Notre Dame coach Brian Kelly " on Irish scheduling outside of ACC: 'You're really limited'"

[KaiserUEO]

Aside from Al's impressive rants against nod, lets go back to the original point, kelly crying over the 5 game ACC commitment.

This is an easy one...he's playing to the base, to the old guard, to the $$$men, to the people who will one day fire him.

This means nothing. No nd coach has ever been in charge of he schedule, the coaches job is to beat who's on it.

Smart thing for them to do is to join full time.

 

[Alsacs]

Notre Dame could've played wherever they wanted, that they played in the BE was helpful to the BE.

I saw truckloads of Subway Alumni hauling it to Baltimore today, and the closest they have come to Indiana was owning a John Mellencamp CD.

Spin what you want, you can look at the gate and TV of them verses everyone else not named Syracuse.

Notre Dame could not have played wherever they wanted to in 1995. They were independent in basketball until they joined the Big East. Maybe they could have joined the Atlantic 10 or a midmajor conference, but they wouldn't have been added as member to any power conference unless they brought their football program with them. Notre Dame was lucky that the Big East had added 2 new members full members Rutgers and West Virginia and the basketball onlies wanted another basketball only for voting reasons. I agree Notre Dame has a lot of fans for football, but their brand for basketball or lacrosse is not like its football brand.
In Indiana, the Irish have a lot of bandwagon local fans and they are Indiana Hoosiers basketball fans after football season. The Irish couldn't have played wherever they wanted as the B1G wouldn't give the deal the Big East gave and the ACC wouldn't give the Irish home for all its other sports unless they signed a contract guaranteeing they would play 5 annual football games against ACC schools.

I am not crazy and even Kaiser who disagrees with my points realizes that my positions are fair even if you choose disagree with them. My position may not be popular, but its legitimate.

 

[Moontan]

Until the playoffs are made up of conference members only.

... and only from conferences which have a championship game.

It may not be officially written that way, but the Little XII will be coerced into having one after their champion miss out on one of the four playoff spots. This does not mean that they'll expand. If they support the concept that a conference can determine its championship game participants however it likes (thereby removing the need for divisions), then they can do so as well.

 

[djorange1989]

Kelly needs to stop whining. Oh no, they don't have a lot of flexibility in their schedule. You mean, like a team who plays in a conference? Wah. The guy helps cover up a sexual assault by one of his players which helps lead to the victim's suicide. He sends a grad assistant up on a crane to film practice with high winds and the kid gets killed when the crane collapses. He is lucky he isn't in jail, he needs to

 

[TheCusian]

Link to anything that even suggests that this is going to be the rule? Why isn't that way now?

If you don't think ND was hedging their bets in the playoff/P5 era, I have a golden dome to sell you (it may be gold plated, FYI).

It is mutually beneficial, for now. If the P5 gains more power and autonomy - they will use it against ND at the first real reason to do so (1st snub out of the playoff? 1st overreach by an AD if one program vs a conference commish?)

What if the playoff and P5 end up catapulting CFB to even higher ratings, placing more importance on conf affiliation and the race to an auto-bid? And the $ from independence dries up? What if the conference channels and digital broadcasts start to grow and become even bigger sources of cash? What if the traditional TV market ends up thoroughly disrupted due to new technology?

The smugness comes from believing things won't be changing. Things are always changing, especially in CFB and it's river of TV money.

 

[Alsacs]

If you don't think ND was hedging their bets in the playoff/P5 era, I have a golden dome to sell you (it may be gold plated, FYI).

It is mutually beneficial, for now. If the P5 gains more power and autonomy - they will use it against ND at the first real reason to do so (1st snub out of the playoff? 1st overreach by an AD if one program vs a conference commish?)

What if the playoff and P5 end up catapulting CFB to even higher ratings, placing more importance on conf affiliation and the race to an auto-bid? And the $ from independence dries up? What if the conference channels and digital broadcasts start to grow and become even bigger sources of cash? What if the traditional TV market ends up thoroughly disrupted due to new technology?

The smugness comes from believing things won't be changing. Things are always changing, especially in CFB and it's river of TV money.

