Open Letter to Cuse Athletics - Let the Students Pack the Dome for FREE Friday Night!

[BVille44]

As of this morning there has been nothing in the DO about the students getting in free to the Louisville game. If that's the case a national TV audience will get to see empty silver benches across the entire lower level end zone for each TD since the band has moved to the corner. I cannot blame the students for not showing up since I checked out Ticketmaster a few minutes ago and it appears the entire community has decided to watch the game on ESPN2. By the looks of it I don't think we wont draw more than 30,000 if the students don't get in for free. What a disgrace.

 

[rrlbees]

As of this morning there has been nothing in the DO about the students getting in free to the Louisville game. If that's the case a national TV audience will get to see empty silver benches across the entire lower level end zone for each TD since the band has moved to the corner. I cannot blame the students for not showing up since I checked out Ticketmaster a few minutes ago and it appears the entire community has decided to watch the game on ESPN2. By the looks of it I don't think we wont draw more than 30,000 if the students don't get in for free. What a disgrace.

Why do you think the student sections will be empty?

 

[BVille44]

Why do you think the student sections will be empty?

Believe me I hope I am wrong. I think the student section on the sidelines will be full as always but based upon last year they rarely filled the end zone seats after the first game when the freshman got in for free. I really hope a decision is made to let them in for free (and give the student season ticket holders a concession voucher).

 

[bnoro]

Believe me I hope I am wrong. I think the student section on the sidelines will be full as always but based upon last year they rarely filled the end zone seats after the first game when the freshman got in for free. I really hope a decision is made to let them in for free (and give the student season ticket holders a concession voucher).

A concession voucher is not a suitable replacement for a student who paid for STs. I would be livid if they did that when I was a student. Especially if it's a ranked opponent.

 

[rrlbees]

A concession voucher is not a suitable replacement for a student who paid for STs. I would be livid if they did that when I was a student. Especially if it's a ranked opponent.

 

[BVille44]

View attachment 75377

Based upon this email it looks like they did a good job with FSU and ND tickets.

 

[rrlbees]

Based upon this email it looks like they did a good job with FSU and ND tickets.

Yes they did. Does my son need an FSU tix? No, he already bought one since they weren't included in the season tix package. Does he need a ND tix? No because he's going with me. Does he need another Orange tshirt? No, he has about 20 of them.

But it is a great gesture by SU. Far far more than I would expect as a gesture to students who already bought tickets. I'm sure there are students who will take advantage of this great offer.

 

[bnoro]

Yep, that's a much better offer than just something like concessions. Good on SU for this one.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[skurey]

While I'm happy for the students do you think they're only doing this because of the lack of tickets sold?

 

[TheCusian]

773911619558596609

Somewhere a kid with 10 credit hours is kicking himself.

 

[690West]

While I'm happy for the students do you think they're only doing this because of the lack of tickets sold?

Absolutely

 

[Cusefan95]

Tennessee only recently started charging for tickets. I think still sell out student season tickets, but regardless of free or not I think they have a lottery with upperclassmen getting some sort of preferential consideration. Obviously it's too late for that this year, but SU could that in the future withe free student tickets. As the team gets better and demand increases they could start charging again.

I'm not an alumnus but I think doing whatever is necessary to increase student attendance/involvement would benefit the atmosphere.

Some NBA teams tried a few years ago virtually giving away tickets (selling for $1 day-of-game)...they had very few takers, but successfully irritated people that paid more because it devalued those seats. Giving away tickets isn't the slam-dunk way to get students in the door, because they have absolutely nothing invested...its really easy to just decide to do something else last minute. Schools like Tennessee can do it because there is more demand than supply; that is really the only way free student tickets makes any sense. Otherwise the odds are you are giving up revenue for a minimal increase in attendance.

In this case it looks like McDonald's effectively paid SU for the tickets - they'll get advertising considerations, SU gets the good PR of giving away tickets to students, the student section will see a couple hundred more students than it would have otherwise (not enough to really matter)...and we'll repeat this cycle endlessly until Syracuse fields a winner that students actually want to see - because that is the only way to see a sustainable increase in student attendance and involvement.

