OT: Derek Jeter or Peyton Manning

[OttoinGrotto]

Jeter has been a slightly above avg SS for a winning team. if he had played with the Mets would we even be having this discussion?

You have a funny definition of "slightly above avg SS."

 

[KaiserUEO]

Jeter. .312 career hitter. Mr clutch in playoffs. 4-5 gold gloves. Great great leader. 5 Rings. 3,000 hits.

First ballot HOFer.

amazing stats and a 1st balloter for sure.

but id put him 3rd on the list of great Yankee leaders behind Gehrig and Munson.

and if someone says hes better than those 2, fine its another great debate...but hes still not even the best Captain in NY sports history.

thats Messier, and second place is probably Harry Carson, with apologies to Willis Reed.

 

[dasher]

Manning and quite frankly it's not close. Manning might be the best qb of all time. That is the best player at the toughest position. Jeter has had a terrific career. But no one puts him in the top 10 players ever in baseball or anywhere close. Now, if the question was, whose life I would rather have had...the woman, the titles, Jeter all the way.

 

[raf4488]

I don't think "who is the best player" and "who has had the most/greatest accomplishments" are the same question. Like dasher said, Manning is probably a top 10 all time football player. Jeter is excellent, but I'm not sure he's a top 50 all time baseball player. This seems like an apples-to-oranges comparison, but I'd have to say Manning is more highly rated when you place him among every NFL player ever than Jeter is when you place him among all MLB players. Jeter has been rarely considered the best player in his sport, while Manning has been consistently.

 

[Alsacs]

Peyton Manning's career playoff record is 11-12. He is under .500 in the most important games even though he has played every year of NFL career with HOF/all Pro caliber WRs Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Demarius Thomas, Wes Welker and played football in an ERA where you can't sneeze on a QB without unnecessary roughness(see Ahmad Brooks penalty last year on Drew Brees) means he is the greatest of all-time? Football is a team sport like baseball Manning has won 1 of 3 NFL Championshop games. The first loss he had a crushing pick-6 clinch the loss and the second loss he and his world setting offense were shown for the overrated frauds they were in the Super Bowl.

You can't convince me Manning is better than Tom Brady 3 SB titles 18-8 record in the playoffs and people want to him above John Elway 2SB titles, 14-7 in the playoffs, Joe Montana 4 SB titles, 16-7 in the playoffs.

Jeter is the bigger legend IMO. It doesn't matter he was never the best he has unbelievable stats as he is the all-time hits leader for NYY and rings matter more for legacy than just having the stats. Jeter has more of both than Manning.

 

[jimsonjunction]

regardless if numbers. There was never a time that Jeter was considered even the best at his position for a single year.. Phil rizzuto won a ton of rings and was below avg but being a yankee he gets looked at differently.

Best Qb to me us still Unitas. Numbers dont tell everything but if Jeter had played on a bad team he wouldn't have lasted more than 5-7 years.

:crazy:

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Mauer or Morneau forget which one of them stole one MVP from Jeter) 5 WS titles.

Morneau stole it in 2006. Jeter had more hits, doubles, triples, stolen bases, and walks than Morneau. Jeter had a higher average and on base percentage.

1999 was Jeter's best year statistically, he finished 6th surrounded by PED users. Ivan Rodriguez won the MVP, Pedro Martinez came in second (he denies using steroids and hasn't been linked, yet), Roberto Alomar, Manny Ramirez, and Rafael Palmeiro finished ahead of Jeter.

 

[Chip]

Jeter. I know, I know, Mariah Carey, who is a complete skank (we're all allowed 1...or dozens). But other than her, the resume doesn't even compare.

 

[Alsacs]

Morneau stole it in 2006. Jeter had more hits, doubles, triples, stolen bases, and walks than Morneau. Jeter had a higher average and on base percentage.

1999 was Jeter's best year statistically, he finished 6th surrounded by PED users. Ivan Rodriguez won the MVP, Pedro Martinez came in second (he denies using steroids and hasn't been linked, yet), Roberto Alomar, Manny Ramirez, and Rafael Palmeiro finished ahead of Jeter.

Pudge stole Pedro Martinez's MVP in 1999. Pedro did not use steroids IMO. He was frail never got additional MPG or weight. Pedro's prime was from 1998 till 2001. Pedro's numbers from 2002 onward declined as his MPG on fastball declined steadily and hurt the effectiveness of changeup as his aged. I don't think even Yankee fans would question Pedro like I wouldn't question Jeter. His 1999 season in the height of the steroid ERA was amazing. Joel Sherman and some Twins writer left Pedro OFF THEIR BALLOTS. Pedro I believe had the most 1st place votes.

