Maybe Shafer is in that position. Maybe you forgot but he he did go 7-6 in his first year and won a bowl game?
Class of 2016 OL Liam Smith (NJ) Verbal to Duke
- Thread starter Orangeyes
- Start date
anomander
Living Legend
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2012
- Messages
- 14,922
- Like
- 28,511
We went 7-6, but I know what I saw on the field. This is Shafer's 7th year in the program, let's see what he can do, the time is now.
Last edited:
If you have patience for SS your basically saying Syracuse is Duke post-Spurrier pre-Cutcliffe and sorry I know we have struggled but we are not Duke post-Spurrier pre-Cutcliffe. SS gets this year to prove himself, but outside of Bobby Acosta's hiring SS has lowered interest in Syracuse football not to Gerg levels but lowered interest for a reasonable portion of the fanbase.
In his first two years we haven't had a competent offense. What worked in 2013 a power running game was not used ulitized in 2014. Acosta has a great job getting us back into NJ recruiting and hope no matter what he has a future in Syracuse.
Cutcliffe would have gotten patience from our fanbase if we were Duke. Duke's entire history is sub .500 463-490-28. Syracuse history is 652-463-41. Duke from 1990-2007 before Cutcliffe went 43-140. Look at number and then see why that fanbase had patience. The answer is because Duke FB doesn't have a fanbase. David Cutcliffe's 9 wins in his first two years 9-15 was 1 win less than their previous 8 years before Cutcliffe ADDED up. My god our FB fanbase really has no expectations anymore.
People want to lower the bar and while Syracuse struggled for 4 years under Greg Robinson the program was back to middle of the road by the time Doug Marrone left. Scott Shafer inherited a middle of the road program. His first year won 7 games and only scored 30 points one time against a P5 team that season. Last year was a flat out embarrassment. I don't even care about wins I want to see a competent offense that looks like a decent college offense. I don't want to see crap show offense and rely on our defense to win every game 14-10.
Recruiting has gotten better thanks to Acosta IMO. This is a tough loss but Duke is a good academic school and down here in NC the school is referred to as the University of New Jersey at Durham.
In his first two years we haven't had a competent offense. What worked in 2013 a power running game was not used ulitized in 2014. Acosta has a great job getting us back into NJ recruiting and hope no matter what he has a future in Syracuse.
Cutcliffe would have gotten patience from our fanbase if we were Duke. Duke's entire history is sub .500 463-490-28. Syracuse history is 652-463-41. Duke from 1990-2007 before Cutcliffe went 43-140. Look at number and then see why that fanbase had patience. The answer is because Duke FB doesn't have a fanbase. David Cutcliffe's 9 wins in his first two years 9-15 was 1 win less than their previous 8 years before Cutcliffe ADDED up. My god our FB fanbase really has no expectations anymore.
People want to lower the bar and while Syracuse struggled for 4 years under Greg Robinson the program was back to middle of the road by the time Doug Marrone left. Scott Shafer inherited a middle of the road program. His first year won 7 games and only scored 30 points one time against a P5 team that season. Last year was a flat out embarrassment. I don't even care about wins I want to see a competent offense that looks like a decent college offense. I don't want to see crap show offense and rely on our defense to win every game 14-10.
Recruiting has gotten better thanks to Acosta IMO. This is a tough loss but Duke is a good academic school and down here in NC the school is referred to as the University of New Jersey at Durham.
It's his 3rd year as head coach nice try though. Also EVERY defense since he has been here has been good. granted he made a poor choice for his first OC but if he Lester can justbe mediocre then SU will be a good football team. Remember Shafers defense won most of the games while Doug was coach Doug only had one good offense had s entire headcoaching career I'm sure your eyes saw that too
djorange1989
Living Legend
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2013
- Messages
- 15,481
- Like
- 43,352
Agreed. Our defense has had an identity since Shafer has been here. If the offense can be respectable under Lester, and I think his scheme is a good fit, then we will be ok.
anomander
Living Legend
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2012
- Messages
- 14,922
- Like
- 28,511
I just don't get how you're on one end of the spectrum with Shafer, but the exactly opposite with Marrone. Seems like hurt feelings?
But this is a perfect example to your post last night about Shafer having great relationships with HS coaches, and how recruiting will get even better. It's great we can identify the "under the radar" talents like our first 2 commits, but if we want totake it to the next level as a program he's going to have to pull in more of the Liam Smith types of recruits. We were in on Smith, and Williams before Duke, both visited before them but still got beat out. Is it life or death, absolutely not, but I do think it's why you need to pull back on the great recruiting stuff until we start winning these types of battles. It's easy to beat nobody, or the Ivy, little harder to beat out conference foes.
Wait is the narrative SS and his staff are great at recruiting? I would admit freely his staff has been slightly better than Doug Marrone's staff. However, our recruiting has been bottom third for P5 conference teams and that hasn't improved. IF McDonald HAD BEEN decent as an OC I think and Acosta could have done the FL and NJ thing, but McDonald couldn't handle the OC job and we lost his recruiting.
SU FB recruiting under SS has been okay. If we win the Washington battle and other battles I will give major props and change, but SS has to show the results for his narrative of being a good recruiter be true.
anomander
Living Legend
- Joined
- Nov 30, 2012
- Messages
- 14,922
- Like
- 28,511
TheCusian said:
I definitely don't think they are significantly better then Marrone's , especially his 2012 class. Plus HCSS has a ton more resources to work with so they should be significantly better (which there not). We basically didn't have facilities until 2012.
And coming off a 4 year stretch where we won what 10 games?