I will say this the P5 won't push Notre Dame into a conference because its like Mutual Assured Destruction(MAD). The B1G, ACC both want Notre Dame in their conference and the SEC doesn't really care about Notre Dame, but they have a sibling alliance with the ACC and have a dislike for the arrogance of the B1G. The Pac-12 is aligned with B1G at its core and is in the backseat to the SEC vs. B1G war.

The Big XII is sorta the 5th wheel who like the ACC is kinda in the backseat to the SEC vs. B1G war. The Big XII is only P5 without a known preference in the B1G vs. SEC war because they don't which conference is more of a threat to them in the future.

The B1G/ACC will not do anything to Notre Dame that will force the Irish to join one conference over the other. The Irish have given their "verbal" to the ACC, but until they sign the paper committing full-time the Irish could go to the B1G even though their fanbase hates the B1G more than any conference. I think the Irish realize that scheduling is going to get tougher and tougher with these bloated conferences that is why they took the 5 game deal from the ACC.

The Irish will likely play 5 ACC games, USC, Stanford, Navy and 1 Big XII team Texas/Oklahoma type, 1 B1G team either Purdue/Michigan State, BYU type team, and 1 home game they will likely buy each season. Their won't be any pressure to force Notre Dame into a conference from the other conferences as the selection committee won't care about conference affiliation as long as the Irish play a tough enough schedule which they will do most season. If the SEC pushed Notre Dame into a conference it could push them into the B1G and they don't want that. Delany has tried to force Notre Dame into the B1G by destabilizing the ACC, but only Maryland and their financial cash strapped mess of an Athletic Department took a the invitation and the ACC actually upgraded on the field with Louisville in the revenue sports, but the ACC did lose a market. The B1G was unsuccessful in forcing Notre Dame's hand hopefully the ACC will get the Irish to eventually up its commitment from 5 annual games to 6 games and its gets closer to the 8 to be a full member. This deal with the ACC is step in the right direction, but its not going to happen for a while.

 

[sabach]

Another week, another thread on Notre Dame.

 

[TerryD]

I will say this the P5 won't push Notre Dame into a conference because its like Mutual Assured Destruction(MAD). The B1G, ACC both want Notre Dame in their conference and the SEC doesn't really care about Notre Dame, but they have a sibling alliance with the ACC and have a dislike for the arrogance of the B1G. The Pac-12 is aligned with B1G at its core and is in the backseat to the SEC vs. B1G war.

The Big XII is sorta the 5th wheel who like the ACC is kinda in the backseat to the SEC vs. B1G war. The Big XII is only P5 without a known preference in the B1G vs. SEC war because they don't which conference is more of a threat to them in the future.

The B1G/ACC will not do anything to Notre Dame that will force the Irish to join one conference over the other. The Irish have given their "verbal" to the ACC, but until they sign the paper committing full-time the Irish could go to the B1G even though their fanbase hates the B1G more than any conference. I think the Irish realize that scheduling is going to get tougher and tougher with these bloated conferences that is why they took the 5 game deal from the ACC.

The Irish will likely play 5 ACC games, USC, Stanford, Navy and 1 Big XII team Texas/Oklahoma type, 1 B1G team either Purdue/Michigan State, BYU type team, and 1 home game they will likely buy each season. Their won't be any pressure to force Notre Dame into a conference from the other conferences as the selection committee won't care about conference affiliation as long as the Irish play a tough enough schedule which they will do most season. If the SEC pushed Notre Dame into a conference it could push them into the B1G and they don't want that. Delany has tried to force Notre Dame into the B1G by destabilizing the ACC, but only Maryland and their financial cash strapped mess of an Athletic Department took a the invitation and the ACC actually upgraded on the field with Louisville in the revenue sports, but the ACC did lose a market. The B1G was unsuccessful in forcing Notre Dame's hand hopefully the ACC will get the Irish to eventually up its commitment from 5 annual games to 6 games and its gets closer to the 8 to be a full member. This deal with the ACC is step in the right direction, but its not going to happen for a while.

Thanks. That was what I have been trying to say. You said it much better.

Nobody but fans on message boards and some football coaches without any say/power care that ND is not in a football conference.

The other conference commissioners and the networks are just fine with ND as it is and are glad to include ND ($$$) in any playoff scenario.

