Officiating today... | Page 2 | Syracusefan.com

Officiating today...

i mean, im not even talking anti-SU per se. The refs have been determined to drive outcomes in ALL of these games

C'mon man, if the refs are doing their job the right way, they affect every game, and more so if they don't. That's only logical and natural. Consider it's their job to be consistent, while it's the players' and coaches' job(s) to adjust. The smart ones do, for the most part. The refs today let both teams play, for the most part. If they had wanted to hurt SU today, they could have easily done it.

Honest question, did anyone hear Izzo complain about the refs?
 
What I didn't like is that Frank went for ball and wrapped up the other guys arms on a rebound trying to get a jump ball... Howard got called for the foul. Yet Battle gets hit, goes to the floor and a MSU player jumped on Tyus's back and wrapped his arms around Battles waist and no would call... They called jump ball instead. I didn't know you could wrap around a players waist and get a jump ball... But if u wrap up one of their arms it a foul.

Refs didn't know the difference between jump balls and fouls. And sometimes they called jump balls way to prematurely.

With that being said I like that we had a lot more free throw attempts then they did. A lot of that was their own fault for passing ball around the perimeter and jacking up 3s and going to the paint. If MSU went to the paint some more they would of got more foul shots and Sidibe and Chukwu both probably would have fouled out of the game. Missed opportunity on their part.
 
SU went to the line more because MSU shot 31 more three pointers. 31! What kind of stat is that? Of course they also had about 20 more possessions than us due to rebounds.

The weirdest stretch was Frank going from 1 foul to 5 immediately.

It was definitely physical inside a lot of the game on the glass.
 
C'mon man, if the refs are doing their job the right way, they affect every game, and more so if they don't. That's only logical and natural. Consider it's their job to be consistent, while it's the players' and coaches' job(s) to adjust. The smart ones do, for the most part. The refs today let both teams play, for the most part. If they had wanted to hurt SU today, they could have easily done it.

Honest question, did anyone hear Izzo complain about the refs?

Again this really wasn't an anti SU thing. I feel like throughout the tourney they have made.playing defense virtually impossible, particularly in the lane
 
Yeah I'm sure the NCAA would prefer this outcome as opposed to Duke vs. MSU on a Friday night...

NCAA will be cowering if it ends up Syracuse vs. Clemson for a spot in the Final 4.

I'm not complaining. I'm just saying I wish they would sit on the whistle a bit and let them play defense.
 
I’m surprised so many people are saying the ball went off MSU on that play with 1:39 left. I thought it was off of Oshae... at best, the replay was inconclusive- which means they stay with the original call.
Not correct and not that hard to see. The ball changed direction after brushing the calf of the MSU player. It wasn't the camera angle, either. The path was predictable until then. Blown call.
 
^Somebody gets it. The officials were among the least of our problems today. Most defense-heavy games are foul fests. On replays, I saw a lot of things they let go that helped keep us in the game.
Please...when you shoot a million threes, you are not going to the line much. SU was inside and driving much more. MSU got away with a lot of fouls going for offensive boards and SU did not. FT disparity no surprise based on offensive games.
 
you forgot the total flop by dobbie gillis vs OB in the first half.

That one was outrageous. No way he got there in time, first, and then the flop should have negated any call even if he had gotten there in the first place.
 
Again this really wasn't an anti SU thing. I feel like throughout the tourney they have made.playing defense virtually impossible, particularly in the lane

"made playing defense virtually impossible?" Seriously? Then how did SU hold down three teams averaging 80+ points per game, to scores in the 50's?
 
Three boundary calls in the last five minutes were brutal. Not saying they got it wrong, but those were at least 50/50 calls.

More than that I’m always puzzled by the inconsistency of the moving screen call. And I wondered why the MSU player wasn’t called for hanging on the rim in the first half when he missed the flying put-back jam. No one underneath him, and MSU rebounded the miss. We have had that call against us this year.
 
"made playing defense virtually impossible?" Seriously? Then how did SU hold down three teams averaging 80+ points per game, to scores in the 50's?

I'll keep reiterating, I am not really talking about the SU game, it is a general statement about the way the tournament is being called in general. If a ball handler gets within 5 feet of the basket, there is virtually no way to defend it.

I really didn't have a to to complain about with the officiating in our game. A lot of ticky tack fouls, but generally both ways. The late boundary calls were all correct I think.

Let's agree to disagree on this point.
 
Three boundary calls in the last five minutes were brutal. Not saying they got it wrong, but those were at least 50/50 calls.

More than that I’m always puzzled by the inconsistency of the moving screen call. And I wondered why the MSU player wasn’t called for hanging on the rim in the first half when he missed the flying put-back jam. No one underneath him, and MSU rebounded the miss. We have had that call against us this year.

Feels like our guards get hit by moving screens about 30 times per game. It saddens me that in order for us to get the call, one of our guys has to fall down like he's been shot, instead of actually trying to play defense. If the refs would just call that right, and early, like they do against Chukwu and Sid, then Battle and Howard wouldn't be sporting ice packs after every game.
 
With SU shooting 31 FTs to 16 for MSU, I'm sure Michigan State fans are blaming the refs for the loss.
 
With SU shooting 31 FTs to 16 for MSU, I'm sure Michigan State fans are blaming the refs for the loss.

We'd probably be doing the same given that ratio.

