OT: is Manu Ginobili a Hall of Famer?

[Cusefan0307]

Interesting how Kidd is a rather ordinary 148th all-time in PER, but a super-elite 10th all time in Value Over Replacement Player.

I'm not in love with PER. It's heavily weighted toward high usage scoring. It's why Russell Westbrook does so well in PER.

 

[Knicks411]

Agreed. If he didn’t have all those international accomplishments and was just getting judged on his NBA accomplishments, I would be very interested to see how the voters looked at him.

On a related note, is Tony Parker a hall of famer? I would vote him in if I had a vote. For some reason he always seemed to get talked about far less than the other elite PG’s, but he was just as good as any of them at any given time.

The Spurs are going to look so different.

I usually thought he was behind the elite tier. But I think hes a HOF

 

[CuseFaninVT]

He's in.

 

[bozophobe]

I believe so -- especially if you factor in his Olympic accomplishments.

You know, I've been wondering how much that should matter - and many will strongly argue that it shouldn't - but this game is getting more global. My wondering recently regarded Carmelo Anthony (and many missed the last Olympic games where he'd absolutely take over for 10 minutes, then sit down and let someone else do it - a lesson for those NBA teams interested in him? Maybe that's a different discussion).

 

[RF2044]

You know, I've been wondering how much that should matter - and many will strongly argue that it shouldn't - but this game is getting more global. My wondering recently regarded Carmelo Anthony (and many missed the last Olympic games where he'd absolutely take over for 10 minutes, then sit down and let someone else do it - a lesson for those NBA teams interested in him? Maybe that's a different discussion).

Why wouldn't it matter? The Basketball Hall of Fame has contributors who've never played, referees, women's players, international players who never set foot on an NBA court. I don't see how you can leave that out of consideration.

 

[bozophobe]

Why wouldn't it matter? The Basketball Hall of Fame has contributors who've never played, referees, women's players, international players who never set foot on an NBA court. I don't see how you can leave that out of consideration.

I think you didn't get me - I'll take the responsibility for not articulating that better. I say it should matter. Hell, Im thinking Pete Rose started getting nervous when he found out that Ichiro amassed tons of hits in Japan prior to racking up 3,000 in the States.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

On a related note, is Tony Parker a hall of famer?

In there like swimwear.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Manu's problem from an NBA perspective is that he was so successful within his team's needs and winning, you know, the stuff that matters, that he didn't really accumulate much in the way of individual honors relative to other players.

The guy seemingly made EVERY big shot he took

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I'll go with no but its close. Not that hard to get in in hoops though but he'd get in for the titles and Gold Medal more than individual stats or accomplishments. You kind of have to be the best player on your team for a stretch to be a HOFer in my book.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

The guy seemingly made EVERY big shot he took

Should Robert Horry be in as well?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Should Robert Horry be in as well?

I think so.

I also think Steve Tasker should be in the football HOF though.

 

[OrangeDW]

Should Robert Horry be in as well?

No. But while Horry was a nice player, he wasn’t as good as Manu. Manu was an all star twice, and his Popovich special minutes probably held him back from having the numbers to make a few more.

Horry was never close to an all star level guy. Just a great role player.

Similar in that he also didn’t seem to care about any personal glory, he just did what the team needed him to do to win.

 

[RF2044]

I think you didn't get me - I'll take the responsibility for not articulating that better. I say it should matter. Hell, Im thinking Pete Rose started getting nervous when he found out that Ichiro amassed tons of hits in Japan prior to racking up 3,000 in the States.

No worries -- I misinterpreted the point you were making.

LGO!!!

 

[Eric15]

You kind of have to be the best player on your team for a stretch to be a HOFer in my book.

I will inform Bob Cousy, Kevin McHale, Scottie Pippen and James Worthy, etc. of this unfortunate news.

 

[FRANKIEFAN]

I will inform Bob Cousy, Kevin McHale, Scottie Pippen and James Worthy, etc. of this unfortunate news.

Well you are cherry picking but I'll play along lets see how those guys were without the stars.

Did Scottie join MJ playing baseball? No he was maybe the best player in the NBA when that happened.

McHale was older than Bird (I think) and likely as banged up at the end hes still a very good player that last year post Larry. On the same token a very old Worthy could make a claim for best player on the early 90s Lakers after Magic's announcement.

Cousy was older than Russell and was a star before Bill joined the C's does Bill get past Wilt every year without him?

I mean I'm not going to use last year when he didn't have Kahwi against him I said its close hes better than a lot of guys who are in Springfield I just don't think a guy who only makes 2 all star games is a HOFer. Basketball is different though and hard to call I don't have strong feelings like I do in other sports.

 

[Knicks411]

Manu is def not as good a Cousy, Mchale, or Pippen. (Worthy though...)

But's not the standard for being a HOF. If it was, it'd be a lot smaller.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

Should Robert Horry be in as well?

Manu was better. Very creative. Good overall player. Some guys are just HOF guys. I think he is. Sorry no. Billups, no. ("Big shot" guys.)

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I will inform Bob Cousy, Kevin McHale, Scottie Pippen and James Worthy, etc. of this unfortunate news.

And Kareem or Magic

 

[NineOneSeven]

Yes, easily. The fact NBA legends are casually saying it in shoutouts to manu is all you need to know.

 

[MikeSU02]

He just announced his retirement. Unlike the Melo Hall of Fame debate, I feel like you can make very reasonable arguments yes or no for Ginobili.

What do people think?

Argument isn’t whether he’s in or not, it’s whether he’s first-ballot, which isn’t even a tough argument. Dude getting in is a lock. First-ballot is highly, highly likely as well.

 

[CuseFaninVT]

Well you are cherry picking but I'll play along lets see how those guys were without the stars.

Did Scottie join MJ playing baseball? No he was maybe the best player in the NBA when that happened.

McHale was older than Bird (I think) and likely as banged up at the end hes still a very good player that last year post Larry. On the same token a very old Worthy could make a claim for best player on the early 90s Lakers after Magic's announcement.

Cousy was older than Russell and was a star before Bill joined the C's does Bill get past Wilt every year without him?

I mean I'm not going to use last year when he didn't have Kahwi against him I said its close hes better than a lot of guys who are in Springfield I just don't think a guy who only makes 2 all star games is a HOFer. Basketball is different though and hard to call I don't have strong feelings like I do in other sports.

Bird is older.

 

[moqui]

 

[RF2044]

Amazing - I'm going to miss Pop when he hangs 'em up.

 

[MadNY3]

He just announced his retirement. Unlike the Melo Hall of Fame debate, I feel like you can make very reasonable arguments yes or no for Ginobili.

What do people think?

First ballot HoF.

 

[Tom K.]

No. But while Horry was a nice player, he wasn’t as good as Manu. Manu was an all star twice, and his Popovich special minutes probably held him back from having the numbers to make a few more.

This right here. He's a HoFer. Per 36 career: 19, 5, 5, 2 WITH 20 PPG 6 straight (nearly 8) years.
Horry's individual stats are downright unimpressive. I also hate him for taking the '01-'02 title from Sacramento.