Ok where do you stand on the Chicken or the egg

[OrangeXtreme]

I ask because I don't know - did the USC opportunity happen before or after the Chancellor announced the three year timing as part of concluding the NCAA stuff?

USC interview was 2013.

We didn't get hit with sanctions until 2015.

Had FGCU not beaten Georgetown, Hop would have been long gone.

 

[Alsacs]

Jim Boeheim was quoted after the 2011 Big East quarterfinal tournament win over St. John’s he could see the end of his career.

O'Connor: Boeheim says retirement isn't far off

He said it in that article.

 

[Sherman20]

would hop have "bolted" if offered the usc job 4 years prior or Oregon St 3 years prior?

Hop was a finalist for the USC job BEFORE the NCAA sanctions hit and before JB was forced to announce a retirement date—which all went down in March 2015. Hop was then declared head coach designate and JB was scheduled to step down at the end of the 2017-18 season. So it made sense that Hop would want to take the USC job because at that point he had no guarantee and really no idea of when JB would end up stepping down—even if he was the declared successor, per the previous administration. That said, Wildhack and Syverud were sticking with the retirement plan and handing the reigns to Hop.

I do think Buddy changed JB’s thinking on retirement. And I think Hop went to Washington due to several reasons (family, become a head coach one year earlier, salary, chance to build your own program), but i think mostly it’s because he knew JB didn’t really want to retire, he didn’t want to be the one “forcing” his mentor into retirement, and he knew the administration would keep JB as head coach (obvi) if Hop left.

 

[kuethstheman]

I do think Buddy changed JB’s thinking on retirement. And I think Hop went to Washington due to several reasons (family, become a head coach one year earlier, salary, chance to build your own program), but i think mostly it’s because he knew JB didn’t really want to retire and he knew the administration would keep JB as head coach (obvi) if Hop left.

Even if JB never said he really didn't want to retire (and maybe was still planning to stick with the retirement plan), I wouldn't be surprised if when he came back from the suspension, it was pretty obvious to Hop he wasn't ready.

 

[moqui]

How so please explain how you really believe Jim preference was to retire I don’t believe it that’s the biggest argument. And I don’t know Mike personally but I know people who do well,and those were some rumblings I heard before this went down!

Jim told and or made it obvious toMike first that he didn’t want to retire.

jim says that's not how it happened
mike says that's not how it happened
wildhack says that's not how it happened
cto says that's not how it happened

but 20plus believes otherwise therefore all the above must by lying

 

[gilardino]

USC happened in 2013 after we smoked Marquette in the Elite 8.

Chancellor happened in 2015.

 

[gilardino]

jim says that's not how it happened
mike says that's not how it happened
wildhack says that's not how it happened
cto says that's not how it happened

but 20plus believes otherwise therefore all the above must by lying

all available info indicates that you are the one lying, or at least in denial of reality (aka lying to yourself)

Its not a lie, if you believe it." George Costanza

 

[hoopsupstate]

Even if JB never said he really didn't want to retire (and maybe was still planning to stick with the retirement plan), I wouldn't be surprised if when he came back from the suspension, it was pretty obvious to Hop he wasn't ready.

Coaching someone else’s team is not remotely the same as coaching your own. Hop wasn’t coaching the way he wanted to coach but coaching JB’s the way JB wanted it coached.

 

[gilardino]

The NCAA didn't "mandate" it - SU threw it in as part of their preliminary self-imposed sanctions, as they tried to get out in front of the NCAA hammer fall.

My personal taek on all of this is:
JB was convinced by SU admins that he needed to fall on his sword due to the NCAA , but he refused to do so immediately, so then the "will retire in 3 years" thing got put out there.
Everybody was fairly OK with that. For a while.
Then JB got that 9 game suspension, and a real-life taste of what his world minus coaching Syracuse basketball would be like. Juli is on record stating he hated it, he was miserable.
Hop realizes JB doesn't really, really want to retire.
Hop doesn't want to be the guy who forces his mentor to retire before he's ready to.
Hop has a sick father on the other coast, so when the Washington job opens up, it neatly resolves all of those issues for Hop AND for JB:
Hop gets a P5 HC job, near his Dad, and JB gets to keep coaching for as long as he wants to.

I think this is the most intelligent and spot on post I have seen in some time.

 

[kuethstheman]

Coaching someone else’s team is not remotely the same as coaching your own. Hop wasn’t coaching the way he wanted to coach but coaching JB’s the way JB wanted it coached.

Talking about JB not being ready to watch someone else coach SU (for the rest of his life). Not commenting on Hop's readiness.

 

[20Plus]

jim says that's not how it happened
mike says that's not how it happened
wildhack says that's not how it happened
cto says that's not how it happened

but 20plus believes otherwise therefore all the above must by lying

Of course they’re going to say that

but I am not saying I know otherwise I’m saying it doesn’t add up and I’ve already spoke at nauseam of why it doesn’t

 

[manleyzoo]

As a journalist for the last 40 years having interviewed nearly every major bigwig in technology over that time, I can say without reservation that no public figure, and I mean no public figure, ever, and I mean ever, says what he or she really thinks in public. Their reasons are well-founded -- there's what you say, doled out by what you want heard and repeated, and then what actually occurred, which is, rightfully so, reserved for those you trust. When it comes to career issues, because they're personal in nature, no public figure in their right mind would ever trust the public with an explanation of what actually happened or what he or she was thinking. What's disclosed publicly is the person's conclusion on the matter not the ingredients he or she used to draw that conclusion. I think it's safe to say that's how it went down with Boeheim, Hopkins and the program's stakeholders about staying, leaving and all in between.