My argument would be, if we were fouling more you would probably not have had 700 offensive rebounds. The broadcast neglected to correlate the fact that we needed to concede a little on the boards to try to keep some guys actually in the game. It doesnt explain all of it, not by a longshot, but it was a factor.
 
Feels like our guards get hit by moving screens about 30 times per game. It saddens me that in order for us to get the call, one of our guys has to fall down like he's been shot, instead of actually trying to play defense. If the refs would just call that right, and early, like they do against Chukwu and Sid, then Battle and Howard wouldn't be sporting ice packs after every game.

I honestly think the moving screen is like a quota call; basically everyone moves when they screen. They just decide to call them, seemingly at random.
 
I honestly think the moving screen is like a quota call; basically everyone moves when they screen. They just decide to call them, seemingly at random.
I look at the one called on Sidibe at the end of the first half and think, okay maybe a little shoulder movement there. But then I think of the one against TCU, when their player literally did a 180 trying to keep our guard from getting around him, and there was no call. It’s just so random
 
I look at the one called on Sidibe at the end of the first half and think, okay maybe a little shoulder movement there. But then I think of the one against TCU, when their player literally did a 180 trying to keep our guard from getting around him, and there was no call. It’s just so random

They really can't call every one, because it would probably he whistled every time down. This may hurt us more thna the average team since we always have 2 guards at the top of the ft line? Not sure.
 
To no one in particular, nor in a well thought out order: :D

In the first place, if it's easy to be a good basketball official, why aren't they all doing it? The guys you see on TV are generally the best available and most experienced. It's easily the most difficult thing I've done in sports. So when I say, "Come on out and do it," I mean it from a positive perspective rather than negative.

Announcers say a lot of stupid things. You can tell most of them have never seen the inside of a rule book. Especially Chris Webber, who may be the dumbest announcer I've ever heard.

"The hand is quicker than the eye." Believe it. Most people, even long time fans, have no idea how fast things move out on the floor. It's one thing to appreciate it as a fan. It's something else altogether to be responsible for seeing it and getting it right all through the game.

Officiating in the NCAA tournament always has been and always will be a crap shoot. Most often you get three officials who don't regularly work together. They're evaluated at the end of each game to determine who moves to the next round. Thus a lot of them are trying to impress the evaluators with all the small stuff they can catch. So, if you're a "let 'em play" style official, you will usually get left back.

The "moving screen" is a call/no-call that's been perverted by the NBA whose brass don't want it called because it adds nothing to their "star maker machinery." The influence of that has crept into the college game.

The old axiom is that there are about 400 call/no-call decisions to be made during the course of a game. So there will always be some calls that get missed or the refs just aren't going to make that call. Referees pretty much earn their way based on what they won't call, which is good because no one wants a whistlefest (think of last year's final, especially the first half which was God-awful). I learned that if you're going to err, do it on the side of fewer whistles. So since they can't be perfect, what they can be is consistent. Which means if they're calling something, stop doing it. And if they're not calling something, you have to adjust your game to accommodate that.

Also remember the TV cameras give you a different look than what the refs see. It's easy at floor level to get screened off or "straight-lined" and miss a call. So you try to anticipate that and move to keep good sight lines.

Finally, on a lot of replays this weekend I saw them getting the call right a whole lot more often than they got it wrong.

We're still dancing! LGO!
 
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We finally got calls late on the glass.
Good point. We did get a few calls at the end of the game ... (at which point I yelled, "It's a miracle"). The reason for that is that, while the block/charge calls were pretty even, M-St. got just about EVERY call on rebounds for most of the game. If we got the rebound, foul. If they got it, NP. That was one of the reasons for our stunning RB deficit (-21).
 
I think a few things worth mentioning are a.) MSU has a lot of big bodies, and rebounding is what they do. Our guys are sticks compared to theirs and we "lost" on a lot of the incidental contact. Since they missed a lot of shots, there were a lot of rebounds to get. They had a poor shooting game to begin with, and the intensity of the defense frazzled them. Put those together and it really got into their heads. You can't shoot when you're thinking about missing or not missing.
 
I mentioned this in the game thread:

When did making contact with an opponent’s legs while diving for a loose ball become legal?

I’ve seen it all over college basketball in the past few years - player A is a step behind his opponent and dives low for the ball while making contact at the knees or lower.

Ensuing scramble on the floor and no foul called.

The call I really didn’t like yesterday was Frank’s last foul. I realize he was foolish to put himself in that position.

If you watch the replay you’ll see the ref who made the call couldn’t have seen Franks arm contacting the MSU player.

His vision was initially blocked by the back of the MSU guard and then Frank’s back afterward. He blew the whistle on assumption, not vision.
 
I mentioned this in the game thread:

When did making contact with an opponent’s legs while diving for a loose ball become legal?

When did jumping on the back/neck of a player on the ground become not a foul?
 
...
Also remember the TV cameras give you a different look than what the refs see. It's easy at floor level to get screened off or "straight-lined" and miss a call. So you try to anticipate that and move to keep good sight lines.

Finally, on a lot of replays this weekend I saw them getting the call right a whole lot more often than they got it wrong.

We're still dancing! LGO!

Interesting you mention that. Because the ref who disqualified Frank couldn't have possibly seen any contact. That was a 100% anticipation call.
 
If they call the blatant moving screen on Carter with 6:53 to go, Howard probably doesn’t foul out.
 

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