Now, pay attention to what Babers is saying

[Macky44]

90% of people in CNY will not trust in math. Reading the syracuse.com comments makes me understand that. I had a friend text me "people are acting like these guys won a national championship after beating Colgate. What a bunch of losers." I asked him if he had watched the game. Nope. Thought enthusiasm was hilarious, and yet didn't watch any of it.

To me, that's the typical person SU has to win over. People in CNY are way, way too cynical. They don't want to be fans of something, they want to be entertained by something. If Babers brings wins and entertainment, people will come. But they'll have no conception of statistical analysis or what he's trying to do, because they're just surface frontrunners. So out of a gate of 50,000, expect about 15-20,000 to boo those choices, because they don't care, and they don't understand.

This has to be the dumbest generalization ever about CNY. Do you realize that CNY diehards are the ONLY reason The Dome has 30,000+ for every single game? Move on to other dumb arguments please.

 

[KaiserUEO]

let me try to explain the going for it on 4th down to this crowd.

more James T. Kirk.

less Spock.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

This has to be the dumbest generalization ever about CNY. Do you realize that CNY diehards are the ONLY reason The Dome has 30,000+ for every single game? Move on to other dumb arguments please.

Do you realize I was not talking about the 30,000 that were there Friday night, and bleed orange and blue? Did you also not realize that I was talking about the other 20,000 that are out there who are not the diehard fans who have loved this team through thick and thin? Was my post not obvious enough? Of course I wasn't talking about those that were there Friday night, or the baked in 30,000 that we all would consider CNY diehards.

I made that clear in my post by saying that 15 to 20,000 in a gate of 50,000 wouldn't get what Babers was doing. That's not the diehards I'm talking about.

I'm a CNY native who is also a diehard, and am objective enough to realize that the rest of the people in CNY really aren't? Stop getting your panties in a wad, I wasn't talking about those that have bled orange and blue. I'm talking about the "wait and see" crowd. I didn't think that needed to be explained, as it was obvious in the first post those people were whom I was talking about.

 

[Millhouse]

Exactly. Not that this is different across any other fanbase, but a significant portion of SU "fans" are of the fair weather variety. They could swing either way -- they'll buy tickets if the product on the field is good, or they'll roundly ignore the program when we stink.

Casual fans want to see something exciting to justify their interest / time / investment, and Babers's style of play is just what was needed to reinvigorate some community interest in the fair weather fanbase. Hopefully, scoring more points and playing a more exciting brand of football will not only pique curiosity / interest from that group, but also get them back in the Dome to be a part of the program's resurgence. Sucked seeing 35K in the stands on Friday.

my biggest fear about Babers is that he won't understand why fair weather types don't have belief without evidence. there are just not that many people in syracuse and a good number of them who don't go to every game have been to 5 stinkers in a row. those casual fans are not that willing to suffer. babers is pretty intense and I hope he's able to give it a little time and understand the perspective of people who went to cincy in 2009, UConn in 2010, rutgers in 11, pitt in 12 (ugly win), pitt in 13, nc state in 14, pitt in 15

obviously cherry picking but there are going to be lots of people who a tremendous streak of games where they watch SU just suck so much on offense. they're going to need convincing and i think babers might get frustrated easily

these fans don't know the easy way is much less that we're finally doing things the easy way

 

[chakka3421]

my biggest fear about Babers is that he won't understand why fair weather types don't have belief without evidence. there are just not that many people in syracuse and a good number of them who don't go to every game have been to 5 stinkers in a row. those casual fans are not that willing to suffer. babers is pretty intense and I hope he's able to give it a little time and understand the perspective of people who went to cincy in 2009, UConn in 2010, rutgers in 11, pitt in 12 (ugly win), pitt in 13, nc state in 14, pitt in 15

obviously cherry picking but there are going to be lots of people who a tremendous streak of games where they watch SU just suck so much on offense. they're going to need convincing and i think babers might get frustrated easily

these fans don't know the easy way is much less that we're finally doing things the easy way

Winning covers all of the sins of the past...

 

[Millhouse]

Winning covers all of the sins of the past...

no it doesn't.

winning at home in entertaining fashion does. people pick up on patterns.

 

[ForCuseSake]

Exactly. Not that this is different across any other fanbase, but a significant portion of SU "fans" are of the fair weather variety. They could swing either way -- they'll buy tickets if the product on the field is good, or they'll roundly ignore the program when we stink.

Casual fans want to see something exciting to justify their interest / time / investment, and Babers's style of play is just what was needed to reinvigorate some community interest in the fair weather fanbase. Hopefully, scoring more points and playing a more exciting brand of football will not only pique curiosity / interest from that group, but also get them back in the Dome to be a part of the program's resurgence. Sucked seeing 35K in the stands on Friday.

Agree 100% with your thoughts on the casual fan but the part in bold can also apply to diehards like Chip & Millhouse.

Just callin em as I see em.

 

[Millhouse]

90% of people in CNY will not trust in math. Reading the syracuse.com comments makes me understand that.

this is unintentionally funny

 

[Millhouse]

As much as us nut jobs loved it, it will also appeal to the casual fan - which is what we need at the dome.