 

[BVille44]

I also think they are doing it for Babers who wants people in the dome tomorrow night. Last night on his radio he said he wants the dome sold out or tickets given out to fill the place. I agree things are going to change when the casual fan sees his offense. Can't wait for tomorrow night.

 

[sufandu]

Some NBA teams tried a few years ago virtually giving away tickets (selling for $1 day-of-game)...they had very few takers, but successfully irritated people that paid more because it devalued those seats. Giving away tickets isn't the slam-dunk way to get students in the door, because they have absolutely nothing invested...its really easy to just decide to do something else last minute. Schools like Tennessee can do it because there is more demand than supply; that is really the only way free student tickets makes any sense. Otherwise the odds are you are giving up revenue for a minimal increase in attendance.

In this case it looks like McDonald's effectively paid SU for the tickets - they'll get advertising considerations, SU gets the good PR of giving away tickets to students, the student section will see a couple hundred more students than it would have otherwise (not enough to really matter)...and we'll repeat this cycle endlessly until Syracuse fields a winner that students actually want to see - because that is the only way to see a sustainable increase in student attendance and involvement.

But you don't have to piss anyone off if you do it right off the bat. Like I said it's too early to do it this year, but next year they could plan for it, especially if we look exciting throughout the year. College kids will do whatever they think is exciting or fun. If there's way more demand than supply you charge a low price for tickets and adjust as needed from season to season. College kids are fickle, but we can't just throw up our hands and give up. We need to do something to get them in the building. College students are the heart of any college sports atmosphere. Obviously, winning in an exciting way is ultimately our best strategy but we also need a catalyst at this point.

 

[Cusefan95]

But you don't have to piss anyone off if you do it right off the bat. Like I said it's too early to do it this year, but next year they could plan for it, especially if we look exciting throughout the year. College kids will do whatever they think is exciting or fun. If there's way more demand than supply you charge a low price for tickets and adjust as needed from season to season. College kids are fickle, but we can't just throw up our hands and give up. We need to do something to get them in the building. College students are the heart of any college sports atmosphere. Obviously, winning in an exciting way is ultimately our best strategy but we also need a catalyst at this point.

This is exactly the OPPOSITE of what Syracuse should do. If demand is greater than supply for tickets, then giving them away for "free" through a lottery system would make sense. The problem with giving away tickets when demand is far lower than supply is that you already have a product at a low perceived value, and then you further devalue (the perception of) it by giving it away for free. You are literally telling the student that the tickets are worthless and have no value. There is an extremely high probability of lots of no-shows when you do this; it is not a strategy to increase student involvement/attendance that will work out.

The part of this discussion which I can't wrap my head around is that people on this board talk about how Syracuse in general and the student body in particular only show up for big events. You know its a big event when its hard to get tickets, or they are well over face value. Yet the key to getting students to show up to football games is to give them free tickets? We're going to communicate to them this is the exact opposite of a big event, you'd pay more to go to a high school football game on Friday nite...and that's going to convince students that the Dome is the place to be on Friday nite. Its magical thinking.

 

[sufandu]

This is exactly the OPPOSITE of what Syracuse should do. If demand is greater than supply for tickets, then giving them away for "free" through a lottery system would make sense. The problem with giving away tickets when demand is far lower than supply is that you already have a product at a low perceived value, and then you further devalue (the perception of) it by giving it away for free. You are literally telling the student that the tickets are worthless and have no value. There is an extremely high probability of lots of no-shows when you do this; it is not a strategy to increase student involvement/attendance that will work out.

The part of this discussion which I can't wrap my head around is that people on this board talk about how Syracuse in general and the student body in particular only show up for big events. You know its a big event when its hard to get tickets, or they are well over face value. Yet the key to getting students to show up to football games is to give them free tickets? We're going to communicate to them this is the exact opposite of a big event, you'd pay more to go to a high school football game on Friday nite...and that's going to convince students that the Dome is the place to be on Friday nite. Its magical thinking.

