OT...Cleveland '95...A Football Life

[Opus]

Those Pruitt tear aways were awesome...he seemed to go through a bunch every game. Loved Clay Matthews too. What a linebacking crew they had with Matthews, Chip Banks and the Johnson's, Mike & Eddie, not to mention one, if not the best secondaries in the NFL, Dixon, Minnefield, Don Rodgers. The Rodgers tradegy was a stunner, I still remember it like it was yesterday...happened a week or so after the Len Bias tradegy...both OD'ing on Coke.

Great defense indeed! I remember Dixon and Minnefield with the orange shoes. (I think they were fined for wearing them?) Remember Rodgers as well, what could have been. Oh and I do remember Phipps to Pitts! (I recall an announcer talking about having to say that)

 

[SWC75]

The fact is, Modell's Browns usually had good teams even if they never won another title after '64. What was missing was a kick-ass defense, which most championship teams have. Otto Graham was great but the Browns gave up the fewest points in the league 9 times in the 10 years Otto played in the title game. After that it was the "rubber band" defense, except for that one time against the Colts. Belichek was just turning that around. It could have been a second great era for the Browns with Patriots-level success under Belichek. Wouldn't the Browns fans have loved to beat the Giants 34-7 in Super Bowl 35?

I recall reading at the time of the move that each team's share of the TV contract was more than the salary cap so no team would ever have to move. And the Browns led the league in attendance every year so they must have been making more money than anyone else.

 

[orangecuse]

The fact is, Modell's Browns usually had good teams even if they never won another title after '64. What was missing was a kick-ass defense, which most championship teams have. Otto Graham was great but the Browns gave up the fewest points in the league 9 times in the 10 years Otto played in the title game. After that it was the "rubber band" defense, except for that one time against the Colts. Belichek was just turning that around. It could have been a second great era for the Browns with Patriots-level success under Belichek. Wouldn't the Browns fans have loved to beat the Giants 34-7 in Super Bowl 35?

I recall reading at the time of the move that each team's share of the TV contract was more than the salary cap so no team would ever have to move. And the Browns led the league in attendance every year so they must have been making more money than anyone else.

Agree about the "bend, but don't break defense." As I mentioned, as good as their linebacker core and secondary were at that particular time, they had no Mean Joe Greene type defensive lineman. Their lineman generally could not get consistent pressure on the opponent's qb's. Best DL's were probably "Turkey" Jones and Jerry Shirk. Boy, what I would give to watch big 'ol Ben get cartwheeled a la Turkey did to Terry Bradshaw.

Yep, old Cleveland Municipal would consistently pack near 80k...Modell was a very poor business man...

 

[dollarbill44]

The fact is, Modell's Browns usually had good teams even if they never won another title after '64. What was missing was a kick-ass defense, which most championship teams have. Otto Graham was great but the Browns gave up the fewest points in the league 9 times in the 10 years Otto played in the title game. After that it was the "rubber band" defense, except for that one time against the Colts. Belichek was just turning that around. It could have been a second great era for the Browns with Patriots-level success under Belichek. Wouldn't the Browns fans have loved to beat the Giants 34-7 in Super Bowl 35?

I recall reading at the time of the move that each team's share of the TV contract was more than the salary cap so no team would ever have to move. And the Browns led the league in attendance every year so they must have been making more money than anyone else.

Schottenheimer's defenses in the mid-late '80s were very stingy. But you're right, other than that short stretch, they haven't had much. I like the current defense and think they are only a player or two away from being very, very good. The line is underrated and the secondary should be solid once Haden is back.

 

[SU2NASA]

The Tribe won the Pennant in '95 & '97.

Did they throw them a parade for losing in the World Series?

 

[BuffOrange]

Yeah, no way to be certain, however, that is not the sentiment shared by various people on Belichick's staff, including Newsome, Saban and others of significant credibility. The Browns the year before ('94) went 11-5 and beat Parcell's Patriots in the playoffs (Browns haven't won a playoff game since). Belichick said significant progress had been made and that he himself believed they had -turned the corner- and that good days lied ahead again for the storied franchise. Ozzie truly believe it, quote, "No doubt we would've won a Super Bowl."