ND and the status quo will...remain the status quo, indefinitely. NBC is not going anywhere. The conferences are not going to force ND's hand. ND and the ACC are co-belligerents (not quite allies) in the Realignment Wars against the Big Ten.

 

[Scooch]

I'd like to "limit" Terry D's signature photo, that's for damn sure.

 

[GoSU96]

I am not crazy .

You sure about that?

 

[Alsacs]

You sure about that?

If you feel I am I recommend you put me on block as I have no need to get into a discussion with you. Congrats you really contributed to this thread with your message. You don't like me and I have no need for you if you think I am crazy my advice is to block me as if I felt someone was crazy I wouldn't want to read their opinions.

 

[TheCusian]

Thanks. That was what I have been trying to say. You said it much better. Nobody but fans on message boards and some football coaches without any say/power care that ND is not in a football conference. The other conference commissioners and the networks are just fine with ND as it is and are glad to include ND ($$$) in any playoff scenario. ND and the status quo will...remain the status quo, indefinitely. NBC is not going anywhere. The conferences are not going to force ND's hand. ND and the ACC are co-belligerents (not quite allies) in the Realignment Wars against the Big Ten.

The only thing that will continue indefinitely is the arrogance of ND fans and administrators. Things change - why would they enter into any agreement with a conference? The environment changed, so they changed.

 

[Btstimpy]

I will say this the P5 won't push Notre Dame into a conference because its like Mutual Assured Destruction(MAD). The B1G, ACC both want Notre Dame in their conference and the SEC doesn't really care about Notre Dame, but they have a sibling alliance with the ACC and have a dislike for the arrogance of the B1G. The Pac-12 is aligned with B1G at its core and is in the backseat to the SEC vs. B1G war.

The Big XII is sorta the 5th wheel who like the ACC is kinda in the backseat to the SEC vs. B1G war. The Big XII is only P5 without a known preference in the B1G vs. SEC war because they don't which conference is more of a threat to them in the future.

The B1G/ACC will not do anything to Notre Dame that will force the Irish to join one conference over the other. The Irish have given their "verbal" to the ACC, but until they sign the paper committing full-time the Irish could go to the B1G even though their fanbase hates the B1G more than any conference. I think the Irish realize that scheduling is going to get tougher and tougher with these bloated conferences that is why they took the 5 game deal from the ACC.

The Irish will likely play 5 ACC games, USC, Stanford, Navy and 1 Big XII team Texas/Oklahoma type, 1 B1G team either Purdue/Michigan State, BYU type team, and 1 home game they will likely buy each season. Their won't be any pressure to force Notre Dame into a conference from the other conferences as the selection committee won't care about conference affiliation as long as the Irish play a tough enough schedule which they will do most season. If the SEC pushed Notre Dame into a conference it could push them into the B1G and they don't want that. Delany has tried to force Notre Dame into the B1G by destabilizing the ACC, but only Maryland and their financial cash strapped mess of an Athletic Department took a the invitation and the ACC actually upgraded on the field with Louisville in the revenue sports, but the ACC did lose a market. The B1G was unsuccessful in forcing Notre Dame's hand hopefully the ACC will get the Irish to eventually up its commitment from 5 annual games to 6 games and its gets closer to the 8 to be a full member. This deal with the ACC is step in the right direction, but its not going to happen for a while.

You sound like Frank the Tank here. What you are suggesting is consistent with his opinions in his blog. As far as I'm concerned Notre Dame can sit in this configuration with the ACC for as long as they want. What I don't want is the downside of this 8 games with 2 divisions of 7 schools and 1 crossover scheduling problem where we have to go many years without playing the schools in the other division. I don't want the cause of this to be because Notre Dame is stuck in this configuration with the ACC, and we can't get to 16 for better scheduling.

The ACC could add team 16 from UConn or Cincinnati as well as a football only like Navy or BYU to take Notre Dame's spot, and the league could get to 16 and get beyond this issue. Notre Dame could stay in this scheduling contract for forever, and the football only could be on a scheduling contract to coincide. I know this is Big East like, but it fixes a scheduling issue.

