OT: Johnny Football

[Libero2]

Where is the Ryan Leaf comparison coming from? Do you really think NFL teams say 'Boys will be boys' and don't think about what could possibly be a wasted high pick in the draft? He may be fine, but all this did is raise all sorts of red flags - red flags that NFL teams do not like. All I said was that teams are frightened of wasting a pick on another Ryan Leaf. And he had red flags all over him. That's where the Ryan Leaf comparison is coming from.

There is a difference in saying Johnny Manziel is the next Ryan Leaf, and that he has character concerns. My point is Manziel is currently not the freaking looney toon that Leaf was upon entering the NFL.

And if you think his two transgressions put "red flags all over him" as you say, I would wonder what you would say about Janoris Jenkins, Alec Ogletree, Alfonso Dennard, Aaron Hernandez, Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens, Warren Sapp, Dan Marino and the million other guys who were actually arrested in college for something significant (like drug possession, DUI, assault, weapons charges and so on and so forth).

They all got drafted, some drafted very high. Believe it or not when you are an incredibly talented athlete a lot of college transgressions get chalked up to boys will be boys, in the hopes that they can get you to play like an elite athlete.

 

[Libero2]

We'll know a lot about his draft stock pretty early in the season. A&M plays Alabama September 14th and if he follows up with a performance similar to last year's, NFL GMs and the media will quickly forget about his hangover at the Manning camp.

I agree with the last statement. How much the NfL will care, depends on who is telling the truth. Manziel says he was worn out after numerous appearances, and finally had his body give out on him. If NFL teams believe that, all will be forgiven. Regardless of the fact the media doesn't believe it and thinks he drank himself stupid enough to not be able to get up in the morning

 

[sufandu]

It's not just the partying. It's that he reportedly punched a grad assistant. It's that he was supposed to work at the Manning passing academy and he was blowing off his responsibilities, so they sent him home. When you agree to work for Archie Manning at his camp and then blow it off, it's more than immature, it's being an arrogant jerk. I'm sick of people sounding as if being 20 years old is reason enough to be a punk. It isn't. When I started my summer job at the factory where my dad worked he told me that if I did anything to make him look bad, he'd kick my butt. He didn't need to do that because I had been raised to have respect, and I knew what that meant at 18, not 20. Johnny football better recognize quickly that the entitlements he thinks he deserves because of his Heisman are going to dry up pretty quickly or he'll be sitting next to Jamarcus Russell and Vince Young wondering what happened to his career.

 

[billsin01]

It sounds like someone needs to be drafted by buffalo and enrolled in the Doug Marrone Life Skills Program TM. Then he'll be on the straight and narrow AND know which fork to use for his salad.

 

[orange79]

There is a difference in saying Johnny Manziel is the next Ryan Leaf, and that he has character concerns. My point is Manziel is currently not the freaking looney toon that Leaf was upon entering the NFL.

And if you think his two transgressions put "red flags all over him" as you say, I would wonder what you would say about Janoris Jenkins, Alec Ogletree, Alfonso Dennard, Aaron Hernandez, Chad Johnson, Terrell Owens, Warren Sapp, Dan Marino and the million other guys who were actually arrested in college for something significant (like drug possession, DUI, assault, weapons charges and so on and so forth).

They all got drafted, some drafted very high. Believe it or not when you are an incredibly talented athlete a lot of college transgressions get chalked up to boys will be boys, in the hopes that they can get you to play like an elite athlete.

Yes, they did. And, like I stated, sometimes the red flags pan out, sometimes they don't. And I didn't say he was the next Ryan Leaf. I said this raises red flags. And if you don't think this and previous transgressions don't make NFL GM's think (especially with the serious crime problem the NFL has on its hands now), then you don't know the NFL. Will someone draft him? Of course they will. And probably very high in the draft. And he could be the next Drew Brees. I don't care. All I said was, and I quote, "The problem is, everyone is scared of another Ryan Leaf. Right or wrong, I bet there are at least several teams that have crossed him off their list." What in there don't you understand? "...everyone is scared of another Ryan Leaf" is not the same thing as "saying Johnny Manziel is the next Ryan Leaf", no matter how you try to spin it. Add his arrest last year, fake ID, and the incident at St. Mannings' camp, and you've got a whole lot for GM's to worry about. Not much for you to argue about here. Whether you like it or not, Heisman trophy winners are held to a different standard. And they should be.