I Loved how you could hear Belichick's total distaste for Modell and what he did to his players, staff and fans. "Left us on an island," "The owner was nowhere to be found...he was in Baltimore."

And, Andre -Bad Moon a Rison- should've never been signed, especially not for that amount. Just another very poor business decision by Modell...

I mean, what do you expect those guys to say - "we would've gone 6-10 for another couple years & been fired"?
The Ravens missed the playoffs their first four years in Baltimore so it's not like they proved the '95 disappointment was a fluke.

 

[orangecuse]

I mean, what do you expect those guys to say - "we would've gone 6-10 for another couple years & been fired"?
The Ravens missed the playoffs their first four years in Baltimore so it's not like they proved the '95 disappointment was a fluke.

You just have no clue what you're talking about. The Browns were 11-5 the season before and beat the Parcell coached Patriots in a playoff game. The leader and captain, Belichick, was fired after the '95 season and never coached the Ravens, the personnel was not close to being the same. But hey, we all know Belichick, especially with his unimpressive tract record, indeed is a fluke. :crazy:

 

[ssbriefcase]

Ah, the drive, and Jeremiah Castille. Some of my fondest memories and cemented my love for my Broncos!

 

[BuffOrange]

You just have no clue what you're talking about. The Browns were 11-5 the season before and beat the Parcell coached Patriots in a playoff game. The leader and captain, Belichick, was fired after the '95 season and never coached the Ravens, the personnel was not close to being the same. But hey, we all know Belichick, especially with his unimpressive tract record, indeed is a fluke. :crazy:

Wow. Sorry Mrs. Belichick. No earthly idea how I ever implied "he never made the playoffs in Cleveland and coached the Ravens". All I was saying was that when you look at the Browns/Ravens from 91-98, '94 sure looks like more of an outlier than '95 (and the '96 team did have a lot of the same personnel as 95, Lol @ "not close to the same").
Thanks for the history lesson though. Maybe next you can enlighten us on how Don Shula never actually coached the Indianapolis Colts, contrary to popular belief.
BB's record with that NE QB formally coached by Parcells was 5-13 btw.

 

[orangecuse]

Wow. Sorry Mrs. Belichick. No earthly idea how I ever implied "he never made the playoffs in Cleveland and coached the Ravens". All I was saying was that when you look at the Browns/Ravens from 91-98, '94 sure looks like more of an outlier than '95 (and the '96 team did have a lot of the same personnel as 95, Lol @ "not close to the same").
Thanks for the history lesson though. Maybe next you can enlighten us on how Don Shula never actually coached the Indianapolis Colts, contrary to popular belief.
BB's record with that NE QB formally coached by Parcells was 5-13 btw.

I mean, what do you expect those guys to say - "we would've gone 6-10 for another couple years & been fired"?
The Ravens missed the playoffs their first four years in Baltimore so it's not like they proved the '95 disappointment was a fluke.

You know darn well what the intent of your above post was...it speaks for itself, you can retort and spin it now how you wish. Additionally, it was a conversation amongst a couple of Browns fans, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond several days later on basically a dead thread, other than to just throw-up.

Belichick and company pretty much said in all their years, nothing has ever come close to that chaos and trying to get a team ready and focused to play. As much as you can try to block out the outside elements, it was as impossible as it could be. I doubt any coach, throughout history, could have fared any better. So, the '95 6-10 record really has the largest asterik next to it you can imagine.

Your subsequent response is interesting. A backhand acknowledgment of the playoff feat in '94, but basically refering to it as an anomaly when considering the 91-98 years. When Belichick came to the Browns, they were in complete rebuilding. So, duh, it took some time. The comprehensive improvements being made, had the Browns in the aforementioned '94 playoffs. Though some of the personnel transferred to Baltimore, Belichick didn't, as again, he was fired. Call me crazy, but usually the head coach is the most important piece of the puzzle. Nice try though, I guess encompassing the Raven's 96-98 years under that same umbrella, is convenient for the subsequent argument you're attempting to make.

Oh, by the way. Shula's from Cleveland...went to school with my aunt, last name Shuba, back in the day. That's about all the enlightenment I'll offer...

 

[BuffOrange]

You know darn well what the intent of your above post was...it speaks for itself

Umm yah. "We would've gone 6-10 for another couple yrs" makes it pretty clear.