As for the SEC vs B1G, the demographics of the country are going to increasingly tilt toward the SEC for football and away from the Big Ten. The ACC will also benefit from the same demographics. With the ACC and the SEC working together to protect each other from the Big Ten makes any worries about the Big Ten diminish over time. The Big Ten has a tremendous amount of work to prop up its two recent additions even with cable boxes. The recent ACC additions have come in and hit the ground running without much work at all. I can't speak for Syracuse, Pittsburgh, or Notre Dame. But I don't have the impression that any of them think they are in a foreign league.

There will be nostalgic laments by some Notre Dame fans about diminished scheduling of Midwestern Big Ten rivals in football. There is a thread about it on NDNation right now. Notre Dame has little history playing schools in Virginia and the Carolinas. Notre Dame does have history with BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Florida State though. Hopefully that will be enough to tide them over while the rest of us grow on them. I don't think Notre Dame's other sports have missed a beat in transitioning from the Big East to the ACC.

 

[Alsacs]

You sound like Frank the Tank here. What you are suggesting is consistent with his opinions in his blog. As far as I'm concerned Notre Dame can sit in this configuration with the ACC for as long as they want. What I don't want is the downside of this 8 games with 2 divisions of 7 schools and 1 crossover scheduling problem where we have to go many years without playing the schools in the other division. I don't want the cause of this to be because Notre Dame is stuck in this configuration with the ACC, and we can't get to 16 for better scheduling.

The ACC could add team 16 from UConn or Cincinnati as well as a football only like Navy or BYU to take Notre Dame's spot, and the league could get to 16 and get beyond this issue. Notre Dame could stay in this scheduling contract for forever, and the football only could be on a scheduling contract to coincide. I know this is Big East like, but it fixes a scheduling issue.

As for the SEC vs B1G, the demographics of the country are going to increasingly tilt toward the SEC for football and away from the Big Ten. The ACC will also benefit from the same demographics. With the ACC and the SEC working together to protect each other from the Big Ten makes any worries about the Big Ten diminish over time. The Big Ten has a tremendous amount of work to prop up its two recent additions even with cable boxes. The recent ACC additions have come in and hit the ground running without much work at all. I can't speak for Syracuse, Pittsburgh, or Notre Dame. But I don't have the impression that any of them think they are in a foreign league.

There will be nostalgic laments by some Notre Dame fans about diminished scheduling of Midwestern Big Ten rivals in football. There is a thread about it on NDNation right now. Notre Dame has little history playing schools in Virginia and the Carolinas. Notre Dame does have history with BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Miami, Georgia Tech, and Florida State though. Hopefully that will be enough to tide them over while the rest of us grow on them. I don't think Notre Dame's other sports have missed a beat in transitioning from the Big East to the ACC.

If I sound like Frank the Tank I will need to read what he says to say to see if I agree with that.

However, I think if he agrees with me or I with him its kinda the truth of the matter. The Pac-12, SEC haven't tried to get Notre Dame to join their conference. Its been the ACC, B1G, Big XII. The Big XII was never a contender in truth and they were used as a pawn by Notre Dame to get the best deal they could after the Big East disintegrated in 2011.

The B1G tried to trap Notre Dame their is no doubt about that. The B1G saw that after the Big East fell apart that ND only had 3 options Big XII, ACC, B1G. The B1G didn't think the ACC would get the deal with the Irish that it did when they agreed to 5 annual ACC football games in September 2012 and this caused Delany to realize the ACC was stronger than it thought and potentially Penn State could be a target for the ACC and so the B1G realized it had to go after the ACC as a response if they wanted to keep Penn State and still have a chance for Notre Dame.

Thus, the B1G tried to get Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina into the conference and then have Notre Dame feel boxed into living in the Southwest with Texahoma and small schools or be the 16th team in the B1G. Obviously, the B1G could only shake Maryland loose from the ACC so then Delany went with the cable boxes of NYC/NJ and Rutgers after it was obvious North Carolina and Virginia had no interest in leaving the ACC for the B1G.