We need more of the "I don't know exactly what's going on, but it sure is fun to watch" crowd.

there are a lot of casual bills fans around who are very nostalgic for the no huddle days that are really sick of conservative punting. i swear it's not just me. hopefully word will spread

 

[chakka3421]

no it doesn't.

winning at home in entertaining fashion does. people pick up on patterns.

Now your being stubborn - basketball attendance was way down last year because we weren't winning.

Let it play out. 110-120,000 people at work and in my section were either at the fair or at season opener high school football games. SU should schedule away games for Labor Day weekend if they are worried about attendance. That's why they didn't advertise much - too much noise to compete against.

I've already seen adds for the Lville game. Good sign.

 

[CuseOnly]

Now your being stubborn - basketball attendance was way down last year because we weren't winning.

Let it play out. 110-120,000 people at work and in my section were either at the fair or at season opener high school football games. SU should schedule away games for Labor Day weekend if they are worried about attendance. That's why they didn't advertise much - too much noise to compete against.

I've already seen adds for the Lville game. Good sign.

Both basketball and football attendance were "down" last year because our 10 month AD changed the criteria for reporting and tabulating the attendance. Had zero to do with wins and losses.

He went with asses in seats instead of tickets sold and it cost us the attendance title for the first time in 10 years or so.

 

[CuseOnly]

I am also thinking that Coyle's attendance policy is why the attendance was so low at the game on Friday. I think Wildhack needs to change this ASAP.

Nobody calculates attendance this way in college, his "dealing in truth" is such BS.

Keep actual numbers internal and announce tickets sold. Fix the attendance problem, don't make it worse by letting every publication in the country advertise how bad our actual attendance is.

It wasn't a story until that A$$Clown changed the policy, now everyone is running with it making it worse.

 

[Millhouse]

Now your being stubborn - basketball attendance was way down last year because we weren't winning.

Let it play out. 110-120,000 people at work and in my section were either at the fair or at season opener high school football games. SU should schedule away games for Labor Day weekend if they are worried about attendance. That's why they didn't advertise much - too much noise to compete against.

I've already seen adds for the Lville game. Good sign.

i agree about the fair. there aren't enough people. but winning is not enough.

i've been meaning to do this so now's a good time

quick and dirty eyeballing

i went back to 2008 to figure out whether SU scored decently in games against real opponents. aka would i apologize to casual fan friends for bringing them to this game

i didn't keep track of individual games but i come up with 12 out of 49 games.

last 8 years, you have a 75% chance of seeing a crappy game against a real opponent

that means around 25% of people who've gone to 5 random games against name opponents the last 8 years have seen 5 stinkers (not exactly, if you went in 2012, you probably saw a good game, i'm just taking that overall percentage and playing with exponents)

i'm just hoping babers has some sympathy for these people. a lot of them don't know that baylor has a perfect system

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

this is unintentionally funny

No, it was intentional. Glad someone got the math joke.

 

[Millhouse]

I am also thinking that Coyle's attendance policy is why the attendance was so low at the game on Friday. I think Wildhack needs to change this ASAP.

Nobody calculates attendance this way in college, his "dealing in truth" is such BS.

Keep actual numbers internal and announce tickets sold. Fix the attendance problem, don't make it worse by letting every publication in the country advertise how bad our actual attendance is.

It wasn't a story until that A$$Clown changed the policy, now everyone is running with it making it worse.

coyle also hired babers so building that twit a statue is fine with me

 

[CuseOnly]

coyle also hired babers so building that twit a statue is fine with me

Let's not build that turncoat a statue because of Babers, let's build Babers one instead after he wins us an ACC championship.

 

[Macky44]

Do you realize I was not talking about the 30,000 that were there Friday night, and bleed orange and blue? Did you also not realize that I was talking about the other 20,000 that are out there who are not the diehard fans who have loved this team through thick and thin? Was my post not obvious enough? Of course I wasn't talking about those that were there Friday night, or the baked in 30,000 that we all would consider CNY diehards.

I made that clear in my post by saying that 15 to 20,000 in a gate of 50,000 wouldn't get what Babers was doing. That's not the diehards I'm talking about.

I'm a CNY native who is also a diehard, and am objective enough to realize that the rest of the people in CNY really aren't? Stop getting your panties in a wad, I wasn't talking about those that have bled orange and blue. I'm talking about the "wait and see" crowd. I didn't think that needed to be explained, as it was obvious in the first post those people were whom I was talking about.

There is a wait and see crowd with every fan base in every level of sports. Its inevitable. We have to live with it. There is too much CNY bashing from outsiders on this board. Its nauseating.

 

[Scooch]

There is a wait and see crowd with every fan base in every level of sports. Its inevitable. We have to live with it. There is too much CNY bashing from outsiders on this board. Its nauseating.

Aren't you the guy who's always bashing the students? If not my apologies.

 

[A Clockwork Orange]

There is a wait and see crowd with every fan base in every level of sports. Its inevitable. We have to live with it. There is too much CNY bashing from outsiders on this board. Its nauseating.

