O-Line Preview (Post-Standard)

[LeMoyneCuse]

Don't want to speak for Tomcat, but he's been leading this charge. I invite him to keep me honest on paraphrasing his prior opinions, but it seems to be based upon three factors:

• Physical tools -- Reed is a BIG, strong dude who holds up at the point of attack better than the last couple of centers we've utilized
• Level of competition -- Hutchinson CC plays in one of the toughest JUCO leagues, and Reed is battle tested against P5 caliber DL competition, who he faced every game and more than held his own
• Game film -- Tomcat watched game film, and his optimism is based upon what he observed from Reed

Counterpoint. Reed is a complete unknown at the D1 level and has been on campus for like 6 weeks. This is Ilaoa's fourth year on campus and has game reps at a position group that requires a long growth curve.

Let's not confuse hopes with pragmatism.

 

[cusefan88]

Counterpoint. Reed is a complete unknown at the D1 level and has been on campus for like 6 weeks. This is Ilaoa's fourth year on campus and has game reps at a position group that requires a long growth curve.

Let's not confuse hopes with pragmatism.

Agreed. But also why the competition to start at center is so fascinating. The winner will have earned it and will elevate the OL.

 

[AAM62]

Don't want to speak for Tomcat, but he's been leading this charge. I invite him to keep me honest on paraphrasing his prior opinions, but it seems to be based upon three factors:

• Physical tools -- Reed is a BIG, strong dude who holds up at the point of attack better than the last couple of centers we've utilized
• Level of competition -- Hutchinson CC plays in one of the toughest JUCO leagues, and Reed is battle tested against P5 caliber DL competition, who he faced every game and more than held his own
• Game film -- Tomcat watched game film, and his optimism is based upon what he observed from Reed

Yeah, he's a big dude. Center is just one of those positions that's tough to break into quickly.

 

[Scooch]

The problem with positional competitions in the Babers era is the most of that time they are between two guys who have substantial flaws, and the “winner” is the one who has the least substantial flaws.

Seems rare that we have a battle that involves two good players where the winner is the most goodest.

Let’s hope the C battle is the latter.

 

[SU91]

The problem with positional competitions in the Babers era is the most of that time they are between two guys who have substantial flaws, and the “winner” is the one who has the least substantial flaws.

Seems rare that we have a battle that involves two good players where the winner is the most goodest.

Let’s hope the C battle is the latter.

Amen

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

The problem with positional competitions in the Babers era is the most of that time they are between two guys who have substantial flaws, and the “winner” is the one who has the least substantial flaws.

This is a problem most teams have and is one of the things that makes college football more fun than the NFL.

 

[sutomcat]

The problem with positional competitions in the Babers era is the most of that time they are between two guys who have substantial flaws, and the “winner” is the one who has the least substantial flaws.

Seems rare that we have a battle that involves two good players where the winner is the most goodest.

Let’s hope the C battle is the latter.

I suggested earlier in this thread that maybe Emily knows something I don't with her feeling Josh is a clear starter at center.

That was serious.

I would be shocked if Ellis, Bleich or 'Chi Town' Cruz are healthy and do not start. To me, they are the three clear starters on the OL.

At center, it could be Ilaoa, Reed or Hoeh. Could not be shocked if anyone of them win the job. I expect Reed to do it but Josh or Wes have more time in the program and could surprise. The thing that gives me pause about Josh is that he has had a number of chances to play and hasn't taken advantage of those opportunities. This might be his last chance. I am sure he will give it his best shot.

At right tackle, I am thinking Joe More has to be the favorite but would not be surprised if David Wohlabaugh, 'Long Island' Cruz, Mark Petry or even Lysander Moeolo step up and take it.

Agree, it is gratifying to see some depth being built up on the OL and some reasonable viable options at the open positions.

 

[tep624]

I suggested earlier in this thread that maybe Emily knows something I don't with her feeling Josh is a clear starter at center.

That was serious.

I would be shocked if Ellis, Bleich or 'Chi Town' Cruz are healthy and do not start. To me, they are the three clear starters on the OL.

