Ok where do you stand on the Chicken or the egg

[orangecuse]

Or, circumstances changed (which they did) and that led JB to change his mind. Again, things aren't black and white all the time. And what would you have him say publicly? That he's retiring in 3 years? How will that play with recruiting? Most athletes and coaches don't retire on a timeframe, rather they evaluate their decision after every season or they abruptly retire in the midst of a season.

I don't disagree with what you're saying. In regards to the circumstances, it's interesting that JB was so willing to retire with Hop being the coach designate, but now apparently with him gone, has no 'end game.' You don't find that at least somewhat peculiar? Does he not trust ADJW abilities to hire the the next coach so JB will just keep on coaching now until he passes?

 

[moqui]

I will answer your question very clearly

one reason it’s brought up two years later is the article just came out her locally

The second reason is he is stating clearly that he was 100% prepared to retire and it was Mike’s choice exclusively and I think that’s a lie !!!

did I answer your question?

all available info indicates that you are the one lying, or at least in denial of reality (aka lying to yourself)

 

[20Plus]

Okay, I get it. According to you, I'm a liar.

It doesn’t make any sense the other way

I mean really are you saying Jim’s preference was to retire. If that was his preference and Mike left even though he knew Jim wanted to retire??

Really? Come on!
I don’t think his preference was to retire as he didn’t even set that date up!! It that was mandated by the NCAA violations correct?

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I think Buddy's emergence as a high D 1 player probably changed a lot of things.
I also believe Hop's dad was/is not in good health.

 

[20Plus]

all available info indicates that you are the one lying, or at least in denial of reality (aka lying to yourself)

How so please explain how you really believe Jim preference was to retire I don’t believe it that’s the biggest argument. And I don’t know Mike personally but I know people who do well,and those were some rumblings I heard before this went down!

Jim told and or made it obvious toMike first that he didn’t want to retire.

 

[dollarbill44]

I don't disagree with what you're saying. In regards to the circumstances, it's interesting that JB was so willing to retire with Hop being the coach designate, but now apparently with him gone, has no 'end game.' You don't find that at least somewhat peculiar? Does he not trust ADJW abilities to hire the the next coach so JB will just keep on coaching now until he passes?

I don't see anything peculiar about it. I think he has an idea of when he might retire, he's just not going to state it publicly. I bet only he and Juli know. As to him being "so willing" - those are your words. A lot of people retire from long careers not so much because they want to, but because they can't do the job up to the standards of the job anymore. He may have felt ready to retire a few years ago and changed his mind. He wouldn't be the first person to do so. The sanctions may have charged him up and Hop leaving allowed for him to continue coaching without going back on a promise to step down. I don't know if that's how it played out, but it's certainly plausible to me. It doesn't mean that he was being forced out prior to Hop leaving. I guess I'm just not a big conspiracy theorist who believes that there is always a slant to a story. Sometimes it's as simple as someone agreeing to something, changing their mind and an opening presenting itself so there isn't a reneging or uncomfortable retirement.

 

[SWC75]

I try to avoid standing on eggs or on chickens.

Mike seems to have had his own reasons to go west, including the health of his father. I'm sure JB wasn't sorry to see the situation open up to give him an excuse to not retire until he was able to do it on his own terms. I don't think there's any bad blood between them, probably just the opposite.

 

[SWC75]

Okay, I get it. According to you, I'm a liar.

Here's an interesting question: is it a good idea for someone to suggest that a board administrator is lying? I'm going with no...

 

[20Plus]

I try to avoid standing on eggs or on chickens.

Mike seems to have had his own reason to go west, including the health of his father. I'm sure JB wasn't sorry to see the situation open up to give him an excuse to not retire until he was able to do it on his own terms. I don't think there's any bad blood betwene them, probably jsut the opposite.

Nobody saying anything about Bad Blood!

I’m saying I believe Mike was sick of waiting and loves Jim and wanted to let him continue to coach.