Now the war is between the SEC and B1G. The ACC-SEC enjoy a family relationship. The SEC doesn't hate the ACC and looks at it like a brotherhood. They don't mind making fun of their brother or fighting and battling its brother(ACC) but they don't want any outsiders(B1G) thinking they can mess with their family. Also, mommy(ESPN) is telling the SEC to not let your brother(ACC) get beaten up. The B1G is a bully who used to have more power, but now with people migrating South are losing a little more influence as time passes. The B1G has a cousin in the Pac-12 because of the history of the Rose Bowl and those are aligned. The Big XII is the wildcard. They don't know which bully is more of threat their parents are split father(Fox) mother(ESPN) and don't know if they should support the SEC or B1G because either bully could in the future be a threat to them.

Notre Dame is the belle of the ball right now. B1G and ACC both want them in the conference, but they don't the other to get them if they can't have them for themselves. The ACC got Notre Dame to put the ring on, but until they say "I do" its not official and the status quo will be protected.

Right now the ACC has a good future, but Notre Dame isn't going to move full-time for a while. Getting them to increase their annual games against ACC schools from 5 to 6 should be the next step for the ACC to ask for.

 

[AZOrange]

The idea that ND played Army frequently in the past thirty years is pretty much an urban myth, perpetuated by non-ND fans on message boards. In fact, ND has only played Army four (4) times since 1985 (going on 29 seasons): http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/independents/notre_dame/opponents_records.php?teamid=188 As far as Kelly's comments, he was asked a question and gave an answer. Tempest in a teapot.

Yeah they probably play Air Force more than army...

 

[TerryD]

Yeah they probably play Air Force more than army...

ND has played Air Force only 6 times since 1996.


http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/independents/notre_dame/opponents_records.php?teamid=77

 

[TerryD]

I'd like to "limit" Terry D's signature photo, that's for damn sure.

I am a dual citizen of both the USA and the Republic of Ireland.

You don't like the flag of Ireland? Sorry about that (not really).

 

[AZOrange]

ND has played Air Force only 6 times since 1996. http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/div_ia/independents/notre_dame/opponents_records.php?teamid=77

A lot more than army!

 

[Scooch]

I am a dual citizen of both the USA and the Republic of Ireland.

You don't like the flag of Ireland? Sorry about that (not really).

No, it's your enormous picture of the ND campus that mucks up every thread.

 

[Btstimpy]

If I sound like Frank the Tank I will need to read what he says to say to see if I agree with that.

However, I think if he agrees with me or I with him its kinda the truth of the matter. The Pac-12, SEC haven't tried to get Notre Dame to join their conference. Its been the ACC, B1G, Big XII. The Big XII was never a contender in truth and they were used as a pawn by Notre Dame to get the best deal they could after the Big East disintegrated in 2011.

The B1G tried to trap Notre Dame their is no doubt about that. The B1G saw that after the Big East fell apart that ND only had 3 options Big XII, ACC, B1G. The B1G didn't think the ACC would get the deal with the Irish that it did when they agreed to 5 annual ACC football games in September 2012 and this caused Delany to realize the ACC was stronger than it thought and potentially Penn State could be a target for the ACC and so the B1G realized it had to go after the ACC as a response if they wanted to keep Penn State and still have a chance for Notre Dame.

Thus, the B1G tried to get Maryland, Virginia, North Carolina into the conference and then have Notre Dame feel boxed into living in the Southwest with Texahoma and small schools or be the 16th team in the B1G. Obviously, the B1G could only shake Maryland loose from the ACC so then Delany went with the cable boxes of NYC/NJ and Rutgers after it was obvious North Carolina and Virginia had no interest in leaving the ACC for the B1G.

Now the war is between the SEC and B1G. The ACC-SEC enjoy a family relationship. The SEC doesn't hate the ACC and looks at it like a brotherhood. They don't mind making fun of their brother or fighting and battling its brother(ACC) but they don't want any outsiders(B1G) thinking they can mess with their family. Also, mommy(ESPN) is telling the SEC to not let your brother(ACC) get beaten up. The B1G is a bully who used to have more power, but now with people migrating South are losing a little more influence as time passes. The B1G has a cousin in the Pac-12 because of the history of the Rose Bowl and those are aligned. The Big XII is the wildcard. They don't know which bully is more of threat their parents are split father(Fox) mother(ESPN) and don't know if they should support the SEC or B1G because either bully could in the future be a threat to them.

