Now that WVU is offically in the B12, it is time for TGD to make a stand

[kcsu]

We will play them again but never like we did in the past. With nine league games this just wont happen. I see us playing WVU but not for a long time could be ten years or more

 

[44PRIDE]

You're spitting some healthy venom towards Luck, and that's fine. But SU has built a history with WVU that predates both you and Oliver Luck.

I hope SU doesn't allow their personal feelings towards the current AD skew their longstanding relationship with WVU.

 

[kcsu]

It has nothing to do with the clown they have at AD it has to do with economics. SU will not be playing WVU outside of the big east for many years. Just will not happen as it makes zero sense for us to do so. We become PSU and will have no reason to schedule them for a long time. will we play them again yes but my bet is ten years or more

 

[Jasoncuse]

One because their AD shot his mouth off and yes I don't look kindly upon a senior official at a University doing that, but two, why would we want to help a team that is on the east coast when we have a perfect opportunity to shut them out of it? For the sake of playing a long time rival? Not me.

How does a game or two against Syracuse really help WVU and their east coast presence? They moved to a southwest/midwest conference, that's what they are now. Them playing us every few years or whatever isn't going to magically give them some eastern presence or entice kids from the east to go there. Playing games against OU, Texas and whoever is why kids will be going to WVU more than any game against SU would...

 

[rrlbees]

You're spitting some healthy venom towards Luck, and that's fine. But SU has built a history with WVU that predates both you and Oliver Luck.

I hope SU doesn't allow their personal feelings towards the current AD skew their longstanding relationship with WVU.

If you've actually read my posts, you would notice that is a side benefit. I focus on helping Suns program.

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[tep624]

Honestly Bees I don't think a game every other year in PA or CNY is really going to make a difference for WVU. They don't have a strong presence in recruiting in NE or NY and most of their Northern recruits come from PA and OH, which I think will still happen because of their proximity to those states.

If anything, being associated with a Texas heavy conference will help them expand their Texas recruiting. I expect they'll recruit less prospects from their current recruiting footprint for that reason alone.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

WVU can be replaced by someone as a "fun game". Not the same thing as moving 14 of the biggest OOC games out of the Dome. Not even close IMO. If WVU agrees to only play us in the Dome when we do play, OK maybe. Otherwise, adios Luck. Go tell your recruits they'll never play a road game in the eastern half of the USA. Maybe SU starts grabbing some of those kids they recruit. It's only a positive for SU and Pitt.

BTW, I said this a few weeks ago on the bball board. Some agreed some didn't. To each their own. But unless Gtown, Nova, SJU etc help us get out of the BE now (bball has ALL the power now in the BE), then I'd never play them again either. With us in the ACC, they need us more than we need them. They're either with us or against us.

I still think the recruiting thing is a farce. We would probably only play them every other year. I highly doubt that the difference in a recruit's decision will come down to ONE game in the state of NY over the course of four years.

And yeah, if there was a good reason to drop them from our future, I'm sure we could replace them. But the weak reasons you give for dropping perhaps our best current rivalry is ludicrous. When it comes to basketball, I don't agree that we should ever drop Georgetown, but at least I can see your point... I don't agree with it, because if we were in their shoes we too would be clinging to every dollar and season of relevancy before being cast off into the unknown... but at least there is an angle, "leverage." But the whole WVU thing is just about being bitter. Most of the greatest rivalries in sports feature that very thing. So again, I see all that as a plus, and a reason to go full bore into the future with WVU as a substantial partner.

 

[DomeStranger]

I'm with the crowd here and wish WVU was coming to the ACC. It's unfortunate that the only thing holding them back is their academics. Football wise they would fit in perfect in the ACC. Between Syracuse, VT, MD & Pitt, there would be no shortage of rivals for them. I hope it's possible for them to improve their numbers in hope of someday being more attractive to the ACC. Maybe in 5 years or so when Pitt & SU have voices in the ACC they may have a better chance at getting a spot.