In 2011, Justin Verlander won the AL MVP over Jacoby Ellsbury with the same logic that in 1999 screwed Pedro Martinez.

That 2006 MVP was the one I was saying was stolen from Jeter.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Pudge stole Pedro Martinez's MVP in 1999. Pedro did not use steroids IMO. He was frail never got additional MPG or weight. Pedro's prime was from 1998 till 2001. Pedro's numbers from 2002 onward declined as his MPG on fastball declined steadily and hurt the effectiveness of changeup as his aged. I don't think even Yankee fans would question Pedro like I wouldn't question Jeter. His 1999 season in the height of the steroid ERA was amazing. Joel Sherman and some Twins writer left Pedro OFF THEIR BALLOTS. Pedro I believe had the most 1st place votes.

In 2011, Justin Verlander won the AL MVP over Jacoby Ellsbury with the same logic that in 1999 screwed Pedro Martinez.

That 2006 MVP was the one I was saying was stolen from Jeter.

i dont believe pitchers should win the MVP and i certainly dont believe we have the time to engage in that discussion here.

i know ellsbury finished 2nd, so i guess hes the de facto winner. personally, i think Miggy should be coming off his 3rd straight MVP.

as for Ellsbury, hes a much better player than i ever gave him credit for. i still think he plays a step or 2 too shallow, either that or hes getting just a slight bad break on the ball. hopefully, as he gets used to the Stadium, that changes.

 

[bnoro]

Peyton Manning's career playoff record is 11-12. He is under .500 in the most important games even though he has played every year of NFL career with HOF/all Pro caliber WRs Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, Demarius Thomas, Wes Welker and played football in an ERA where you can't sneeze on a QB without unnecessary roughness(see Ahmad Brooks penalty last year on Drew Brees) means he is the greatest of all-time? Football is a team sport like baseball Manning has won 1 of 3 NFL Championshop games. The first loss he had a crushing pick-6 clinch the loss and the second loss he and his world setting offense were shown for the overrated frauds they were in the Super Bowl.

You can't convince me Manning is better than Tom Brady 3 SB titles 18-8 record in the playoffs and people want to him above John Elway 2SB titles, 14-7 in the playoffs, Joe Montana 4 SB titles, 16-7 in the playoffs.

Jeter is the bigger legend IMO. It doesn't matter he was never the best he has unbelievable stats as he is the all-time hits leader for NYY and rings matter more for legacy than just having the stats. Jeter has more of both than Manning.

Bingo. Manning is Charmin soft, chokes in big games and cold weather games. His only Super Bowl win was against a piss poor Bears team that had no business being there. Manning's the best when it doesn't count.

 

[raf4488]

We put too much emphasis on team accomplishments when assessing individual performances in team sports. It's not exactly a surprise that someone who has played their entire career for the most expensive team in baseball has a lot of titles. Is Peyton a lesser player because Sean Payton's post-halftime onside kick was successful?

 

[bnoro]

Is Peyton a lesser player because Sean Payton's post-halftime onside kick was successful?

Yes.

 

[Scooch]

Rings?

Look, I'm a Sox and Pats fan so I sports-hate them both. But take Jeter off the '96-'00 Yanks and put a slightly-above-replacement level SS in his place and I think it's tough to make the case that the Yanks don't win those 4 titles anyway.

Manning, for all his post-season chokeyness, was the guy behind the Colts, and now Broncos, success.

I don't think one baseball player, granted an all-time great and sure-fire HOFer, compares to an NFL QB.

Manning.

 

[KaiserUEO]

Rings?

Look, I'm a Sox and Pats fan so I sports-hate them both. But take Jeter off the '96-'00 Yanks and put a slightly-above-replacement level SS in his place and I think it's tough to make the case that the Yanks don't win those 4 titles anyway.

Manning, for all his post-season chokeyness, was the guy behind the Colts, and now Broncos, success.

I don't think one baseball player, granted an all-time great and sure-fire HOFer, compares to an NFL QB.

Manning.

i see what you did there, you G-D redsux bastid.

u said a shortstop with more range catches gonzalez' flair in 01, and the Yankees wouldve had 4 in a row and championships in 5 out of 6 years.

HOW DARE YOU INSULT JETER!!!!

 

[Scooch]

i see what you did there, you G-D redsux bastid.

u said a shortstop with more range catches gonzalez' flair in 01, and the Yankees wouldve had 4 in a row and championships in 5 out of 6 years.

HOW DARE YOU INSULT JETER!!!!

What I really meant is that Omar Vizquel probably cries himself to sleep at night because he wasn't traded to the Yankees in 1996. If he was now he would be wearing 5 rings and adorned with the title of "Captain Intangibles".