The only thing I have to say about the OP's questions and some of the follow-on posts is the overriding influence of perception. Questioning what may or may not have been behind what happened isn't calling someone involved in the process supporting what was said publicly a liar. Far from it. Secondly, the idea that Boeheim is speaking indirectly to recruits through an article by insisting that he's not going anywhere is ridiculous. He can't change that he's 74 years old and no matter what he says about his plans, his age is low hanging fruit to those recruiting against him. It's the liability he bears for staying on.

I've spent some time with Boeheim. He's a friendly, open, caring man, generous to a fault, who's also got some hard competitive edges. To me, the better question other than his intentions has always been about what's best for the program. The larger picture. Has his decision to continue coaching been what's best for the program?

 

[andyw715]

...It's the liability he bears for staying on... The larger picture. Has his decision to continue coaching been what's best for the program?

I would say yes. The age liability (perception) can be managed much easier than an elite program going through several years of scholarship reductions and recruitment barriers without a HOF coach.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Here's an interesting question: is it a good idea for someone to suggest that a board administrator is lying? I'm going with no...

Especially with regard to CTO (SU trustee, benefactor, good friend of the first family of SU, and all around genuinely nice and caring person). To paraphrase Dino, the poster just didn't know

 

[moqui]

Of course they’re going to say that

so you're calling them all liars. got it.

 

[realorange]

I will answer your question very clearly

one reason it’s brought up two years later is the article just came out her locally

The second reason is he is stating clearly that he was 100% prepared to retire and it was Mike’s choice exclusively and I think that’s a lie !!!

did I answer your question?

So you know more than what was said =------based on your superior knowledge?

 

[MSOrange]

I think people are going to believe what they want to believe.

 

[Frozen]

I don’t care why or how he left. I just want him to eventually come back.

 

[20Plus]

There’s so many reasons to care about the latter even though it’s over and there’s nothing that can be done. Especially because what you want may have been affected by what happened

 

[20Plus]

So you know more than what was said =------based on your superior knowledge?

Something doesn’t add up
I’m not saying I know more. I’m saying I’m not going to be like some people on this board to just act like it didn’t happen or not wonder why or how it went down.

 

[20Plus]

so you're calling them all liars. got it.

Who knows but people say what needs to be said

 

[billsin01]

Did Mike leave Syracuse because..


A) He knew Jim wanted to stay?

B) He just randomly left the appointed head coaching job in waiting to coach Washington?

Some here have nothing but a guess and some have some inside knowledge. I fall more towards having inside information but not as much as some.

I believe it was A!


Syracuse coach Jim Boeheim previews 2019-20: ‘We’ll be an interesting team’

I have exactly zero inside knowledge and haven't read through the thread, but since it's a message board and it is the perfect place for pure conjecture, I think it was A and B. I'm sure Hop understood that JB still wanted to coach and wasn't exactly dying to push his mentor out the door. I also think Washington is a really good job and a great landing place. The two factors together made it a really tough job not to pursue and a really tough offer to turn down.

 

[kirbivore]

So, in other words, this is really nothing more than a game of Telephone, (i.e. Johnny heard Chris say this to Sheila who got this straight from Hop).
Or maybe, Hop told one of your acquaintances that JB doesn't really want to retire (in Hop's opinion) ergo JB must have told Hop this? Do you see how these things could have played out?
There's enough blanks to be filled in here by conjecture that I'd be cautious taking any of it as gospel.

 

[IthacaMatt]

Why did Mike get involved with other job openings prior to Washington?

To put pressure on the AD to make the transition. He had been coach in waiting for over a decade.

If you recall, when Jim heard that Mike was a candidate for USC, he was a bit terse in his press reaction, calling Mike "Coach Hopkins". After USC hired the guy-of-the-moment from Fla. Gulf Coast, then JB was all effusive in his praise of Mike.

 

[bballbeadle]

The NCAA didn't "mandate" it - SU threw it in as part of their preliminary self-imposed sanctions, as they tried to get out in front of the NCAA hammer fall.

My personal taek on all of this is:
JB was convinced by SU admins that he needed to fall on his sword due to the NCAA , but he refused to do so immediately, so then the "will retire in 3 years" thing got put out there.
Everybody was fairly OK with that. For a while.
Then JB got that 9 game suspension, and a real-life taste of what his world minus coaching Syracuse basketball would be like. Juli is on record stating he hated it, he was miserable.
Hop realizes JB doesn't really, really want to retire.
Hop doesn't want to be the guy who forces his mentor to retire before he's ready to.
Hop has a sick father on the other coast, so when the Washington job opens up, it neatly resolves all of those issues for Hop AND for JB:
Hop gets a P5 HC job, near his Dad, and JB gets to keep coaching for as long as he wants to.

This is the scenario that makes the most sense to me. Coach reluctantly named a retirement in 3 years in order to appease the NCAA and get the program back on track as quickly as possible. Then things changed, as above.