So you give away tickets when people want them and charge money when people don't? That makes no sense. Do you buy a car from the most expensive dealer so that you feel better about it too?

The perceived value can't be lower than it is right now and the only thing that will improve it is sustained success on the field. Charging students money isn't currently working, so what is the plan, raise prices?

If charging more money to increase percieved value were the answer, the middle sections of the Dome would be filled and the end zones would be empty. It's the opposite. Right now we need to do whatever is necessary to put fannies on aluminum to improve atmosphere and look good on TV. The way it is now isn't helping, so something different needs to be attempted.

If lowering prices for non students and giving away tickets to students doesn't work, nothing is lost because people aren't going now.

In a few years this will hopefully be a non issue when we're one of the most exciting teams in college football.

 

[Cusefan95]

So you give away tickets when people want them and charge money when people don't? That makes no sense. Do you buy a car from the most expensive dealer so that you feel better about it too?

The perceived value can't be lower than it is right now and the only thing that will improve it is sustained success on the field. Charging students money isn't currently working, so what is the plan, raise prices?

If charging more money to increased percieved value were the answer, the middle sections of the Dome would be filled and the end zones would be empty. It's the opposite. Right now we need to do whatever is necessary to put fannies on aluminum to improve atmosphere and look good on TV. The way it is now isn't helping, so something different needs to be attempted.

If lowering prices for non students and giving away tickets to students doesn't work, nothing is lost because people aren't going now.

In a few years this will hopefully be a non issue when we're one of the most exciting teams in college football.

It almost never makes sense to give away a substantial amount free tickets, but for whatever reason there is a huge contingent of our fan base hell bent on promoting free tickets for students so I'm pointing out the only time it can be defended. Tennessee giving away student tickets can be defended, Syracuse giving away tickets can't. It's actually pretty basic economics.

As Syracuse football declined, they tried reducing ticket prices to increase attendance. It didn't work, and it lead to a pricing structure that was totally out of whack. I used to have preferred seating but switched to the end zone, because the pricing difference was unacceptable. So the end zones having more fans than the sidelines at games actually illustrates exactly why playing games with ticket prices is a high risk, low reward option for the school.

Giving away free tickets for a product that's not in demand absolutely impacts the perception of your product and your revenues. Years ago I lived in Albany and would occasionally buy tickets to their AHL team. They started giving away tickets at Berkshire Bank locations, which influenced me in two ways - first, I stopped buying tickets because they were free. Second, I occasionally blew off games when I had tickets and something came up - because what did it matter, the tickets didn't cost me anything. The team stunk; giving away free tickets didn't increase the crowd - it just meant that the die-hands went for free now, and you still had 1,200 at the games. Just less revenue to show for it.

There is absolutely a cost to poor ticket pricing strategy.

 

[sufandu]

It almost never makes sense to give away a substantial amount free tickets, but for whatever reason there is a huge contingent of our fan base hell bent on promoting free tickets for students so I'm pointing out the only time it can be defended. Tennessee giving away student tickets can be defended, Syracuse giving away tickets can't. It's actually pretty basic economics.

As Syracuse football declined, they tried reducing ticket prices to increase attendance. It didn't work, and it lead to a pricing structure that was totally out of whack. I used to have preferred seating but switched to the end zone, because the pricing difference was unacceptable. So the end zones having more fans than the sidelines at games actually illustrates exactly why playing games with ticket prices is a high risk, low reward option for the school.

Giving away free tickets for a product that's not in demand absolutely impacts the perception of your product and your revenues. Years ago I lived in Albany and would occasionally buy tickets to their AHL team. They started giving away tickets at Berkshire Bank locations, which influenced me in two ways - first, I stopped buying tickets because they were free. Second, I occasionally blew off games when I had tickets and something came up - because what did it matter, the tickets didn't cost me anything. The team stunk; giving away free tickets didn't increase the crowd - it just meant that the die-hands went for free now, and you still had 1,200 at the games. Just less revenue to show for it.

