Opposing Coach(es) Size Up Syracuse

[Sudano]

Just got my Athlon College Football preview. They like us to go 9-3 and their write up shows good respect. But they had a side-bar with the above title. It seemed to be from one opposing coach as it had the same theme throughout:

"Dino Babers has had a remarkable run with a roster that's had a lot of experience. he's done a great job. But he's had a team full of older kids. He's had that quarterback (Eric Dungey) ever since he's been there and this past season all of that came to fruition. Now because of their talent base and what you can really do with recruiting there, there's a big question around if he can keep it going, if he can keep winning and keep attention on the program with the less experienced side of that roster. it's going to be hard...The interesting thing about an Art Briles offensive system is that it's built almost exclusively on the talent level and the awareness of your quarterback your quarterback. The other skill position experience doesn't dictate anything. What are they going to look like now? Tommy DeVito is the guy there; they lost the other kid (Chance Amie) to the transfer portal along with their best receiver. Just based on experience, we think they're going to fall back and look as young as they are on offense...Defensively they're built to suit their offense, which is sort of saying that they're not really extra talented at any one place and they want to take risks and the ball back to their QBs. Just like with the offense, they had a lot of veterans last year so they could do more. let's see how multiple they can get with new personnel they've been recruiting."

Apparently these (this) anonymous coaches (coach) thinks Dino won last year with Shafer's grown-up recruits and that the recruiting has gone downhill since he arrived. I assume he thinks our "best receiver" was Devin Butler and that Alton Robinson, Kendall Coleman and Andre Cisco aren't "extra talented". I also wonder how much of this is Art Briles' system and how much of it is Dino Baber's system. Finally, if "experience doesn't dictate anything" in Briles' system, then why does he thing we will "fall back" because we lack it?

Have at it.

Just an odd take when our 7 deep on DL are Jr and Srs. Also forgot Adams and Jackson who are basically Jrs and Devito 3 yrs in our program. Someone send this to Dino so he can use it as some extra motivation.

 

[Sudano]

Seems to me a lot of the responses here could be described as, “I don’t like what the guy says so he must be an idiot”.

Now I hope the guy isn’t right. But I don’t think you can just blow off the opinion as being stupid or posed by someone who hasn’t been paying attention. These guys live and breathe this stuff 24x7x365.

This coach isn’t buying into the idea that SU can replace the outgoing seniors and transfers and be as effective as they were last year. SU’s success last year was based on experience not great talent.

Most importantly, he is questioning the sustainability of SU’s team except in years when we have a very experienced roster.

“SU’s fundamental problem is the talent base in their geographic area and the difficulty attracting the top recruit.”

This could be an honest opinion of a knowledgeable person who might be wrong or who might be right.

But it might be the “elevator speech” that coaches use against SU in the world of recruiting. They say it so much that they internalize it as truth.

We will know which is true in mid-October.

His post is just factually incorrect. He lives his team 24x7 not others. We aren't inexperienced, we are not going to mis Amie,

 

[C Bomb]

Lol - a long story short - I think it was the NYSHSFCA clinic before SS’s last season. Things were already a bit more tense with them, and I think they were feeling some pressure. But, they really were always phenomenal to local coaches.

Anyway, I’m standing in the Hallway talking to Daoust and Lester - SS has just left, I believe it was Saturday or Sunday morning. Mind you, there’s dozens of HS coaches walking by, we’re just posted up in the hallway.

Anyway, the Syracuse guys are already pissed that Clawson from WF is the keynote speaker (because of his CNY ties). It was right before or right after National Signing Day, I can’t remember for sure. Regardless, we had stolen a 3-tech from Wake’s back yard, Ty Cross is in my head. Can’t remember if that was his name or not.

So Daoust gets word that up to the last minute, Wake was telling Ty that Tim had accepted another job, the staff was on its way out the door, etc. Really hard negative recruiting.

Right after Daoust finds that out, (he had gotten a call from Ty) we’re in the hallway and the Wake staff rolls out of a conference room they had just done a clinic in. Picture a group of high schoolers jawing at each other and squaring up in the hallway - now picture that with 6-8 grown @ $ $ men.
Timmy D was calling them out and they essentially tucked their tails and scooted out nearest exit left.

It’s one of those things that you can’t believe it’s happening as it’s happening.