Yeah I am going to have to disagree with pretty much everything you said. If you want to change P5 to BCS fine, but its the same thing. Also, our recruiting under DM and SS has not changed that much. SS hasn't brought in one ESPN top 300 kid and DM didn't have the IPF.
cuseguy
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2011
- Messages
- 11,696
- Like
- 11,702
I'm known as a debby downer, but losing kids to Duke is a bad sign. When I toured the campus several years ago, I thought they were running a high school program. The football atmosphere is a joke and makes SU look like Ohio State.
bcubs9497
Grumpy Fat B@stard
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 3,980
- Like
- 13,638
It's not just about facilities. There are all sorts of reasons why a kid will choose one school over another. Doesn't even have to be football-related.
TheCusian
Living Legend
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2012
- Messages
- 22,784
- Like
- 33,679
Alsacs said:
Not the same thing. And I'm not sure how much the IPF helped until it was actually built and in use (this class). Last time this came up I went through and looked at the class rankings. Marrone had one of the worst in our history in his first couple of seasons. We have been on average 10 spots better and are competing with Florida and Wisconsin instead of Akron, but yeah - "not changed that much". Also - a legitimate chance at Washington is huge.
You guys are right in that it needs to be better and that SS has some advantages that Marrone never had (White, ACC, IPF, he seems to like recruiting).
I'm not saying we can say they are great recruiters. But competent for sure.
Marrone was taking over from nothing. His first recruiting class he flipped Sharpe and Sharmarko late in the game. He got Morgan, Reddish, Trudo, Bromley. Marrone wasn't great at recruiting, but SS is not great at recruiting. He is better than Marrone, but the narrative he is great is not accurate and that is all I am saying. Marrrone was comptenent at recruiting as well the difference between SS and Marrrone is that SS hired Bobby Acosta who is getting it done in NJ. All these kids Pickard and Strickland who among our highest rated kids are from Acosta.
We had a chance with Ishaq Williams while Marrone was here and I would put that on the level talent Washington has. SS is not great at recruiting his passion and energy looks there unlike DM, but his record says okay.
wfschrec
Minister Of Defense
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 5,890
- Like
- 6,067
That is a reach considering 9 of them either didn't see the field or even make it ... each coach grabbed a skout top 300 (Williams for HCSS and Thompson for HCDM). But if you compare the offer sheets for the classes I don't think it is nearly that close if you look at say the 2014 class (Shafer's first full class) and the 2012 Marrone class (his fourth). The verdict is still out because honestly I would give Shafer the opportunity to grab another class or two before comparing it against Marrone's fourth class. Ward had offers from a ton of programs, we beat out OU for Dowells and Thomas, Franklin had a PSU offer ... it just seems like we are winning battles against schools we didn't win under Marrone. Hell look how quick Cabinda jumped ship once PSU came calling. Lets give Shafer another class (this 2016 with Washington could define his tenure at SU) and see how it looks. The fact that we have beat out U of M, Florida and other P5s gives me hope. In earnest we could theoretically grab a kid in Washington who is being offered by everyone and for the first time in a long time be a choice destination for a top recruit. If we don't see a boost in 2016 or 17 than I would agree and say things should be better. Washington could change all of this, I say give him 2016 before we can truly say he isn't able to leverage what he was given.
CuseLegacy
Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 95,965
- Like
- 151,610
I think you are confusing who was actually recruiting the kids you mentioned. Was it Marrone? Or was it Shafer and that coach he brought in... Daoust.
If SS was recruiting the guys under DM that I mentioned good, but that credit goes to HC. SS most likely helped with those defensive kids, but SS can't get the credit for them instead of DM and then SS get credit for Daoust and Acosta's work.
SS is average nationally at recruiting which is better than DM and PP, but on level with Gerg. The only good thing Gerg did was recruit Delone Carter, Justin Pugh, Alec Lemon, Ryan Nassib, Chandler Jones, Arthur Jones, and a couple of other kids.
CuseLegacy
Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 95,965
- Like
- 151,610
It's not the HC that does the recruiting it is the coaches that he hires that build the relationships and do the grunt work. Recruiting is a long term process. So you have to look at what Shafer and Daoust set in to motion recruiting wise under Marrone .
PhatOrange
Living Legend
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2011
- Messages
- 29,374
- Like
- 48,885
Shafer's kid's have a lot more P5 offers than either Marrone's or Gumps kids.
Comparing anything to Cutliffe is ridiculous considering how long he's been at Duke and been allowed by the administration (not the fans) to develop a program and contacts.
I hope Shafer is here 10 years just to piss off alsacs.
Comparing anything to Cutliffe is ridiculous considering how long he's been at Duke and been allowed by the administration (not the fans) to develop a program and contacts.
I hope Shafer is here 10 years just to piss off alsacs.
TheCusian
Living Legend
- Joined
- Sep 24, 2012
- Messages
- 22,784
- Like
- 33,679
Plus - we have it good authority that the way we are recruiting is a good strategy. The atmosphere that SS and co have created is compelling to families (and it's authentic). I can't get that video of Marrone with Ishaq out of my memory. Ineffective.
bcubs9497
Grumpy Fat B@stard
- Joined
- Nov 13, 2014
- Messages
- 3,980
- Like
- 13,638
HeaterCuse22
All Conference
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2011
- Messages
- 2,094
- Like
- 2,642
Yes.
It makes me legitimately laugh that you care to piss me off like I honestly really care. There are a lot of things in life way more important to me than Scott Shafer as SU HC. If you actually like the product on the field these past two years I hope you continue flushing you money down the toilet like I have for season tickets.
My god I am fair and you can disagree with me all you want I don't make statements in an echo chamber. When praise is warranted I am there when blame is deserved I am there. Scott Shafer isn't getting 10 years to piss me off he either wins and deserves more time or he fails and we get a new HC. Sorry you can't piss me off pal.