As for Ollie's stupid spewings ... that's nothing new for him. I'd probably be bitter as hell also ... and I have been known to say things before I think on many occasions. Sometimes it's refreshing to hear human emotions come out of these admins instead of prepared PR statements.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Bah. They already have a presence. They are in W. VA. If they played SU each year they would they have one East Coast away game every other year. By the time they do the Big 12 plus Pitt plus Marshall they may not have room for SU.

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[JoeCollege]

Thats a great point Musky... What's the point of a rivalry trophy that's stuck behind glass the rest of its life?

Virginia Tech and Frank Beamer would love to be able to have a trophy, any trophy, to stick into a certain case behind glass the rest of its life.

 

[Moontan]

Bah. They already have a presence. They are in W. VA. If they played SU each year they would they have one East Coast away game every other year. By the time they do the Big 12 plus Pitt plus Marshall they may not have room for SU.

At some point in the future (5-10 years?) when things have settled down I expect there will be some sort of scheduling rotation in which the Schwartzwalder Trophy will be fought for once every three years or so. I mentioned this a couple of weeks ago. If (and that's the big question) WVU wants to continue playing both Pitt and Syracuse without totally overloading their schedule, they could alternate two years Backyard Brawl and one year vs. Syracuse. If they no longer choose to regularly schedule the game then it'll likely drop down to the frequency of current Syracuse-PSU games.

 

[longislandcuse]

You take every possible recruiting advantage you can get. This isnt basketball where we can pretty much pick and choose. We just now started getting 3 star recruits, were not exactly lighting the world on fire in terms of recruiting. BC sucks, WVU is on an island with a horrible travel schedule, UCONN and Rutgers are stuck in a garbage conference no big time player will want to go to, we're in the ACC so theres equal footing with Maryland now...so this leaves Pitt/PSU/ND as the big boy schools we have to recruit against.

Wouldnt you rather us be scooping up the Wayne Morgan's of the world with ease instead of fighting with UCONN for him, allowing us to be more attractive and focus our resources more on the Ishaq's and Easley's of the world? Honestly, we will probably get to that point eventually anyway, but I would rather move that process along asap.

 

[chakka3421]

We should always schedule OOC games in areas we recruit - it's just that simple.

 

[Stern]

But WV is in a major conference and would strengthen your schedule, not that SU is in or will be in a national championship hunt where SOS matters, but it is a game fans like. But I would rather play WV than play UCONN and Rutgers. Because there really is nothing to gain by playing those 2 going forward. WV, I wouldn't care one way or the other.

WV football is going to be fine, 3 or 4 road trips a year to the midwest/southwest isn't going to hurt their program all that much.

 

[EastBayCuse]

We should be grateful that WVA saved the BE after the 2005 season by winning the 2006 Sugar Bowl vs Georgia despite being heavy underdogs. The fball world was saying that the BE no longer deserved its AQ after Miami, VaTech and BC left for the ACC, and WVA proved the BE still had some good football. Indirectly, they helped both SU and Pitt keep their fball programs alive by giving the BE some fball credibility, so as far as I am concerned we owe them.
I can see Cuse playing them every other year (maximum), or every four years (minimum). Maybe Pitt should join in by playing them alternate years with Cuse.

 

[orange79]

One because their AD shot his mouth off and yes I don't look kindly upon a senior official at a University doing that, but two, why would we want to help a team that is on the east coast when we have a perfect opportunity to shut them out of it? For the sake of playing a long time rival? Not me.

This is exactly the same argument I made about BC in 2003. And got totally shot down. What a difference it makes when you're dealing from a position of strength. Feels good, too.

 

[swish7]

I have to completely disagree on this... you guys want to leave a rivalry just as it is getting good again. No longer the doormat, fueled by hypocritical and spiteful words from the opposition, and now capable of bringing cross-conference interest into a rivalry in which many Cuse fans STILL don't know we have a rivalry trophy. This is the time to capitalize on the rivalry, not back away for petty reasons.

