Offense nugget from recruit

[supp]

i don't like it. (shocker)

other (better) offenses always line up their receivers in the same spot on the field. learn a few things and perfect them. practice faster.

Forget about multiple formations and responsibilities. It sounds like they're looking to build their offense around a guy that's not even on campus yet. They must think a heckuva lot about this kid. Hope they're right but his resume doesn't scream instant star.

 

[CU44SE]

This offense is all dependent on the quality of TE we have and I like the sound of it but you need a TE like gronk. Someone capable of blocking at the line but also stretching the field and I'm not sure their is a guy in college capable of doing that. With this type of TE, you would be able to run it down the other teams throat if they played pass defense, and then when they put in a big body to stop the run you split the TE out to run circles around them. Its a great thought in theory, but again, I'm not sure that type of TE exists in college football.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

This offense is all dependent on the quality of TE we have and I like the sound of it but you need a TE like gronk. Someone capable of blocking at the line but also stretching the field and I'm not sure their is a guy in college capable of doing that. With this type of TE, you would be able to run it down the other teams throat if they played pass defense, and then when they put in a big body to stop the run you split the TE out to run circles around them. Its a great thought in theory, but again, I'm not sure that type of TE exists in college football.

They don't even exist in the NFL.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Interesting story, my high school football coach put in a designed hitch pass that utilized a bounce pass. The whole point was for the ball to bounce (being a lateral) and for the defense to think it was a dead ball and give up, at which point I'd throw backside or playside depending on which DB didn't cover to a streaking wide receiver.

Hell yeah, he did. I love that kind of crap.

 

[ORANGEsPHK]

Regarding the OP topic: I think you need a combination of what Millhouse & TheCusian are talking about. I think its good to have players in one of a very few key positions and excel at those positions. However, I also think its good to have the option to move them around to create mismatches. Think of it as play-action, but with player positions instead of the run/pass.

If you move the players around all the time I don't think you can create the confusion you are want as the DC will put in a base defense to cover everything - not that that would not be to our advantage, but it won't cause the D to shift or force timeouts, etc.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Forget about multiple formations and responsibilities. It sounds like they're looking to build their offense around a guy that's not even on campus yet. They must think a heckuva lot about this kid. Hope they're right but his resume doesn't scream instant star.

Last time we tried doing that (Broyld), we ended up with the best offense we've had in the past 15 years.

Not for the reasons you'd think we would have had such a good offense, but still, I'm trying to maintain a sliver of hope here.

 

[Millhouse]

Regarding the OP topic: I think you need a combination of what Millhouse & TheCusian are talking about. I think its good to have players in one of a very few key positions and excel at those positions. However, I also think its good to have the option to move them around to create mismatches. Think of it as play-action, but with player positions instead of the run/pass.

If you move the players around all the time I don't think you can create the confusion you are want as the DC will put in a base defense to cover everything - not that that would not be to our advantage, but it won't cause the D to shift or force timeouts, etc.

i'm just skeptical of motion causing mismatches. everyone can find an example of any offense working but is it really that hard for defenses to respond to motion? is it worth making things that much more confusing for your QB?

i think a lot about the tradeoffs college teams have to face in practice. do SU players need to spend time learning where to move or do they need more reps?

 

[Chip]

i'm just skeptical of motion causing mismatches. everyone can find an example of any offense working but is it really that hard for defenses to respond to motion? is it worth making things that much more confusing for your QB?

i think a lot about the tradeoffs college teams have to face in practice. do SU players need to spend time learning where to move or do they need more reps?

You're trying to outsmart the defensive coordinator.

I'm not so sure we have the ability to outsmart the defensive coordinators we face. Sure doesn't look like it so far.

 

[TheCusian]

i thought we were talking about the first post in this thread. those a backs aren't slot receivers you can go max protect and throw downfield, i get that. they're going to recruit a bunch of blockers and then get fired and the next coach is going to have to wait years to get enough WR. what a mess

If you read the thread, I was responding to your post with the quote in it. They are looking for guys who can block and catch. Those teams all are successful at bringing guys into the box and then utilizing 2TE and 2WR to pass downfield into single coverage and/or mismatches.

It keeps defenses out of nickel too.

 

[Millhouse]

You're trying to outsmart the defensive coordinator.

I'm not so sure we have the ability to outsmart the defensive coordinators we face. Sure doesn't look like it so far.

i just think about the types of QBs and WR we tend to get. we're playing catchup with the rest of the world, recruiting qbs who never threw the ball and WR who never catch. simple simple simple every qb and every WR throwing and catching as fast as possible. if it means we have to spend all our practice time on that and the offense looks to basic, fine with me

 

[PhatOrange]

Forget about multiple formations and responsibilities. It sounds like they're looking to build their offense around a guy that's not even on campus yet. They must think a heckuva lot about this kid. Hope they're right but his resume doesn't scream instant star.

Custis and Enoicy fit this role and Broyld to a degree. Parris and Provo might to. Building an offense around it or this kid though? Not sure where you get that.

 

[Full_Rebar]

If you want to create single coverage, get a running QB. Look at Auburn, the read option stops DE's from rushing, it holds the LB's and brings the SS up to the line. Marshall is a below average passer, but the threat of the running game combined with a NFL talent at WR (Coates) helped them end up ranked #13 in passing efficiency.