 

[dollarbill44]

How so please explain how you really believe Jim preference was to retire I don’t believe it that’s the biggest argument. And I don’t know Mike personally but I know people who do well,and those were some rumblings I heard before this went down!

Jim told and or made it obvious toMike first that he didn’t want to retire.

So, in other words, this is really nothing more than a game of Telephone, (i.e. Johnny heard Chris say this to Sheila who got this straight from Hop).
Or maybe, Hop told one of your acquaintances that JB doesn't really want to retire (in Hop's opinion) ergo JB must have told Hop this? Do you see how these things could have played out?
There's enough blanks to be filled in here by conjecture that I'd be cautious taking any of it as gospel.

 

[20Plus]

So, in other words, this is really nothing more than a game of Telephone, (i.e. Johnny heard Chris say this to Sheila who got this straight from Hop).
Or maybe, Hop told one of your acquaintances that JB doesn't really want to retire (in Hop's opinion) ergo JB must have told Hop this? Do you see how these things could have played out?
There's enough blanks to be filled in here by conjecture that I'd be cautious taking any of it as gospel.

I’m not taking anything as gospel as that it was I think it’s an interesting question!

Nobody here has the answer to for the mist part.

I also couldn’t imagine waiting 20 years for a job and being appointed ready to take over and then not wanting to wait a season to do it. Instead go get a new job and a new great opportunity that was great but if you waited that long You’d have to at least convince yourself that this is a better opportunity.

 

[orangecuse]

I don't see anything peculiar about it. I think he has an idea of when he might retire, he's just not going to state it publicly. I bet only he and Juli know. As to him being "so willing" - those are your words. A lot of people retire from long careers not so much because they want to, but because they can't do the job up to the standards of the job anymore. He may have felt ready to retire a few years ago and changed his mind. He wouldn't be the first person to do so. The sanctions may have charged him up and Hop leaving allowed for him to continue coaching without going back on a promise to step down. I don't know if that's how it played out, but it's certainly plausible to me. It doesn't mean that he was being forced out prior to Hop leaving. I guess I'm just not a big conspiracy theorist who believes that there is always a slant to a story. Sometimes it's as simple as someone agreeing to something, changing their mind and an opening presenting itself so there isn't a reneging or uncomfortable retirement.

But he did state it publicly, and it was done in a fashion in which the whole world could see. So, there's that.
Just as you'd bet, I'd bet that he knows; knows that he didn't have his heart in to retiring, let alone set by anyone other than himself, especially after 40 years plus at the helm. And, now, it appears that that path is free for him to make, at least for the time being with the sanctions behind us.

 

[hoopsupstate]

It doesn’t really matter. JB is here and Mike is in Washington. Whatever happened for whatever reasons is now moot. Good luck to both. We’re lucky to have had both as long as we did.

 

[rrlbees]

But he did state it publicly, and it was done in a fashion in which the whole world could see. So, there's that.
Just as you'd bet, I'd bet that he knows; knows that he most likely didn't have his heart in to retiring, let alone set by anyone other than himself. And, now, it appears that that path is free for him to make, at least for the time being with the sanctions behind us.

or like a couple people, including jake, suggested, he's not going to publicly say anything different than he did because it could impact recruiting.

 

[dollarbill44]

I’m staying I believe Mike was sick of waiting and loves Jim and wanted to let him continue to coach.

If that's what you wanted to say, why didn't you say that??? What was all the other rumor and innuendo and ques

I’m not taking anything as gospel as that it was I think it’s an interesting question!

Nobody here has the answer to for the mist part.

I also couldn’t imagine waiting 20 years for a job and being appointed ready to take over and then not wanting to wait a season to do it. Instead go get a new job and a new great opportunity that was great but if you waited that long You’d have to at least convince yourself that this is a better opportunity.

I would be impatient too, in Mike's shoes. But, as to the first part, you kind of intimated that you do have the answer with your posts.

