OT: is Manu Ginobili a Hall of Famer?

[Eric15]

He just announced his retirement. Unlike the Melo Hall of Fame debate, I feel like you can make very reasonable arguments yes or no for Ginobili.

What do people think?

 

[OrangeDW]

If it was the NBA hall of fame...no. Even though he was an excellent player for a perennial power. 2 time all star and 6th man award isn’t enough.

Since it’s the basketball hall of fame, yes. He was a multitime MVP in Europe, led his team to a Gold medal in the Olympics, etc.

 

[Newhouser]

100% yes.

 

[RF2044]

I believe so -- especially if you factor in his Olympic accomplishments.

 

[cuse10]

It is the Basketball Hall of Fame. Yes, because of international accolades.

If there were an NBA Hall of Fame, maybe.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Yes. Easily. They let Dino Radja in this past year who spent 70% of his career in Europe.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

If it was the NBA hall of fame...no. Even though he was an excellent player for a perennial power. 2 time all star and 6th man award isn’t enough.

Since it’s the basketball hall of fame, yes. He was a multitime MVP in Europe, led his team to a Gold medal in the Olympics, etc.

Yup. That's the distinction to make.

 

[moqui]

If it was the NBA hall of fame...no. Even though he was an excellent player for a perennial power. 2 time all star and 6th man award isn’t enough.

Since it’s the basketball hall of fame, yes. He was a multitime MVP in Europe, led his team to a Gold medal in the Olympics, etc.

i'm not so sure about that.

his career per is 20.22, higher than hall of famers steve nash & grant hill, to name two

he's 28th all time in win shares per 48. more than hall of fame guards like reggie miller & walt frazier, to name 2 more.

in playoff win shares per 48, he's ahead of future hall of famers kobe bryant and dwayne wade.

i think he'd be better than a 50/50 shot just on his nba career alone. leading argentina to an olympic gold medal makes it a slam dunk

 

[Knicks411]

I would probably put him in both. But I'm biased, I love Manu.

For some reason a comparison that came to mind is Sam Jones. I have no idea why. I guess 2 guard on a team that won a lot of titles?

 

[Zelda Zonk]

He's not not deserving of a hall of fame induction. That much is for certain.

 

[Eric15]

It looks like a pretty unanimous vote for "in."

Basketball-reference.com's algorithm gives him a 20% chance of getting in, but I assume that is only based on his NBA credentials. Active players in bold -- players in the HOF have an asterisk.

 

[wallacecuse]

i'm not so sure about that.

i think he'd be better than a 50/50 shot just on his nba career alone. leading argentina to an olympic gold medal makes it a slam dunk

It has been 14 years since Argentina won that gold. It came only 12 years after the original Dream Team. Remarkable progress in the span of 3 Olympics.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

i'm not so sure about that.

his career per is 20.22, higher than hall of famers steve nash & grant hill, to name two

he's 28th all time in win shares per 48. more than hall of fame guards like reggie miller & walt frazier, to name 2 more.

in playoff win shares per 48, he's ahead of future hall of famers kobe bryant and dwayne wade.

i think he'd be better than a 50/50 shot just on his nba career alone. leading argentina to an olympic gold medal makes it a slam dunk

Manu's problem from an NBA perspective is that he was so successful within his team's needs and winning, you know, the stuff that matters, that he didn't really accumulate much in the way of individual honors relative to other players.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

i'm not so sure about that.

his career per is 20.22, higher than hall of famers steve nash & grant hill, to name two

he's 28th all time in win shares per 48. more than hall of fame guards like reggie miller & walt frazier, to name 2 more.

in playoff win shares per 48, he's ahead of future hall of famers kobe bryant and dwayne wade.

i think he'd be better than a 50/50 shot just on his nba career alone. leading argentina to an olympic gold medal makes it a slam dunk

After reading this article do you really think the HOF voters understand win shares and per. Highly doubtful!!! I think they might give it the eye test and that's it.
Want to know who votes for Basketball Hall of Fame? None of your business

 

[stuckinbig11]

yep

 

[Briancuse]

Its close but I have him in.

 

[chugg21]

Yes

 

[moqui]

Manu's problem from an NBA perspective is that he was so successful within his team's needs and winning, you know, the stuff that matters, that he didn't really accumulate much in the way of individual honors relative to other players.

kinda like hall of famer jamaal wilkes. manu easily passes the wilkes litmus test, imo

 

[moqui]

After reading this article do you really think the HOF voters understand win shares and per. Highly doubtful!!! I think they might give it the eye test and that's it.
Want to know who votes for Basketball Hall of Fame? None of your business

fair enough

 

[RandygoCuse]

If it was the NBA hall of fame...no. Even though he was an excellent player for a perennial power. 2 time all star and 6th man award isn’t enough.

Since it’s the basketball hall of fame, yes. He was a multitime MVP in Europe, led his team to a Gold medal in the Olympics, etc.

Manu is just the type of player to reignite the debate about whether the NBA should have it's own Hall of Fame.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Manu’s averages are lower because Pop always babied his minutes in the regular season. Hard to score 20 plus a game playing 25 minutes a night for his career.

 

[OrangeDW]

Manu’s averages are lower because Pop always babied his minutes in the regular season. Hard to score 20 plus a game playing 25 minutes a night for his career.

Agreed. If he didn’t have all those international accomplishments and was just getting judged on his NBA accomplishments, I would be very interested to see how the voters looked at him.

On a related note, is Tony Parker a hall of famer? I would vote him in if I had a vote. For some reason he always seemed to get talked about far less than the other elite PG’s, but he was just as good as any of them at any given time.

The Spurs are going to look so different.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Agreed. If he didn’t have all those international accomplishments and was just getting judged on his NBA accomplishments, I would be very interested to see how the voters looked at him.

On a related note, is Tony Parker a hall of famer? I would vote him in if I had a vote. For some reason he always seemed to get talked about far less than the other elite PG’s, but he was just as good as any of them at any given time.

The Spurs are going to look so different.

Yes. Mo Cheeks just got in. Parker had better numbers. Parker and Jason Kidd have similar similarity scores on basketball reference.

 

[Eric15]

Yes. Mo Cheeks just got in. Parker had better numbers. Parker and Jason Kidd have similar similarity scores on basketball reference.

Interesting how Kidd is a rather ordinary 148th all-time in PER, but a super-elite 10th all time in Value Over Replacement Player.

 

[OrangeDW]

Interesting how Kidd is a rather ordinary 148th all-time in PER, but a super-elite 10th all time in Value Over Replacement Player.

Sometimes I don’t know what to make of any of those numbers.

My eye test tells me that at his peak in New Jersey, Kidd was an absolute force of nature on both ends of the court and if I was a basketball player, possibly the number 1 PG I’d want to play alongside of. It’s him or Magic.

And I think his role in the Dallas championship was always a little underrated due to his modest numbers, Dirk playing out of his mind, and guys like Jason Terry hitting so many big 3’s. But with Kidd, that ball was always where it was supposed to be. He was the quarterback of that offense.