At center, it could be Ilaoa, Reed or Hoeh. Could not be shocked if anyone of them win the job. I expect Reed to do it but Josh or Wes have more time in the program and could surprise. The thing that gives me pause about Josh is that he has had a number of chances to play and hasn't taken advantage of those opportunities. This might be his last chance. I am sure he will give it his best shot.

At right tackle, I am thinking Joe More has to be the favorite but would not be surprised if David Wohlabaugh, 'Long Island' Cruz, Mark Petry or even Lysander Moeolo step up and take it.

Agree, it is gratifying to see some depth being built up on the OL and some reasonable viable options at the open positions.

Ilaoa hasn’t played at an above average P5 center level to date and I think that’s why people are projecting Reed over him out of the gate. And that generally speaking the staff’s position on JUCO’s is to recruit them to play.

 

[PhatOrange]

The problem with positional competitions in the Babers era is the most of that time they are between two guys who have substantial flaws, and the “winner” is the one who has the least substantial flaws.

Seems rare that we have a battle that involves two good players where the winner is the most goodest.

Let’s hope the C battle is the latter.

Agreed. The other thing with OL in the Babers era is that when we think (or hope) and unknown quantity is going to seize a job they don't. I'm not going back to analyze it but in recent memory I think Ellis is by and large the only kid who's started out of nowhere.

It'll probably be the same old same old with More being the newcomer who starts.

 

[MSOrange]

Agreed. The other thing with OL in the Babers era is that when we think (or hope) and unknown quantity is going to seize a job they don't. I'm not going back to analyze it but in recent memory I think Ellis is by and large the only kid who's started out of nowhere.

It'll probably be the same old same old with More being the newcomer who starts.

I still have Ryan Alexander PTSD.

 

[MikeSU02]

rrlbees I believe you answered this, at least in part, in a previous question I had, but from last year's PFF rankings of our individual OL and overall, do you know where we the OL ranked in terms of relative grading to the ACC and overall as a category (meaning, were they considered "good" or "very good"? Not sure if PFF has that type of categorization with their grading.

Also, with our returners that have been graded, does PFF do a projection for where we would slot in amongst the ACC/D1?

I understand the relative rankings of pass blocking and run blocking for our guys, but do you have any insight into those types of rankings against the ACC/D1/upcoming year?

 

[Scooch]

This is a problem most teams have and is one of the things that makes college football more fun than the NFL.

Well, it’s a problem that teams with chronically poor depth have. I don’t think Bama has that problem.

Disagree about the CFB vs NFL aspect. They’re radically different in terms of development and positional battles. Lots to enjoy about both.

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Well, it’s a problem that teams with chronically poor depth have. I don’t think Bama has that problem.

Disagree about the CFB vs NFL aspect. They’re radically different in terms of development and positional battles. Lots to enjoy about both.

Most teams aren't Alabama. Which is why I said "most teams."

And to each their own, but the fact that the gap between the best and worst player on a roster has a delta of like 30% as opposed to 10% in the NFL makes CFB far more fun.

 

[CbusCuse]

Ilaoa hasn’t played at an above average P5 center level to date and I think that’s why people are projecting Reed over him out of the gate. And that generally speaking the staff’s position on JUCO’s is to recruit them to play.

Ilaoa did start last year against Wake Forest where we scored 35 points and then played the second half of the BC game which is when we scored 29 of our 32 points for the game. I don't specifically remember how he played in those games but the fact we did that well offensively in them is at least a good indication his play was not horrible. Weather he wins the starting spot or not at the very least he should be good depth with some experience. I would be interested to know where his PFF grades fell.

 

[tep624]

Ilaoa did start last year against Wake Forest where we scored 35 points and then played the second half of the BC game which is when we scored 29 of our 32 points for the game. I don't specifically remember how he played in those games but the fact we did that well offensively in them is at least a good indication his play was not horrible. Weather he wins the starting spot or not at the very least he should be good depth with some experience. I would be interested to know where his PFF grades fell.

