Oddly I think our inability to dribble helps us in a way

[NineOneSeven]

If dribbling the ball through the press was the best way to break it I'd agree with you. But usually just making smart passes is best against the press and Kadary has struggled with that.

I'm not here to trash him. I've been high on Kadary for a very long time. He's going to be great here. But what the OP said about Syracuse being terrible handling the ball is objectively false and can be proven with stats. Stats also back up that Kadary is the weakest with the ball of all our guards. Its okay to be high on him without trashing the other players or the coach, especially in ways that are false. People seem to have forgotten that.

Not all turnovers are equal though. I agree, Girard is a fine ball handler when he's not forced to do it a lot. But when Girard does turn it over, it usually ends up being an immediate basket, or foul shots. Live ball turnovers go down in the box scores the same as dead ball turnovers, but we know what means a lot more in a game. Some of Kadary's turnovers are going to be from forced passes inside, which are not the same as getting stripped 35 from the basket.

Girard and Buddy are both decent at protecting the ball dribbling. The issue is, to do so a lot of the time they have their entire back turned. Which is fine, depending on the situation (run the clock out, stall ball, wait for help). But when it comes to getting into the offense for most of the game, it's wasting seconds and not putting pressure on the opposing defense.

 

[General20]

Not all turnovers are equal though. I agree, Girard is a fine ball handler when he's not forced to do it a lot. But when Girard does turn it over, it usually ends up being an immediate basket, or foul shots. Live ball turnovers go down in the box scores the same as dead ball turnovers, but we know what means a lot more in a game. Some of Kadary's turnovers are going to be from forced passes inside, which are not the same as getting stripped 35 from the basket.

Girard and Buddy are both decent at protecting the ball dribbling. The issue is, to do so a lot of the time they have their entire back turned. Which is fine, depending on the situation (run the clock out, stall ball, wait for help). But when it comes to getting into the offense for most of the game, it's wasting seconds and not putting pressure on the opposing defense.

This argument moves the goalposts a lot. I agree that Kadary is better at initiating offense than Girard or Boeheim is. That was never on the table. I'm simply pointing out that both Girard and Boeheim are good at protecting the basketball. Kadary is pretty good too, but worse than the other two at this point in time.

Im not sure I agree that more of Girard's turnovers result in opponent baskets. I can remember both Girard and Kadary having their pockets picked this year in ways that resulted in two points going the other way. I ahve no idea if that's even a stat you can look up or not, but my guess is there wouldn't be much difference between the two.

 

[NineOneSeven]

This argument moves the goalposts a lot. I agree that Kadary is better at initiating offense than Girard or Boeheim is. That was never on the table. I'm simply pointing out that both Girard and Boeheim are good at protecting the basketball. Kadary is pretty good too, but worse than the other two at this point in time.

Im not sure I agree that more of Girard's turnovers result in opponent baskets. I can remember both Girard and Kadary having their pockets picked this year in ways that resulted in two points going the other way. I ahve no idea if that's even a stat you can look up or not, but my guess is there wouldn't be much difference between the two.

I'm not moving any goalposts as I'm not really arguing anything. I'm sure Richmond has had it happen. I would guess it's happened to Girard a lot more. I guess if we do want to talk goalposts though... Girard has a knack for long 3s that also directly lead to transition opportunity (i.e., like a turnover).

Bottom line for me... Richmond might average more turnovers per game than both the other guards and that's fine for me, for the reasons I listed earlier. I also expect a starting PG who is facilitating offense to lead the team in turnovers. That means he's playing like he should, in a role he should be playing. I've said it a bunch... all guards have a role.

 

[721Comstock]

I'm not moving any goalposts as I'm not really arguing anything. I'm sure Richmond has had it happen. I would guess it's happened to Girard a lot more. I guess if we do want to talk goalposts though... Girard has a knack for long 3s that also directly lead to transition opportunity (i.e., like a turnover).

Bottom line for me... Richmond might average more turnovers per game than both the other guards and that's fine for me, for the reasons I listed earlier. I also expect a starting PG who is facilitating offense to lead the team in turnovers. That means he's playing like he should, in a role he should be playing. I've said it a bunch... all guards have a role.

EXACTLY THIS.
"a bad shot is the first pass in your opponent's fast break"

Joe throws several of those up every game.
They don't officially count as turnovers - but they should.

And as was said, there are different kinds of turnovers.
Kadary throwing a next-level pass to a teammate, who is oblivious to it, resulting the ball going out of bounds, is a LOT less bad than Joe G's dribble getting picked clean and having it taken the other way for a layup.

 

[albanycuse]

EXACTLY THIS.
"a bad shot is the first pass in your opponent's fast break"

Joe throws several of those up every game.
They don't officially count as turnovers - but they should.

And as was said, there are different kinds of turnovers.
Kadary throwing a next-level pass to a teammate, who is oblivious to it, resulting the ball going out of bounds, is a LOT less bad than Joe G's dribble getting picked clean and having it taken the other way for a layup.

Yesss exactly. He’s had brutal ones in tight games.

 

[Louie and Bouie]

Joe can't go to his left against pressure. Its obvious and perplexing based upon the amount of basketball he has played.

 

[NorSyr66]

Kadary has only the last 2 games started getting more than 20 MPG with the 3 guard lineup.

We roll JG-BB the first 8 minutes of each half.

Unless Joe get some of Buddy’s minutes it’s going to be 35-25-20 as the likely distribution.

I agree with you. I do not really like it since I feel Kadary should get the largest portion of the minutes but at least we are finally heading in the right direction.

 

[Halfmooncuse]

And our outside shooting gives the opportunity to get long offensive rebounds

 

[Dcuse]

If dribbling the ball through the press was the best way to break it I'd agree with you. But usually just making smart passes is best against the press and Kadary has struggled with that.

I'm not here to trash him. I've been high on Kadary for a very long time. He's going to be great here. But what the OP said about Syracuse being terrible handling the ball is objectively false and can be proven with stats. Stats also back up that Kadary is the weakest with the ball of all our guards. Its okay to be high on him without trashing the other players or the coach, especially in ways that are false. People seem to have forgotten that.

" Stats also back up that Kadary is the weakest with the ball of all our guards."
Are you keeping your own stats at home? This belongs in the boards Hall of Fame of quotes.

 

[FrancoPizza]

This post reminds me how I felt in 2003. If the opponent had the zone figured out I prayed they would push the lead to 12. That was the magic number that led JB to switch to m2m. When we played at Rutgers, Lamizana’s boys could never extend the lead beyond a couple baskets and we stayed in the zone all 40 minutes.