 

[orangecuse]

or like a couple people, including jake, suggested, he's not going to publicly say anything different than he did because it could impact recruiting.

Oh no doubt completely agree with that. I think it was foolish then that it was made so public, as it most probably negatively affected our recruiting. So, there's no need now to double whammy ourselves again.

 

[Toga]

A. The rumblings from some on the board were that JB wasn’t the easiest for Hop to deal with during his last season. I think that was one of Hop’s clues that JB wanted to keep coaching.

My recollection is that neither seemed particularly interested in recruiting during what turned out to be Hop's last year.

 

[Newhouser]

if JB says there is a time line or says there isn't a time line for him stepping down - his age is being used against us in recruiting now. These kids have been recruited their entire life, they know the system and know that signing with SU means you could have 4 years of JB or not. Factors into decisions without a doubt.

 

[stuckinbig11]

It was a very good opportunity, so he took it. Period.

 

[20Plus]

If that's what you wanted to say, why didn't you say that??? What was all the other rumor and innuendo and ques.

Like what?? In reference to...
“what was all the other rumor and innuendo and ques

 

[721Comstock]

It doesn’t make any sense the other way

I mean really are you saying Jim’s preference was to retire. If that was his preference and Mike left even though he knew Jim wanted to retire??

Really? Come on!
I don’t think his preference was to retire as he didn’t even set that date up!! It that was mandated by the NCAA violations correct?

The NCAA didn't "mandate" it - SU threw it in as part of their preliminary self-imposed sanctions, as they tried to get out in front of the NCAA hammer fall.

My personal taek on all of this is:
JB was convinced by SU admins that he needed to fall on his sword due to the NCAA , but he refused to do so immediately, so then the "will retire in 3 years" thing got put out there.
Everybody was fairly OK with that. For a while.
Then JB got that 9 game suspension, and a real-life taste of what his world minus coaching Syracuse basketball would be like. Juli is on record stating he hated it, he was miserable.
Hop realizes JB doesn't really, really want to retire.
Hop doesn't want to be the guy who forces his mentor to retire before he's ready to.
Hop has a sick father on the other coast, so when the Washington job opens up, it neatly resolves all of those issues for Hop AND for JB:
Hop gets a P5 HC job, near his Dad, and JB gets to keep coaching for as long as he wants to.

 

[dollarbill44]

Like what?? In reference to...
“what was all the other rumor and innuendo and ques

I'm not going to rehash all of your posts. What I'm referring to is in here if you really care. I already referenced the game of telephone.

 

[Alsacs]

The NCAA didn't "mandate" it - SU threw it in as part of their preliminary self-imposed sanctions, as they tried to get out in front of the NCAA hammer fall.

My personal taek on all of this is:
JB was convinced by SU admins that he needed to fall on his sword due to the NCAA , but he refused to do so immediately, so then the "will retire in 3 years" thing got put out there.
Everybody was fairly OK with that. For a while.
Then JB got that 9 game suspension, and a real-life taste of what his world minus coaching Syracuse basketball would be like. Juli is on record stating he hated it, he was miserable.
Hop realizes JB doesn't really, really want to retire.
Hop doesn't want to be the guy who forces his mentor to retire before he's ready to.
Hop has a sick father on the other coast, so when the Washington job opens up, it neatly resolves all of those issues for Hop AND for JB:
Hop gets a P5 HC job, near his Dad, and JB gets to keep coaching for as long as he wants to.

This post would have saved a lot of fighting. It’s pretty much how we should realize it went down.

 

[20Plus]

Here's an interesting question: is it a good idea for someone to suggest that a board administrator is lying? I'm going with no...

Stating my case period

 

[Toga]

Why did Mike get involved with other job openings prior to Washington?

I ask because I don't know - did the USC opportunity happen before or after the Chancellor announced the three year timing as part of concluding the NCAA stuff?