 

[GoSU96]

Forget about multiple formations and responsibilities. It sounds like they're looking to build their offense around a guy that's not even on campus yet. They must think a heckuva lot about this kid. Hope they're right but his resume doesn't scream instant star.

Build their offense around?

He's going to be a PIECE of the offense, not THE offense.

So much overreaction on this board.

 

[TheCusian]

If you want to create single coverage, get a running QB. Look at Auburn, the read option stops DE's from rushing, it holds the LB's and brings the SS up to the line. Marshall is a below average passer, but the threat of the running game combined with a NFL talent at WR (Coates) helped them end up ranked #13 in passing efficiency.

I fully expect Hunt to start and that there will be built in runs for him for just this purpose.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

They are looking for guys who can block and catch.

I think that's a tough mountain to climb. There aren't many guys with the size and speed to be a real threat from the TE position. Do we think the football factories don't value guys like that that can block and catch?

Maybe if we establish an identity around that it can work. That sounds like what Marrone was trying to do recruiting wise with Parris and Sugar Bear. It sounds like Dunkelberger bought in.

I just wonder what we have better odds of doing - going 3 deep (since you'll need a break and be able to handle some attrition) with decently performing blocking and receiving tight ends, or go 5-6 deep with decent WRs? I'd lean towards WR (because Dome, which is the answer to nearly everything) but my best credential is that I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

 

[javadoc]

I think that's a tough mountain to climb. There aren't many guys with the size and speed to be a real threat from the TE position. Do we think the football factories don't value guys like that that can block and catch?

Maybe if we establish an identity around that it can work. That sounds like what Marrone was trying to do recruiting wise with Parris and Sugar Bear. It sounds like Dunkelberger bought in.

I just wonder what we have better odds of doing - going 3 deep (since you'll need a break and be able to handle some attrition) with decently performing blocking and receiving tight ends, or go 5-6 deep with decent WRs? I'd lean towards WR (because Dome, which is the answer to nearly everything) but my best credential is that I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

Do we have decent WR's now? If not, when was the last time we fielded a team with enough decent WR's to have full depth to run a spread offense?

I don't know the answer, but it does seem like no matter what we have been running, getting a full stable of good WR's has been a problem. Like for the last 15 years.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Do we have decent WR's now? If not, when was the last time we fielded a team with enough decent WR's to have full depth to run a spread offense?

I don't know the answer, but it does seem like no matter what we have been running, getting a full stable of good WR's has been a problem. Like for the last 15 years.

Well... you know my answer to this.

 

[TheCusian]

I think that's a tough mountain to climb. There aren't many guys with the size and speed to be a real threat from the TE position. Do we think the football factories don't value guys like that that can block and catch? Maybe if we establish an identity around that it can work. That sounds like what Marrone was trying to do recruiting wise with Parris and Sugar Bear. It sounds like Dunkelberger bought in. I just wonder what we have better odds of doing - going 3 deep (since you'll need a break and be able to handle some attrition) with decently performing blocking and receiving tight ends, or go 5-6 deep with decent WRs? I'd lean towards WR (because Dome, which is the answer to nearly everything) but my best credential is that I stayed at a Holiday Inn last night.

I'd rather go that route too (in a vacuum). I'm not giving a full throated endorsement of the plan - just trying to understand what we are trying to do.

I think if you like how BC was able to hang with FSU the last two years, you might be seeing a glimpse of our future sets.

(I think some of the resistance to the idea of running the spread here is Shafer's dismantling of Holgerson's WVU teams.)

 

[Millhouse]

Well... you know my answer to this.

whatever they told the juco TE (you'll get the ball) would work with WR too

 

[Millhouse]

I'd rather go that route too (in a vacuum). I'm not giving a full throated endorsement of the plan - just trying to understand what we are trying to do.

I think if you like how BC was able to hang with FSU the last two years, you might be seeing a glimpse of our future sets.

(I think some of the resistance to the idea of running the spread here is Shafer's dismantling of Holgerson's WVU teams.)

bc gained 313 and 397 against FSU the last two years

 

[TheCusian]

bc gained 313 and 397 against FSU the last two years

I don't know what they did - but the scores were close and they run 12 personnel.

 

[OrangePA]

Yeah sounds like a page right out of the Deleone let's move people around so much that not only is the defense confused but so is the offense. Meh

Yeah.

I'll take that kind of confusion.

McPherson, Philcox, Graves, McNabb, Moore, Gedney, Ishmail, Harrison, Pat Kelly, Roland Williams, Devil Glover, Tommy Kane, Kaseem Sinceno, Owens, Walker, Thomas, Reyes, Rhodes, Dar Dar.

Yeah, I'll take all the confusion.

 

[Millhouse]

I don't know what they did

the ran all day long, ran for a lot of yards, threw for jack squat, lost

everyone loses to FSU but i don't look at those two games with envy

 

[Crusty]

Interesting story, my high school football coach put in a designed hitch pass that utilized a bounce pass. The whole point was for the ball to bounce (being a lateral) and for the defense to think it was a dead ball and give up, at which point I'd throw backside or playside depending on which DB didn't cover to a streaking wide receiver.

Did it work?

 

[Millhouse]

Did it work?

that coach is a crazy person to fumble a pointy ball on purpose