 

[strumpfasaurus]

I think the problem with Manziel as someone on Sportscenter said is that while he is an amazing college QB it's not like this kid has that unbelievable talent that gives him leeway. The kid is only 6 feet, is said to not have the greatest arm strength and while he is fast and elusive I can't see him being a dual threat like Vick, Wilson, Kaepernick, or Griffin is. Right now it looks like up to four quarterbacks might go ahead of him (Bridgewater, Mariotta, Georgia's QB, and Mccarron.) I think that is the main problem here, at the very least Bridgewater will be taken ahead of him and he will probably have a worst season next year than this year only because his season last year was incredible. The kid just doesn't have those traits that NFL GMs are looking to look the other way for.

 

[syr02esq]

Here is how the Manziel story will play out this upcoming season:

If the Aggies beat Bama in Kyle Field and march on to the national championship, no one is going to care one bit about Manziel's off season transgressions.

If the Aggies underperform this seasons (and expectations are sky high with many expecting the Aggies to win the BCS national championship), then all fingers will be pointed at Manziel and the coaching staff at A&M. Why couldn't they keep Manziel focused? Why didn't they discipline him? Etc.

It's an either or situation here.

 

[Libero2]

Yes, they did. And, like I stated, sometimes the red flags pan out, sometimes they don't. And I didn't say he was the next Ryan Leaf. I said this raises red flags. And if you don't think this and previous transgressions don't make NFL GM's think (especially with the serious crime problem the NFL has on its hands now), then you don't know the NFL. Will someone draft him? Of course they will. And probably very high in the draft. And he could be the next Drew Brees. I don't care. All I said was, and I quote, "The problem is, everyone is scared of another Ryan Leaf. Right or wrong, I bet there are at least several teams that have crossed him off their list." What in there don't you understand? "...everyone is scared of another Ryan Leaf" is not the same thing as "saying Johnny Manziel is the next Ryan Leaf", no matter how you try to spin it. Add his arrest last year, fake ID, and the incident at St. Mannings' camp, and you've got a whole lot for GM's to worry about. Not much for you to argue about here. Whether you like it or not, Heisman trophy winners are held to a different standard. And they should be.

Several teams have crossed him off their list. I can think of a handful of teams, Indianpolis, Washington, GB, NO, baltimore, SF and Buffalo. All because they are extremely confident they have their franchise QB under contract. No one who needs, or even might need a QB is crossing a talent like Manziel off their list, right now, for what he's got against him. The NFL is not a group of choir boys, in fact their is a large population who are terrible human beings who have done any number of terrible things in their lives.

Heisman winners are held to a higher standard? I think that's idiotic but hey that's your opinion. The guy won an award for football prowess, not being a good human being. Now if the media wants to treat him different and hold hi to some higher standard, well whatever that's their perogative.

Ijust want to know why NFL GMs should hold him to a higher standard than a non-heisman winning QB. Say teddy Bridgewater at Louisville gets into a fistfight outside a bar next week (like Manziel a couple years ago) and gets caught with a fake ID, are you saying that's less relevant than Manziel doing it because he isn't held to the same standard because he didn't win a heisman? Despite the fact Bridgewater, is at this point, the best NFL QB prospect heading into the college season?

The NFL could care less if Manziel has won a heisman. Plenty of exceptional college players win heisman and do jack diddly at the next level. All the evaluators will care about is if he can play the game at a high level, if he has the potential to become a superstar, and what is the liklihood he gets arrested and our suspended due to causing off the field trouble.

IMO, based on currently available information, Manziel doesn't seem any more of a risk than Dan Marino coming out of college to me.