I’m not cherry picking specific games, I know what I’ve seen over the body of work. If he does start then I hope he’s improved significantly and beat out Reed after a spirited competition.

 

[TheHaze315]

Just catching up on this thread now, I can’t imagine a scenario where Reed is healthy and isn’t the starting C. Juco All American Oregon made a big push at him, huge recruiting win for us, by all accounts ready to come in and start day 1. I just don’t see Josh getting the nod here.

 

[CbusCuse]

I’m not cherry picking specific games, I know what I’ve seen over the body of work. If he does start then I hope he’s improved significantly and beat out Reed after a spirited competition.

The one game Ilaoa started last year and the second half of BC games may be games he did well in. That was taken from his Cuse.com bio which obviously is going to showcase the positives. So your comment about not cherry picking may be a good point. They don't note the games he played in that maybe we didn't do so well in. But at least the one game he started in was a good offensive outcome ¯\_(ツ)_/¯. But I also would put my money on Reed winning out.

Regarding Wohlabauh, with his stated good run blocking grade on PFF i'm thinking his run blocking is solid and pass blocking was likely pretty poor. Although his one start was the Miami University game and their offense passed for 300+ and ran for like just 50 yds net. Granted they gave up 4 sacks that went against rushing numbers and its probably likely he had something to do with those. Thinking he may be a better fit at guard considering that but he was a freshman so maybe he just needs some more development and experience in the pass blocking department.

 

[RF2044]

Counterpoint. Reed is a complete unknown at the D1 level and has been on campus for like 6 weeks. This is Ilaoa's fourth year on campus and has game reps at a position group that requires a long growth curve.

Let's not confuse hopes with pragmatism.

I'm not confusing anything -- I'm just relaying Tomcat's assessment of the incoming player.

"Unknown at the D1 level" is fair. Although as Tomcat pointed out, he's played against top flight competition, and he is more physically mature than most incoming recruits [as a JUCO vs. a frosh]. I'm also encouraged by his weight loss after he signed with us -- kid dropped a ton of "bad" weight. That bodes well in terms of his physical readiness to contribute.

His ability to assimilate the playbook and learn his blocking assignments? TBD.

Wouldn't be remotely surprised to have Ilaoa start the season, to give Reed two extra weeks to drink from the firehose. And if Ilaoa beats him out outright, hopefully it is because of the former's readiness / experience, and not just because he's the better of two subpar options. Need better play at the center position.

 

[OttosDad]

The way I see it is… E. Cruz, Bleich, and Ellis are all locks to start if healthy. They are in our top 7 OL, which is an extremely important number of competent OL to hit.

We brought in 3 transfers in Reed, Moello, and Wohlabaugh. We have to hit on at least 2 of those guys and be comfortable with them in our top 7 OL.

Maybe Hoeh or Ilaoa step up, but who else is there in the program that might see the field? Joe Cruz looked solid in very limited action last year, and has a good frame.

To sum it up can we find 4 guys out of Reed, Moello, Woulabaugh, Hoeh, Ilaoa, and Joe Cruz that will be serviceable as a top 7 role… to me that’s the key to the season.

I assume we can’t expect much from the true freshmen. Mack, Bass. I also just don’t see it with More. His accolades coming here from a lower level just aren’t good.

 

[IthacaMatt]

There haven’t been many “better” years. We have 2018 and 2022 - which happen to be years when we had talent, experience and durability at the tackle spots.

In the other seasons, I am not recalling that the OL got significantly better (gelling) in the back part of the schedule after a slow start. I put it down to lack of talent and depth at OL - how many of our OL guys have been candidates for any level of all ACC recognition?

I do believe the quality of our OL depth this year is different. How physical we are in the first unit (compared to good ACC units) is the open question.

I have a couple seasons in mind, but I'll have to look another time.

 

[IthacaMatt]

At center, it could be Ilaoa, Reed or Hoeh. Could not be shocked if anyone of them win the job. I expect Reed to do it but Josh or Wes have more time in the program and could surprise.