Though some of the personnel transferred to Baltimore, Belichick didn't, as again, he was fired. Call me crazy, but usually the head coach is the most important piece of the puzzle. Nice try though, I guess encompassing the Raven's 96-98 years under that same umbrella, is convenient for the subsequent argument you're attempting to make.

Yah you're crazy - the QB is way more important. At least now you're acknowledging in a backhanded sort of way, that the personnel was similar after saying "it wasn't close" a day earlier...and I'm the spin-doctor.

You know darn well what the intent of your above post was...it speaks for itself, you can retort and spin it now how you wish. Additionally, it was a conversation amongst a couple of Browns fans, so I'm not sure why you felt the need to respond several days later on basically a dead thread, other than to just throw-up.

I'm an nfl junkie, was interested in and watched the show. Sorry for not meeting the deadline or being in your exclusive club.

 

[orangecuse]

Umm...you conveniently left out the next sentence about Baltimore's first four years...and because of this the '94 season was not disproven that it was a fluke. Furthermore, your total disregard of such chaos in '95 that no coach in history would've likely fared any better.

Additionally, your initial remarks had nothing to do with player personnel, but staffing and how the Browns/Raven's staff was pretty much all in tact, conveniently again, leaving out the most important staff personnel...the head coach. Yes, I was exaggerating in my "not even close" comment, however, it was to make the point (based on what your main argument was) that the head coach was missing.

I'm not sure how the QB causally relates to a particular conversation about staff personnel...of course, the QB is the most important of players, hence, the term franchise qb, etc.

No exclusive club, I just found your response to be a bit conflicting due to the nature/tone of the particular conversation prior to your merge...a passive-aggressive type I bet?

 

[BuffOrange]

No exclusive club, I just found your response to be a bit conflicting due to the nature/tone of the particular converation prior to your merge...a passive-aggressive type I bet?

My original response was questioning whether quoting obviously partisan members of the staff really means much w/ respect to their likelyhood of winning a championship. I'm sure if you asked Jim Fassel he would say he would've won a ring w/ the Giants had he kept the job. The history books are also littered with dozens of random 11-5 teams who never reached the top of the mountain.

I don't really know how that "tone" was so mean-spirited and offensive. You're welcome to disagree and that's fine.
I respect Cleveland fans a lot and as a Bills fan am proud of the fact that Buffalo was one of only two franchises to vote against the move. I mention this only because you're using emotion to erroneously equate a football opinion with some heartless fool who couldn't care less about your team - that's pretty obvious with the "you have no clue" and all this painful minutia/semantics you keep arguing in an attempt to save face. Grow some thicker skin dude.

 

[orangecuse]

My original response was questioning whether quoting obviously partisan members of the staff really means much w/ respect to their likelyhood of winning a championship. I'm sure if you asked Jim Fassel he would say he would've won a ring w/ the Giants had he kept the job. The history books are also littered with dozens of random 11-5 teams who never reached the top of the mountain.

I don't really know how that "tone" was so mean-spirited and offensive. You're welcome to disagree and that's fine.
I respect Cleveland fans a lot and as a Bills fan am proud of the fact that Buffalo was one of only two franchises to vote against the move. I mention this only because you're using emotion to erroneously equate a football opinion with some heartless fool who couldn't care less about your team - that's pretty obvious with the "you have no clue" and all this painful minutia/semantics you keep arguing in an attempt to save face. Grow some thicker skin dude.

As suggested, your original response speaks for itself...no matter how much filler your subsequent responses attempt to portray.

Jim Fassel, really? This is yet another poor attempt in your unsuccessful persuasion. Belichick is arguably one of the best coaches of all time, so not just some also ran whose particular team littered the history books at 11-5. His aforementioned staff, many whom are quite successful in the game today, speaks volumes as well, not to mention how they all hold Belichick in very high regard.

So, relative to your original post, objectively, the only fluke was it. That's my thin skin, emotional opinion...and I'm sticking to it.

 

[BuffOrange]

Sigh, that's honestly my fault for not using Jimmy Johnson in Miami or Dick Vermeil in KC as the example instead.

No surprise that you'd get sidetracked and miss the point entirely with more minutia. I think the moneyline on that was -900 in Vegas.