Those staffs were not fond of each other.

Clawson seems to me as holding a grudge for being a former upstate prospect that Cuse never pursued. That is the only way I can fathom his unhinged dislike of our program

 

[Townie72]

His post is just factually incorrect. He lives his team 24x7 not others. We aren't inexperienced, we are not going to mis Amie,

I hope he’s wrong.

But here’s another poster dismissing the guy’s opinion out of hand.

At least one week during the year, the guy watches a whole lot of SU game tape, if we play them. He doesn’t only watch his team. It’s possible that he has honestly said to himself that SU is good based on experience and not raw talent.

It’s also possible that the guy has an educated opinion on the quality of our recruits.

But it may be the recruiting pitch he is repeating over and over as in, “SU is just a flash in the pan.”

 

[OrangeDW]

Seems to me a lot of the responses here could be described as, “I don’t like what the guy says so he must be an idiot”.

Now I hope the guy isn’t right. But I don’t think you can just blow off the opinion as being stupid or posed by someone who hasn’t been paying attention. These guys live and breathe this stuff 24x7x365.

This coach isn’t buying into the idea that SU can replace the outgoing seniors and transfers and be as effective as they were last year. SU’s success last year was based on experience not great talent.

Most importantly, he is questioning the sustainability of SU’s team except in years when we have a very experienced roster.

“SU’s fundamental problem is the talent base in their geographic area and the difficulty attracting the top recruit.”

This could be an honest opinion of a knowledgeable person who might be wrong or who might be right.

But it might be the “elevator speech” that coaches use against SU in the world of recruiting. They say it so much that they internalize it as truth.

We will know which is true in mid-October.

This year’s team has a lot of experience though...

And the point about Amie(the likely backup QB) transferring, and one productive WR graduating(when we have every other productive WR returning and Trishton Jackson now eligible) were not good points.

 

[Orangepace]

While I think the method of delivery is completely sour grapes, I do believe there is some fair assessment in the statements.

My biggest question, concern if you will, entering this season is how does this offense fair without Dungey's legs and moxy. Prior to last season, these were a big big issue for us, as it was difficult to keep him healthy. Last year, he stayed healthy and everything finally came together. I remember DB saying last season that TD is actually faster than ED, but that doesn't necessarily translate to what Eric's decision making capabilities on the field. Tommy is surely a better passer. I'm hoping that TD's ability to extend the plays and find receivers downfield on broken coverages overcomes the ability ED showed in extending drives with his legs. Jury's still out though.

The WR's may be more talented now, but will they play to the level Custis did last season. He had some big time catches in big time situations last season. Hopefully we're able to spread the field more with TD's arm and these highlight reel catches aren't needed.

TE is definitely a concern for me. Pierce may not have had the stats that I'd have expected from a big time TE, but the guy drew attention for sure. Our current TE situation has me concerned.

The statements about our defense are wildly incorrect. Basically that coach is saying that SU had a turnover-chain like fluke year. I vehemently disagree with him there.

 

[OttoMets]

This year’s team has a lot of experience though...

And the point about Amie(the likely backup QB) transferring, and one productive WR graduating(when we have every other productive WR returning and Trishton Jackson now eligible) were not good points.

Exactly. Let's have a show of hands - who around here thinks Custis (who was valuable, not knocking him) was SU's best receiver, as this guy claimed?

Nobody? Exactly.

There are real reasons why SU could struggle this year (OL, not as many turnovers, not as special special teams, etc.), but that coach didn't touch on any of them.

 

[Aqua2050]

There is one valid point. We don't really know what we will get out of Tommy at QB position this year. It could be a hit or a miss (learning curve). I hope we have a fantastic year but i think there is a lot of pressure on this young man to be good (especially from the fans).

 

[OrangeDW]

There is one valid point. We don't really know what we will get out of Tommy at QB position this year. It could be a hit or a miss (learning curve). I hope we have a fantastic year but i think there is a lot of pressure on this young man to be good (especially from the fans).

Yes. But the nature of college football is that you’ll have a new starting QB pretty often.

I feel good that it’s a big recruit who helped win a couple games last year as the backup. If you have to replace a star senior QB, this is about the best case scenario for doing it.

 

[SWC75]

I hope he’s wrong.

But here’s another poster dismissing the guy’s opinion out of hand.