 

[orange79]

Several teams have crossed him off their list. I can think of a handful of teams, Indianpolis, Washington, GB, NO, baltimore, SF and Buffalo. All because they are extremely confident they have their franchise QB under contract. No one who needs, or even might need a QB is crossing a talent like Manziel off their list, right now, for what he's got against him. The NFL is not a group of choir boys, in fact their is a large population who are terrible human beings who have done any number of terrible things in their lives.

Heisman winners are held to a higher standard? I think that's idiotic but hey that's your opinion. The guy won an award for football prowess, not being a good human being. Now if the media wants to treat him different and hold hi to some higher standard, well whatever that's their perogative.

Ijust want to know why NFL GMs should hold him to a higher standard than a non-heisman winning QB. Say teddy Bridgewater at Louisville gets into a fistfight outside a bar next week (like Manziel a couple years ago) and gets caught with a fake ID, are you saying that's less relevant than Manziel doing it because he isn't held to the same standard because he didn't win a heisman? Despite the fact Bridgewater, is at this point, the best NFL QB prospect heading into the college season?

The NFL could care less if Manziel has won a heisman. Plenty of exceptional college players win heisman and do jack diddly at the next level. All the evaluators will care about is if he can play the game at a high level, if he has the potential to become a superstar, and what is the liklihood he gets arrested and our suspended due to causing off the field trouble.

IMO, based on currently available information, Manziel doesn't seem any more of a risk than Dan Marino coming out of college to me.

I don't get the man-love for this kid. Why do you keep fervently defending him against what I believe is a perceived slight? If you don't think NFL GM's hold their QB's to higher standards, then I don't know what to tell you. They are the face of the team. I guess what I don't understand the most is why you believe I am saying things I'm not. I'm done. Have a nice day.

 

[NKR1978]

Drew Magary has an interesting take on Deadspin. I don't really like the coverage deadspin has given Manziel because they've definitely played up his social life. But the BS coming from football guys that he isn't "respecting the game" is a joke. Texas A&M students need to respect his privacy a bit and stop tweeting about every little thing he does.

deadspin.com/america-is-ruining-johnny-football-802185460

 

[Libero2]

I don't get the man-love for this kid. Why do you keep fervently defending him against what I believe is a perceived slight? If you don't think NFL GM's hold their QB's to higher standards, then I don't know what to tell you. They are the face of the team. I guess what I don't understand the most is why you believe I am saying things I'm not. I'm done. Have a nice day.

I know you said your done, but I felt you deserved an answer anyways.

Why am I defending him? Simply because everyone in the media is trying to destroy this kid for what, at its worst is a nasty hangover and a shunning of responsibility (which is fervently denied by the Manziel camp, and the Mannings believe it or not), and people are saying how this will drastically affect his ability to be drafted high, and possibly even at all, and it may even affect his ability to play football. And that's a crock.

In this thread people brought up Ryan Leaf (you dropped his name, and others started to make comparisons) and that's a complete joke and if the comparison is made here, it certainly will be made elsewhere, and it annoys me.

QBs are held to higher standards in comparison to any other position, but lets not pretend those standards are very high. Lets look at another former heisman winner, Matt Leinart. He was given years in AZ and chance after chance before wisenhunt realized if I play this kid I'll be out of a job and gave the reigns to Warner for a magical playoff run. Leinart was a primo party boy and a total disaster off the field. It didn't matter, he still got chance after chance.

What about Vince Young, he was a total hot mess, and he stuck in Tennessee despite the fact the HC didn't even want him to play.

What about Mark Sanchez? It's pretty clear he parties hard off the field, but for 3.5 years his teammates stood behind him, believing in him until the end of season disaster last year when everyone turned on him.

If the kid can play at an elite level, he will get every chance in the world to prove he can make it work, and there isn't any doubt about it, it's happened time and time again throughout NFL past.

 

[BlackKnight76]

Transgressions: being a college kid




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[Full_Rebar]

There are two reasons why Manziel is putting his NFL future at risk with repeated nonsense : 1) he isn't 6' and isn't known for being to make "NFL throws", so demonstrating leadership and not acting like a rich, spoiled brat is important and 2) the failures of Leinart/Sanchez (as well as Locker, Young and JaMarcus Russell) will make teams more hesitant to chance a 1st rd pick on him.