There is absolutely a cost to poor ticket pricing strategy.

I agree giving away tickets doesn't make sense when people are showing, but right now they're not. Sometimes you have to give away a small amount of product to show a cynical consumer it's worth buying.

The problem with what you described about the end zone prices is that they didn't do it proportionally throughout the whole building. If they lowered your preferred seating price maybe you, and people like you, stay where you/they were and some other people buy the seats you/they would have moved to. Look at that, more people in the building.

If the temporary answer isn't lowering prices/giving some away, what is? Rather than just poo pooing someone else's suggestion why not offer one?

 

[AirForceOrange]

Actually it sounds like McDs is purchasing the tickets, and in turn are giving them for free to a full time student. So basically and technically, the school is not giving them away for free, McDs is...

 

[OttoMets]

It almost never makes sense to give away a substantial amount free tickets, but for whatever reason there is a huge contingent of our fan base hell bent on promoting free tickets for students so I'm pointing out the only time it can be defended. Tennessee giving away student tickets can be defended, Syracuse giving away tickets can't. It's actually pretty basic economics.

As Syracuse football declined, they tried reducing ticket prices to increase attendance. It didn't work, and it lead to a pricing structure that was totally out of whack. I used to have preferred seating but switched to the end zone, because the pricing difference was unacceptable. So the end zones having more fans than the sidelines at games actually illustrates exactly why playing games with ticket prices is a high risk, low reward option for the school.

Giving away free tickets for a product that's not in demand absolutely impacts the perception of your product and your revenues. Years ago I lived in Albany and would occasionally buy tickets to their AHL team. They started giving away tickets at Berkshire Bank locations, which influenced me in two ways - first, I stopped buying tickets because they were free. Second, I occasionally blew off games when I had tickets and something came up - because what did it matter, the tickets didn't cost me anything. The team stunk; giving away free tickets didn't increase the crowd - it just meant that the die-hands went for free now, and you still had 1,200 at the games. Just less revenue to show for it.

There is absolutely a cost to poor ticket pricing strategy.

Same reason the Chiefs abandoned that strategy this year, too.

 

[Cusefan95]

If the temporary answer isn't lowering prices/giving some away, what is? Rather than just poo pooing someone else's suggestion why not offer one?

Monmouth saw a huge increase in student attendance in basketball several years ago; Binghamton led America East in attendance when they first joined the conference. I don't know that there is an answer, but if it was my job I'd be studying what those schools did since they were not winners at the time the attendance jumped. There's probably other examples more recent than the two I mentioned - find them and copy what makes sense.

I would also ask students for input, knowing going in that "free tickets!" will be a common answer...and that I'd have no intention of listening to it.

 

[cuseincincy]

Full time college students should always be able to get in free to their university's sporting events. They should also be able to purchase additional tickets in the student section for friends and family. They are already "invested" in the university. If they stop by for 1/2 hour on their way to or from somewhere so be it. The only time/place that this might be questionable is if they are at a school where the seating capacity is not capable of absorbing a huge student turnout in addition to a decent paid attendance. Neither of those are the case for SU. JMHO. LGO!

 

[orangenauburn]

School was smart

They partnered with someone to still get their money's worth, in exchange for advertising time

 

[SUbear]

SU definitely does not receive all the revenue from food/drink. That goes to the F/B supplier and then SU gets maybe half of that.

When they gave out free tix during the Marrone era it didn't really work, and it pissed off all of us who paid full price for our season tickets. Either bake the cost into the SA fee before the year, or have people buy it. But you can't decide midseason to do it.

SU gets way more than half. Beer sales the profit for SU is about 80%, profit on soda on tap is also large bottled drinks a little less, but still much greater than half the price to customer. Food profits are more in line with your half figure, but still more than half.