At least one week during the year, the guy watches a whole lot of SU game tape, if we play them. He doesn’t only watch his team. It’s possible that he has honestly said to himself that SU is good based on experience and not raw talent.

It’s also possible that the guy has an educated opinion on the quality of our recruits.

But it may be the recruiting pitch he is repeating over and over as in, “SU is just a flash in the pan.”

The key question here seems to be the 'experience' angle. In your opinion is our projected line-up for this year inexperienced? If not, then the coach who was quoted seems ill-informed.

2019_PreseasonDepthChart (PDF) - Syracuse University Athletics

 

[Townie72]

This year’s team has a lot of experience though...

And the point about Amie(the likely backup QB) transferring, and one productive WR graduating(when we have every other productive WR returning and Trishton Jackson now eligible) were not good points.

Some weak examples the guy used, might not detract from his larger and more important point (In my mind). And that is that the overall talent on SU is not that good because of our recruiting pool (local) and "what you can really do with recruiting there."

You guys can laugh at, denigrate, minimize and disbelieve what the anonymous guy is saying. He may not even be sincere or he might be putting out some negative spin so he can slow down the SU momentum.

But doesn't any of this "Babers for President" euphoria and 2019 optimism sometimes feel a little unreal?

 

[Townie72]

The key question here seems to be the 'experience' angle. In your opinion is our projected line-up for this year inexperienced? If not, then the coach who was quoted seems ill-informed.

2019_PreseasonDepthChart (PDF) - Syracuse University Athletics

Then the argument is between this guy and you. He's saying they are. And I'm not sure what he means and why he is saying that.

So he is either way off base (possible) or he is beyond us in the depth of his analysis.

I can look at the roster and make a guess. I'm just not sure what value that has.

 

[007]

I hope he’s wrong.

But here’s another poster dismissing the guy’s opinion out of hand.

At least one week during the year, the guy watches a whole lot of SU game tape, if we play them. He doesn’t only watch his team. It’s possible that he has honestly said to himself that SU is good based on experience and not raw talent.

It’s also possible that the guy has an educated opinion on the quality of our recruits.

But it may be the recruiting pitch he is repeating over and over as in, “SU is just a flash in the pan.”

The coach's critique that was referenced, at least as quoted by SWC75, is misinformed at best . Not the least of which was the "point" about the general experience level of this year's team as compared to last year's team. Add in the points about the loss of the "best" WR, the nonsensical reference to the transfer of the least experienced QB, and the implied lack of talent being recruited and it does not seem unreasonable for knowledgable posters to dismiss the guy's opinion "out of hand," IMO.

DB finally has a roster filled with guys he recruited for his system, including the Elite 11 QB who is entering his 3rd year in the system. The long time season ticket holders among us, and even the more casual fans, can't help but notice the uptick in overall talent, speed, size, strength, and, now, experience with the system.

This guy might watch "a whole lot of SU game tape." If so, I hope game plans are being made based on his insights.

 

[SWC75]

Then the argument is between this guy and you. He's saying they are. And I'm not sure what he means and why he is saying that.

So he is either way off base (possible) or he is beyond us in the depth of his analysis.

I can look at the roster and make a guess. I'm just not sure what value that has.

Before you side with the quoted coach, whose opinion is largely based on whether we are an inexperienced team, you really should look at the depth chart and decide for yourself if you think this is an inexperienced team. If you don't agree with that point, you don't really agree with the coach.

 

[Townie72]

Before you side with the quoted coach, whose opinion is largely based on whether we are an inexperienced team, you really should look at the depth chart and decide for yourself if you think this is an inexperienced team. If you don't agree with that point, you don't really agree with the coach.

I am not siding and have not anywhere in this string sided with this coach's opinion.

And, this is not an "inexperienced" team. Only about 25% of the two deep is a Fr, R-Fr or So.

 

[OrangeDW]

Some weak examples the guy used, might not detract from his larger and more important point (In my mind). And that is that the overall talent on SU is not that good because of our recruiting pool (local) and "what you can really do with recruiting there."

You guys can laugh at, denigrate, minimize and disbelieve what the anonymous guy is saying. He may not even be sincere or he might be putting out some negative spin so he can slow down the SU momentum.

