Only P-5 team not to make ESPN's Top-75 college recruiting rankings

[IthacaBarrel]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but isn't the second signing day period, like, next week? We haven't seen a lot of movement.

We have 15 commits; that's the same amount as BYU, UCLA, and MSU. It's more than University of Cincinnati, UCF, Wisconsin, Ole Miss, Louisville, Purdue, Indiana, and Kansas per the aggregation site. We're ranked lower than all of those schools.

We also have the last "average" rating in the ACC and is slightly lower than #65 Boise State per the aggregation site. Indeed, the aggregation site has one P5 conference school lower than us, and it's Cal; they have 10 commits and a higher average rating . . . they aren't that much lower than us.

Given our attrition, these numbers are--to put it mildly--jarring. That's not a knock on the players, but c'mon, we shouldn't be the have the worst P5 recruiting. It's just sad.

*Edited to add more detail*

Who should be the worst P5 recruiting? Just curious

 

[longtimefan]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, but isn't the second signing day period, like, next week? We haven't seen a lot of movement.

We have 15 commits; that's the same amount as BYU, UCLA, and MSU. It's more than University of Cincinnati, UCF, Wisconsin, Ole Miss, Louisville, Purdue, Indiana, and Kansas per the aggregation site. We're ranked lower than all of those schools.

We also have the last "average" rating in the ACC and is slightly lower than #65 Boise State per the aggregation site. Indeed, the aggregation site has one P5 conference school lower than us, and it's Cal; they have 10 commits and a higher average rating . . . they aren't that much lower than us.

Given our attrition, these numbers are--to put it mildly--jarring. That's not a knock on the players, but c'mon, we shouldn't be the have the worst P5 recruiting. It's just sad.

*Edited to add more detail*

How did you come up with 15 recruits? The only way I could was with 12 HS players and 3 JUCO's. If so, why didn't you count the 5 portal additions?

The point being, there is a lot of subjectiveness involved in ranking programs after the top 20 or so.

 

[OburgOrange]

Not a surprise. Totally expected

 

[Cuse'91]

Who should be the worst P5 recruiting? Just curious

Vandy is S$C. Kansas and Indiana are Flagship State schools. BC is Parochial Catholic royalty behind ND. Wake and Duke sit smack dab in fertile Southern recruiting grounds, with top academics.
What's the saying - It you're looking around the poker table for the weakest player, then it's probably...

 

[Vorony]

I love these rankings how diligent are the guys sitting down and ranking team #52 versus #68? That must be super intense, pressure must be ridiculous. It's a joke, like taking a test with no right or wrong answers.

What separates Tulane at 69 from Houston at 56? some junk that they plug into a computer. 18 recruits versus 14? It's absurd. Is a guy doing a serious deep dive on Tulane's recruiting class? Seriously? I highly highly doubt it

I don’t think it’s just some guy pulling team names out of a hat and ranking them. There’s actual data that’s tabulated and that ranks the teams. Now if you’re questioning the data itself (star ratings, etc), then I see your point.

 

[sdhall01]

Who should be the worst P5 recruiting? Just curious

I can think of 64 other schools it should be. However, if you put a gun to my head, I'd say one of Vandy, Northwestern, or Kansas.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I don’t think it’s just some guy pulling team names out of a hat and ranking them. There’s actual data that’s tabulated and that ranks the teams. Now if you’re questioning the data itself (star ratings, etc), then I see your point.

That is 100% what I am questioning. The staffs in the back 1/2 to 1/3 of the recruiting rankings all have limitations in one form or the other. They are pouring through film of countless kids I am sure. All trying to get kids that fit their scheme and or program but also being realistic with what kids they can actually get. I would say those that do that best and develop these kids for what they were recruited for obviously have more success. But to get caught up on ranking #43 versus #61 like that actually means a GD thing is just so dumb to me. One guy says 3 star but they really don't know how certain kids will progress and where they will be in 3 years. Nobody really does. I guess I just don't get it. Computer rankings can only tell you so much. The best schools get the best rankings because they are the best schools and their offers influence how they are evaluated. And again, I am talking classed from say 35-40 through 80 and the further you get away from the top 10 it gets murkier. Syracuse will always be somewhere in the gray area

 

[sdhall01]

How did you come up with 15 recruits? The only way I could was with 12 HS players and 3 JUCO's. If so, why didn't you count the 5 portal additions?

