage for ND to join. There are significant disadvantages. My prediction is that the status quo will continue indefinitely.

I think that the current, formal ND/ACC relationship is a good one for both sides.

 

[rrlbees]

I fixed your post. I think that only fans of other ACC schools believe that ND will ever join the conference for football. There is no real advantage for ND to join. There are significant disadvantages. My prediction is that the status quo will continue indefinitely. I think that the current, formal ND/ACC relationship is a good one for both sides.

Until the playoffs are made up of conference members only.

 

[orange79]

As much as I loath the whole ND mystique, they didn't leech off the BE anymore than the BE and it's programs leeched off them. It was a 2 way beneficial street. I bet BE teams made more money with ND than they would have with no ND. Silly to say ND used or leeched off the BE.

Wasn't a big fan of the 'deal', but having the ND FB team available opened up several bowls for the BE that they never would have sniffed without ND.

 

[TerryD]

Until the playoffs are made up of conference members only.

Link to anything that even suggests that this is going to be the rule?

Why isn't that way now?

 

[rrlbees]

Link to anything that even suggests that this is going to be the rule? Why isn't that way now?

In due time. You're probably one of the ones who thought the idea of a P4 or P5 was hogwash.

 

[orange79]

Link to anything that even suggests that this is going to be the rule?

Why isn't that way now?

I think it is a very real possibility once the P5 'autonomy' legislation is passed. Possibility, not probability. I wouldn't be surprised if it happened, or if it didn't. My own guess - 55% it happens and forces ND's hand, 45% it doesn't.

 

[Alsacs]

Notre Dame is one of the top schools in the country for athletic fan support. They played Big East hoops at a high level, helped gate attendance and got games on the big channels unlike a whole slew of other schools that rode the gravy train. I cannot speak for Olympic sports but considering the general level they recruit at they clearly are good for competition. That really isn't opinion.

If you believe what you wrote I can't tell you not to as its your opinion. However, Notre Dame's basketball benefited more from playing in the Big East than the Big East needing Notre Dame as a member. Hell most Notre Dame fans don't even care about Notre Dame basketball and care more about Notre Dame spring football than they do their hoops program.
The only reason Notre Dame was admitted as a basketball member in the Big eAST was the Football schools got Rutgers and West Virginia added as all-sports members in 1995 and the basketball onlies wanted another basketball only in Notre Dame so the football schools would never out-number the basketball schools on voting members. Notre Dame wasn't added because they helped gate for basketball or got the games on the bigger channels. Big East basketball was a godsend for Notre Dame. I mean you can have your opinion, but I would say IMO that is heavily full of spin to make the best out of a terrible situation. I think Syracuse should demand that Notre Dame's home basketball games be played at Madison Square Garden and then maybe I will say we are even.

 

[Bayside44]

If you believe what you wrote I can't tell you not to as its your opinion. However, Notre Dame's basketball benefited more from playing in the Big East than the Big East needing Notre Dame as a member. Hell most Notre Dame fans don't even care about Notre Dame basketball and care more about Notre Dame spring football than they do their hoops program.
The only reason Notre Dame was admitted as a basketball member in the Big eAST was the Football schools got Rutgers and West Virginia added as all-sports members in 1995 and the basketball onlies wanted another basketball only in Notre Dame so the football schools would never out-number the basketball schools on voting members. Notre Dame wasn't added because they helped gate for basketball or got the games on the bigger channels. Big East basketball was a godsend for Notre Dame. I mean you can have your opinion, but I would say IMO that is heavily full of spin to make the best out of a terrible situation. I think Syracuse should demand that Notre Dame's home basketball games be played at Madison Square Garden and then maybe I will say we are even.

Notre Dame could've played wherever they wanted, that they played in the BE was helpful to the BE.

I saw truckloads of Subway Alumni hauling it to Baltimore today, and the closest they have come to Indiana was owning a John Mellencamp CD.

Spin what you want, you can look at the gate and TV of them verses everyone else not named Syracuse.