But doesn't any of this "Babers for President" euphoria and 2019 optimism sometimes feel a little unreal?

Talent is based on recruiting...but also player development. And I think we’re excelling there.

Babers has proven to be a very good head coach at each of his stops, by year 3. He just led Syracuse to its best season in 18 years. Probably more(I think the 2018 season was more impressive than 2001). I think the optimism is justified at this point.

 

[bcubs9497]

I'll rely on Steven's opinion; and the pre-season coach's poll that came out.

 

[SUbear]

There is one valid point. We don't really know what we will get out of Tommy at QB position this year. It could be a hit or a miss (learning curve). I hope we have a fantastic year but i think there is a lot of pressure on this young man to be good (especially from the fans).

Tommy will be different but not worse than Dungey, the key is how well our OL plays not just individually but more importantly as a cohesive unit. The OL will be the key to how well we do and this coach never even mentioned that.

 

[Sudano]

I hope he’s wrong.

But here’s another poster dismissing the guy’s opinion out of hand.

At least one week during the year, the guy watches a whole lot of SU game tape, if we play them. He doesn’t only watch his team. It’s possible that he has honestly said to himself that SU is good based on experience and not raw talent.

It’s also possible that the guy has an educated opinion on the quality of our recruits.

But it may be the recruiting pitch he is repeating over and over as in, “SU is just a flash in the pan.”

It wasn't dismissed out of hand. I read it carefully and analysed its content. He is not correct on most of its main points. Its an opinion but I disagree with it because its not valid. I too watch SU alot.
There are valid concerns but they aren't what he listed.

 

[Scooch]

I hope he’s wrong.

But here’s another poster dismissing the guy’s opinion out of hand.

At least one week during the year, the guy watches a whole lot of SU game tape, if we play them. He doesn’t only watch his team. It’s possible that he has honestly said to himself that SU is good based on experience and not raw talent.

It’s also possible that the guy has an educated opinion on the quality of our recruits.

But it may be the recruiting pitch he is repeating over and over as in, “SU is just a flash in the pan.”

Nah, it's a terrible take, built on fundamental misunderstandings of our roster.

Not every coach is brilliant.

 

[shu 49]

Lol - a long story short - I think it was the NYSHSFCA clinic before SS’s last season. Things were already a bit more tense with them, and I think they were feeling some pressure. But, they really were always phenomenal to local coaches.

Anyway, I’m standing in the Hallway talking to Daoust and Lester - SS has just left, I believe it was Saturday or Sunday morning. Mind you, there’s dozens of HS coaches walking by, we’re just posted up in the hallway.

Anyway, the Syracuse guys are already pissed that Clawson from WF is the keynote speaker (because of his CNY ties). It was right before or right after National Signing Day, I can’t remember for sure. Regardless, we had stolen a 3-tech from Wake’s back yard, Ty Cross is in my head. Can’t remember if that was his name or not.

So Daoust gets word that up to the last minute, Wake was telling Ty that Tim had accepted another job, the staff was on its way out the door, etc. Really hard negative recruiting.

Right after Daoust finds that out, (he had gotten a call from Ty) we’re in the hallway and the Wake staff rolls out of a conference room they had just done a clinic in. Picture a group of high schoolers jawing at each other and squaring up in the hallway - now picture that with 6-8 grown @ $ $ men.
Timmy D was calling them out and they essentially tucked their tails and scooted out nearest exit left.

It’s one of those things that you can’t believe it’s happening as it’s happening.

Those staffs were not fond of each other.

I absolutely love coach Doust. He was super nice to me when I was coaching. Bring us on field and introduce us to the guys and would tell me some funny stories. Really respected him and as a dline coach.

 

[shu 49]

Can TOTALLY see Tim doing that.

I totally agree

 

[nzm136]

Worst commercial presently on the airwaves right now, IMHO.

Hold my beer.


Choose any variant of that commercial that you want. Countless dealers run the same ad.

 

[TheCusian]

If the thing he based his reasoning is bunk, his opinion is bunk. It doesn’t matter if he’s a coach, dome janitor, or Clawson (listed in order).

 

[SWC75]

I am not siding and have not anywhere in this string sided with this coach's opinion.

And, this is not an "inexperienced" team. Only about 25% of the two deep is a Fr, R-Fr or So.

Then the leading premise of his position is false.