The point being, there is a lot of subjectiveness involved in ranking programs after the top 20 or so.

The same way 247 does; HS commits + JUCOs. I'm fine with the subjectiveness, but I'd prefer it if the subjectiveness wasn't embarrassing us. We can't say there's nothing to this; there is.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

I can think of 64 other schools it should be. However, if you put a gun to my head, I'd say one of Vandy, Northwestern, or Kansas.

And I would disagree other than Kansas. You need to get to Northwestern and take a look at their practice facility. I might go there just for that

 

[money3189]

I don’t think it’s just some guy pulling team names out of a hat and ranking them. There’s actual data that’s tabulated and that ranks the teams. Now if you’re questioning the data itself (star ratings, etc), then I see your point.

Im not saying this hasnt been one of the most underwhelming classes for Dino because it is but espn is by far the worse when it comes to evaluating prospects. Ive seen them rank kids high for no reason at all and also rank kids low for no reason. Espn look at other sites and give grades based off that. This is what I was told by a couple analysts.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

The same way 247 does; HS commits + JUCOs. I'm fine with the subjectiveness, but I'd prefer it if the subjectiveness wasn't embarrassing us. We can't say there's nothing to this; there is.

To you there is. If the class was ranked #58 would you feel a lot better? IMO, it doesnt make a shite bit of difference

 

[Pyle]

4 Bowl games in the last 20+ years but yeah 'croot ranking don't matter right? Hint: They matter, even that whole 60-80 range. It's not coincidence that our bottom ranked classes finish near the bottom of the ACC in W-L every year. IT'S NOT COINCIDENCE! I argued this same nonsense for 20 years but alas, i was wrong, it matters.

 

[SoBristol]

4 Bowl games in the last 20+ years but yeah 'croot ranking don't matter right? Hint: They matter, even that whole 60-80 range. It's not coincidence that our bottom ranked classes finish near the bottom of the ACC in W-L every year. IT'S NOT COINCIDENCE! I argued this same nonsense for 20 years but alas, i was wrong, it matters.

Of course it matters, as you wrote. Can't blame the W/L all on time management, half time adjustments, or play-calling, or 4th down decisions. We had a bowl season in 2022 because we had a dual threat QB, our best RB in years, Bergeron, Jones, Williams, Carter, Gadsden -- our best collection of top players in many seasons.

I agree with others that the rankings (or offer lists) are not precise, especially for rankings 50 - 75. Several reasons for that. But when the folks who do the rankings (or pre-season evaluations of our talent) put us near the bottom of the ACC, are they wrong? Occasionally (2018 and 2022), but not regularly.

 

[sdhall01]

To you there is. If the class was ranked #58 would you feel a lot better? IMO, it doesnt make a shite bit of difference

Honestly? Yes. I would feel better if we weren’t basically probably last. Perception is, in many ways, reality whether we like it or not.

 

[money3189]

Bottom line. Dont expect high ranked classes. Im not surprised were battle Wake BC Duke GT UVA for our place in the bottom 5. Perception has been bad for 20 years now. We are used to it.

 

[longtimefan]

The same way 247 does; HS commits + JUCOs. I'm fine with the subjectiveness, but I'd prefer it if the subjectiveness wasn't embarrassing us. We can't say there's nothing to this; there is.

I contend that the methodology is flawed. They probably don't have the staff to do it, but portal arrivals need to be accounted for. Of course, then you might have to factor in portal departures, early NFL departures, etc.

I think that portal players will become at least as important as HS recruiting. Those have proven themselves at the college level, and they are very unlikely to transfer again, so they won't be Chestnut or Carter.

 

[CbusCuse]

Bottom line. Dont expect high ranked classes. Im not surprised were battle Wake BC Duke GT UVA for our place in the bottom 5. Perception has been bad for 20 years now. We are used to it.

And lower perception also leads to us having lower rated classes. If one of our kids then signed somewhere else they'd likely get a bump just for that.