Notre Dame is the belle of the ball right now. B1G and ACC both want them in the conference, but they don't the other to get them if they can't have them for themselves. The ACC got Notre Dame to put the ring on, but until they say "I do" its not official and the status quo will be protected.

Right now the ACC has a good future, but Notre Dame isn't going to move full-time for a while. Getting them to increase their annual games against ACC schools from 5 to 6 should be the next step for the ACC to ask for.

Interesting analogy. I don't think that the B1G will be much of a match for the combined forces of the SEC and the ACC along with ESPN. That's why I think that the ACC has a bright future, and don't think we need to push Notre Dame to do anything it doesn't want to do. I do think we need to address this scheduling issue that causes debate about divisions, 9 games vs 8 games, not being able to play the teams from the other divisions because 14 is a bad number. At every spring meeting, the league revisits it and doesn't seem to get anywhere.

Fourteen is a bad number. 16 is a better number. If we never have the desire to go past 16 and want Notre Dame to eventually be part of the 16, then a football only would be required to temporarily have 16 without Notre Dame. That was my only thought on that. If it is Navy, then we get the sixth ACC game by default with Notre Dame. We can continue with the 5 game rotation and have Navy be annual. It is not a long term solution, but it gets the sixth game. Navy is preparing to be a football only in the American. The ACC wouldn't be much different from their perspective other than stronger competition.

 

[TerryD]

No, it's your enormous picture of the ND campus that mucks up every thread.

Sorry. It doesn't show up for me on any of my posts on the board. I never see it. I didn't even know it was there.

I will go to the settings and see if I can delete it. Thanks for letting me know.

P.S. I went there and see nothing under my signature info.

 

[SU2NASA]

You don't like the flag of Ireland? Sorry about that (not really).

These colors don't run.

 

[Alsacs]

Interesting analogy. I don't think that the B1G will be much of a match for the combined forces of the SEC and the ACC along with ESPN. That's why I think that the ACC has a bright future, and don't think we need to push Notre Dame to do anything it doesn't want to do. I do think we need to address this scheduling issue that causes debate about divisions, 9 games vs 8 games, not being able to play the teams from the other divisions because 14 is a bad number. At every spring meeting, the league revisits it and doesn't seem to get anywhere.

Fourteen is a bad number. 16 is a better number. If we never have the desire to go past 16 and want Notre Dame to eventually be part of the 16, then a football only would be required to temporarily have 16 without Notre Dame. That was my only thought on that. If it is Navy, then we get the sixth ACC game by default with Notre Dame. We can continue with the 5 game rotation and have Navy be annual. It is not a long term solution, but it gets the sixth game. Navy is preparing to be a football only in the American. The ACC wouldn't be much different from their perspective other than stronger competition.

Yeah the ACC isn't worried about the B1G right now, but they are aware the B1G tried to gut the conference. Obviously they failed, but the real future war is the B1G vs SEC.

I agree about the football problem. I think 16 is better than 14, but I think all expansion is done right now except maybe the Big XII adding BYU and one to three from Cincinnati, Central Florida, South Florida, UConn. The B1G would love to add 2 from the ACC or Big XII but its not happening right now.

Once the NCAA allows divisions to be de-emphaized for conference title games the 3+5+5 plan is likely to be discussed to fix the scheduling issue.

If I was the ACC I would offer Navy the Notre Dame deal for football. 5 games against ACC teams and give the ACC TV control of the Navy vs Notre Dame Navy home games. The ACC would get a team that would prepare teams for Georgia Tech and Navy could have access to all the ACC bowl games except the Orange Bowl.

 

[rrlbees]

Sorry. It doesn't show up for me on any of my posts on the board. I never see it. I didn't even know it was there. I will go to the settings and see if I can delete it. Thanks for letting me know. P.S. I went there and see nothing under my signature info.

I deleted it for you and you had to know it was there because it was added to your profile signature by you.

 

[Chip]

If I was the ACC I would offer Navy the Notre Dame deal for football. 5 games against ACC teams and give the ACC TV control of the Navy vs Notre Dame Navy home games. The ACC would get a team that would prepare teams for Georgia Tech.

If GT fires Paul Johnson, does the Navy deal end on the spot?