Just to be clear, I'm not an outsider. And I'm not bashing the diehards. Frankly, I'm not even bashing those that aren't diehards. What I said is the truth. The casual fan in CNY will not come unless they feel like they will be entertained by the product. They are frontrunners. They like winners. Most casual fans do. My lament is that the past 15 years degraded the fan base so much that there are only about 30-35,000 diehards left, instead of 45,ooo or so.

Even with population decline, CNY still has the capacity to draw 45-50,000 a game at home. The people are there. They just want to see a team that is consistently winning. It's frustrating, because if they got their asses in the seats, they might be the difference between a W-L on some days, and might be the difference between a top recruit signing or not because of the atmosphere.

The dome is one of the best football home field advantages when filled. I just wish some more of the causals would have taken heed in the "faith" mantra Babers was speaking. If they had more faith, and showed up without it being proven to them, this thing would get turned around even quicker.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

i agree about the fair. there aren't enough people. but winning is not enough.

i've been meaning to do this so now's a good time

quick and dirty eyeballing

i went back to 2008 to figure out whether SU scored decently in games against real opponents. aka would i apologize to casual fan friends for bringing them to this game

i didn't keep track of individual games but i come up with 12 out of 49 games.

last 8 years, you have a 75% chance of seeing a crappy game against a real opponent

that means around 25% of people who've gone to 5 random games against name opponents the last 8 years have seen 5 stinkers (not exactly, if you went in 2012, you probably saw a good game, i'm just taking that overall percentage and playing with exponents)

i'm just hoping babers has some sympathy for these people. a lot of them don't know that baylor has a perfect system

This is pretty interesting. I had been thinking about how long it will take to really rev up the fanbase. I think we need two full seasons of entertaining football for people to really think this is legit, and then year three the Dome is packed. We've just seen way too much crappy football for a long time.

Hadn't considered it from Babers point of view though. If the fans don't come back pretty quick that could become frustrating. He knows what he's got and what he's building, we've just got a bit of a damaged fanbase.

 

[007]

This is pretty interesting. I had been thinking about how long it will take to really rev up the fanbase. I think we need two full seasons of entertaining football for people to really think this is legit, and then year three the Dome is packed. We've just seen way too much crappy football for a long time.

Hadn't considered it from Babers point of view though. If the fans don't come back pretty quick that could become frustrating. He knows what he's got and what he's building, we've just got a bit of a damaged fanbase.

Yeah, I agree that we should not Dogpile on the section of the fanbase that might be shell shocked after going 40 below .500 over the last 14 seasons (or something like that), let alone suffered through the GRob era.

If Babers' Offense produces like it has every other place he has been HC, and we are at least competitive against the big boys, the Fans will come. I think we might even start to see that trend as early as this season...

IMO, the L'ville attendance numbers will give us an early look at the "faith" portion of the fanbase (diehards are already there). The "evidence" will hopefully follow.

 

[Macky44]

Just to be clear, I'm not an outsider. And I'm not bashing the diehards. Frankly, I'm not even bashing those that aren't diehards. What I said is the truth. The casual fan in CNY will not come unless they feel like they will be entertained by the product. They are frontrunners. They like winners. Most casual fans do. My lament is that the past 15 years degraded the fan base so much that there are only about 30-35,000 diehards left, instead of 45,ooo or so.

Even with population decline, CNY still has the capacity to draw 45-50,000 a game at home. The people are there. They just want to see a team that is consistently winning. It's frustrating, because if they got their asses in the seats, they might be the difference between a W-L on some days, and might be the difference between a top recruit signing or not because of the atmosphere.

The dome is one of the best football home field advantages when filled. I just wish some more of the causals would have taken heed in the "faith" mantra Babers was speaking. If they had more faith, and showed up without it being proven to them, this thing would get turned around even quicker.

I agree that The Dome could be the best advantage in all of college football when full. I apologize for judging your initial point incorrectly.

 

[Macky44]

Aren't you the guy who's always bashing the students? If not my apologies.

I am actually. It is well deserved.

 

[baggerbob]

coyle also hired babers so building that twit a statue is fine with me

Only because his 1st choice was Frost who wanted an easy out. Don't give him more credit then he deserves.

 

[sufandu]

Exactly. Not that this is different across any other fanbase, but a significant portion of SU "fans" are of the fair weather variety. They could swing either way -- they'll buy tickets if the product on the field is good, or they'll roundly ignore the program when we stink.

Casual fans want to see something exciting to justify their interest / time / investment, and Babers's style of play is just what was needed to reinvigorate some community interest in the fair weather fanbase. Hopefully, scoring more points and playing a more exciting brand of football will not only pique curiosity / interest from that group, but also get them back in the Dome to be a part of the program's resurgence. Sucked seeing 35K in the stands on Friday.

Living in the south what's amazing to me is the number of people that know nothing about football but still pay attention to it because it's part of their identity. I think CNY is different than that, which is all the more reason we need to win and put on a show doing it to fill the Dome.