If it turns out to be Hoeh, I would be shocked, honestly.

I don't like to rag on college kids, generally speaking, but my goodness, he could not block AT ALL last year. I mean, I remember many complete whiffs when he was in there, leading to sacks and RBs getting blown up in the backfield.

If he is our starting center, I will have nightmares of that season when Aaron Servais was at center, was injured, and about 3 or 4 times a game, someone on defense would just rush past him at center and either get the sack or blow up the play.

 

[sutomcat]

If it turns out to be Hoeh, I would be shocked, honestly.

I don't like to rag on college kids, generally speaking, but my goodness, he could not block AT ALL last year. I mean, I remember many complete whiffs when he was in there, leading to sacks and RBs getting blown up in the backfield.

If he is our starting center, I will have nightmares of that season when Aaron Servais was at center, was injured, and about 3 or 4 times a game, someone on defense would just rush past him at center and either get the sack or blow up the play.

Totally agree he was a mess at that H back position. But to be fair to him, I don’t believe he had ever played there before. Rhino went down and there was no one around to back him up. I think the staff thought he was one of our most athletic linemen and had the best chance to succeed there and he agreed to the position change to help the team.

Yes, it didn’t work but playing center, on the OL, where he has been since HS, is going to be different than playing H back. Thinking he is probably not quite big enough to play center yet but hopefully he has been hard at work in the wright room and gets to a point where he is physically ready to play at the P5 level as a OL in the preseason.

He might end up one of our top backups at OG as well. I know the staff thinks very highly of him.

 

[rrlbees]

rrlbees I believe you answered this, at least in part, in a previous question I had, but from last year's PFF rankings of our individual OL and overall, do you know where we the OL ranked in terms of relative grading to the ACC and overall as a category (meaning, were they considered "good" or "very good"? Not sure if PFF has that type of categorization with their grading.

Also, with our returners that have been graded, does PFF do a projection for where we would slot in amongst the ACC/D1?

I understand the relative rankings of pass blocking and run blocking for our guys, but do you have any insight into those types of rankings against the ACC/D1/upcoming year?

We were 5th in the ACC for pass blocking (believe it or not) and 8th in run blocking. Our run blocking graded 60.7 and pass blocking 68.4. One would be considered the bottom end of average and the other the high end of average. I have not seen anything about projections. Not sure they do player projections since all their data and grades are based upon actual plays and analysis.

 

[MikeSU02]

We were 5th in the ACC for pass blocking (believe it or not) and 8th in run blocking. Our run blocking graded 60.7 and pass blocking 68.4. One would be considered the bottom end of average and the other the high end of average. I have not seen anything about projections. Not sure they do player projections since all their data and grades are based upon actual plays and analysis.

Appreciate the info, thank you.

 

[RF2044]

We need Ellis healthy. Having Bleich healthy will help as well. I thought Ellis fell off after a great freshman year mostly because he was injured. I hate to say it but i don’t see Iaola starting at C. There was a reason they hit the portal and JC ranks for IOL. My guess for starting day.

More Ellis Reed Bleich Cruz

Agree about Ellis. He accorded himself pretty well for a true frosh, and showed that he was a pretty good athlete for being so big [relative to OL].

But IMO, he played too heavy last year, his mobility suffered, and for being so massive he didn't hold up well at the point of attack like you'd expect and open holes.

I'm hearing that he's dropped close to 30 pounds, which hopefully will improve his stamina. Needs to play "stronger," too. This is his third year, so I expect a jump. Him actualizing his potential would go a long way toward the OL solidifying.

Also agree 100% about Bleich. I'm worried that his recovery from off-season surgery took him out of spring ball, but hopeful that his physical ailments will finally be in the rear view mirror now that his hip issue is corrected. As you state, we need him healthy. Would be nice to see what he can actually do when he isn't impaired. This is a key to the OL unit gelling overall, IMO. We have the components for the OL to be MORE than serviceable for a change, with better depth. But that's just on paper.