I agree with Musky. WVU has been my favorite football rival in the BE. They also kept this league afloat when SU was the laughing stock of the NCAA. They deserve a bit of respect.

'Bees does make a good point regarding diminishing their recruiting presence. ...though I'm not sure how much one game every 3-5 years would matter.
What's going on with the exit fee/timeline? Are they somehow getting a better deal than Pitt and SU? How is that possible?

 

[EastBayCuse]

Bees has a good point about recruiting impact. I am with him on that aspect vs. Rut and UConn. But I think we give WVa some respect, both in fball and bball. I wouldn't mind seeing Cuse play UConn in bball once in a whilte but not fball. RU can be ignored.

 

[NKR1978]

I absolutely agree. They are 800 miles from their closest competitor. Why should we help anyone maintain an east coast presence?

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[OrangePA]

I guess I'm ambivalent on this one.

I would like to see the rivalry continue but I see your point.

I guess I'd lean toward keeping the tradition - there is so little of it left when it comes to SU Football.

 

[hoopsupstate]

West Virginia will try to keep their long standing series with Pitt. That's already one out of conference game. I doubt they will want to schedule 2 OOC games each year with both Pitt and SU. Their schedule would be too tough. We have ND, Penn State, USC, Minny, on our future schedules too. How many tough games do you really want to play.

 

[OburgCuse]

What tangible thing that helps their program does Pitt get from playing them? .

Well Luck was correct in this aspect. WVU puts a lot of butts in the Heinz Fields seats when they play at Pitt and Pitt probably can't turn that down.

 

[rrlbees]

Honestly Bees I don't think a game every other year in PA or CNY is really going to make a difference for WVU. They don't have a strong presence in recruiting in NE or NY and most of their Northern recruits come from PA and OH, which I think will still happen because of their proximity to those states.

If anything, being associated with a Texas heavy conference will help them expand their Texas recruiting. I expect they'll recruit less prospects from their current recruiting footprint for that reason alone.

i said su. pitt and other acc teams like md. if it means just 1 more kid comes to su then it is a good thing. make them completely a midwest team.

 

[rrlbees]

I still think the recruiting thing is a farce. We would probably only play them every other year. I highly doubt that the difference in a recruit's decision will come down to ONE game in the state of NY over the course of four years.

And yeah, if there was a good reason to drop them from our future, I'm sure we could replace them. But the weak reasons you give for dropping perhaps our best current rivalry is ludicrous. When it comes to basketball, I don't agree that we should ever drop Georgetown, but at least I can see your point... I don't agree with it, because if we were in their shoes we too would be clinging to every dollar and season of relevancy before being cast off into the unknown... but at least there is an angle, "leverage." But the whole WVU thing is just about being bitter. Most of the greatest rivalries in sports feature that very thing. So again, I see all that as a plus, and a reason to go full bore into the future with WVU as a substantial partner.

it's not a farce if we and pitt do the same thing and drag the acc in too. i dont think people see the value to su if a team like wvu becomes a southwest team. it is a huge thing imo. to each their own opinion.

 

[OrangeMuskyFish]

it's not a farce if we and pitt do the same thing and drag the acc in too. i dont think people see the value to su if a team like wvu becomes a southwest team. it is a huge thing imo. to each their own opinion.

If all this backstabbing over the past year or two has taught us anything, it's that teams are going to do what is best for them, right or wrong. So if you were an administrator, not only do you have to sell this HIGHLY debatable thought process to other SU officials, but then you have to do so to multiple universities... Including one with an even stronger rivalry with WVU than our own. If I'm Pittsburgh I'm thinking, "um, nah, sorry chief, we already recruit pretty well and are way better off keeping the rivalry going." I would say that there is only about a 20% chance your plan would actually work out. Unfortunately, it's not like the remaining 80% is neutral territory, where we have nothing to lose by trying. If it doesn't work we look like complete douches.