I basically look at the kids in the class and judge for myself. I'd say most of them i'm happy about. I really like the transfers and Juco's we brought in. Transfers not really counted here. There are 3 or 4 freshman 2023 guys that I question there signing though. Thought we could have done a little better than those guys. But if they don't cut it, its likely easier to make them move on soon and fill with a portal transfer if we have a need. We are never going to recruit great to Syracuse but we can certainly improve. Recruiters matter but what matters more is winning and being more consistent in winning. Do that and recruiting will improve. I think we have good coaches and a lot of guys on the roster that can help do that.

 

[SU91]

I can think of 64 other schools it should be. However, if you put a gun to my head, I'd say one of Vandy, Northwestern, or Kansas.

I’m always curious why people always use Northwestern as an example of a team that shouldn’t be as good as us.

They have an infinitely better coach. Better facilities. Top academics. A world class city. A better conference.

I know they had a poor year last year, but their results over the past two decades are superior as well. Heck, they played for the BIG Championship two years ago.

This isn’t 1985. Northwestern is a good program. We have serious issues.

 

[Pyle]

I basically look at the kids in the class and judge for myself. I'd say most of them i'm happy about.

I tried doing this for 20 years. I was constantly let down. Hope you're better at it than me.

 

[javadoc]

Bottom line. Dont expect high ranked classes. Im not surprised were battle Wake BC Duke GT UVA for our place in the bottom 5. Perception has been bad for 20 years now. We are used to it.

Even though I really don't like the way that NIL and transfer loosening are influencing the game, someone needs to start analyzing how much recruiting rankings out of HS correlate with team success now. I'll bet it decreases, and that the effect will spill "upwards" into teams in that gray area of recruiting Barrel alluded to.

 

[money3189]

And lower perception also leads to us having lower rated classes. If one of our kids then signed somewhere else they'd likely get a bump just for that.

I basically look at the kids in the class and judge for myself. I'd say most of them i'm happy about. I really like the transfers and Juco's we brought in. Transfers not really counted here. There are 3 or 4 freshman 2023 guys that I question there signing though. Thought we could have done a little better than those guys. But if they don't cut it, its likely easier to make them move on soon and fill with a portal transfer if we have a need. We are never going to recruit great to Syracuse but we can certainly improve. Recruiters matter but what matters more is winning and being more consistent in winning. Do that and recruiting will improve. I think we have good coaches and a lot of guys on the roster that can help do that.

Well said. I will add if anyone thinks Rashard's Perry espn ranking is justified they need to get their head checked.

 

[SU91]

We get good players. Just not enough of them. Simple. We may hit on 3/10 players being impactful. Another program may hit on 6/10. Game over. We lose. Rankings matter because they correlate.

If the rankings were always off, our W/L record would fluctuate more widely, but we’ve been pretty consistently in the L column.

Not only can you see it in the results, you can see it with you eyes. Our players are generally slower, smaller, less skilled (or missing some combination of speed, strength, skill). It’s not an accident when one of our receivers drops a pass while a better athlete would’ve caught it. Talent scouts see this too, thus we have the rankings.

 

[upperdeck]

once you get past the top like 200 kids its a crap shoot. 60+ teams bringing 20-25 kids. so 1-2k of kids to review and follow and track for these sites. They dont all get a deap review and if most of your class falls in that group you wont have a solid ranking.

Only 1 ranking that matters.. What does the staff think. And with the portal they have options over HS kids more than ever so why offer marginal kids at all.

 

[tep624]

once you get past the top like 200 kids its a crap shoot. 60+ teams bringing 20-25 kids. so 1-2k of kids to review and follow and track for these sites. They dont all get a deap review and if most of your class falls in that group you wont have a solid ranking.

Only 1 ranking that matters.. What does the staff think. And with the portal they have options over HS kids more than ever so why offer marginal kids at all.

It is but you can get a general feel on the possible success of a prospect based on what teams are recruiting them.

At a minimum, I like to see heavy G5 offer lists on HS guys we're taking a flyer on, and work up from there. That isn't this class this year, and you're not going to have a chance in the rankings without a homer analyst at the sites without, at a minimum, landing prospects your peers wanted.

And here's the other thing - with our portal kids, people rally around Bellamy and Gould because of their P5 offers and their rankings at the sites. You can't have it both ways.

 

[rocklloyd]

I think this is why we are seeing wholesale changes in staff. These numbers have to change/improve.