OT - Knicks Off- Season So Far

[newmexicuse]

I think we are finally seeing why Phil was brought in. He spent the first season tearing it down, and now he is re-building it up with a solid foundation.

First - the draft - while somewhat controversial, there really can be ZERO doubt that Porzingus has far and away the most upside of anybody who was avilable at the 4 slot. Phil is envisioning him as a Pao Gasol II with an unlimited range outside shot. If it manifests that way then Zingy would be one heck of a player. His downside seems to be a solid rotation player who can stretch the floor. The big question is how much he will be able to contribute this season and how long will his developmental process take ? Either way, he has the potential to be a great cornerstone piece at some point in time. The rest of the draft was Grant, who worst case, is an addition by subtraction pick since the Knicks unloaded Hardaway in the deal. Best case, he is the opposite of Porzingus, ie, an older player who should fit into the rotation ASAP with limited upside. The Knicks also got Hermangomez, a Spanish center, who will be stashed this year, and looks like he could be a solid backup/rotation guy down the road.

Second - free agancy - It was obvious to all who did not have their head in the sand that the Knicks would not get any of the top tier free agents, and in the end, nobody got any of those except for San Antonio getting Aldridge. That left the B level guys. As much as the media thought that it was a big loss for the Knicks not to get Monroe, I think that Lopez was really Phil's Plan A all along. Phil needed a defensive centerpiece who could board and also pick & roll on the O end. Nobody out there could do that better than Lopez. Lopez is basically replacing and upgrading from the Chandler deal, which I think was Phil's one big mistake so far (he should have gotten way more for Tyson than he did). Next, he replaces JR Smith with a guy who got his head screwed on straight and doesn't know how to untie sneaker laces in Afflalo - an old Melo pal. Then he adds a young big with upside in O'Quinn. Finally, he takes a roll of the dice on Williams, who should worst case be a solid rotation big. Phil is building the pieces witha solid foundation. The Knicks still have a few bucks available. I would love to see them re-sign Shved who showed some talent last season and they also need another body @ the five spot. Nothing wrong with bringing back Aldrich for that role. That would still leave them approx $ 3m for another signing, presumably some sort of a scorer.

All in all, I expect this team barring an injury to melo or Lopez to at least double last season's 17 wins to 34. If they can go a bit beyond that they are in playoff contention. If they achieve 40+ wins and make the playoffs, they then may well be attractive as a landing place to any type A Kahuna free agents the following year who might want to switch their zip codes.

I give Phil a solid A- so far on his off-season relative to what was the reality of what might have been expected. It is about time the Knicks are trying to go about doing it right. The way the roster looks now is realy pretty amazing considering the mess that Phil inherited and how few resources he had to work with.

 

[rrlbees]

I think we are finally seeing why Phil was brought in. He spent the first season tearing it down, and now he is re-building it up with a solid foundation. First - the draft - while somewhat controversial, there really can be ZERO doubt that Porzingus has far and away the most upside of anybody who was avilable at the 4 slot. Phil is envisioning him as a Pao Gasol II with an unlimited range outside shot. If it manifests that way then Zingy would be one heck of a player. His downside seems to be a solid rotation player who can stretch the floor. The big question is how much he will be able to contribute this season and how long will his developmental process take ? Either way, he has the potential to be a great cornerstone piece at some point in time. The rest of the draft was Grant, who worst case, is an addition by subtraction pick since the Knicks unloaded Hardaway in the deal. Best case, he is the opposite of Porzingus, ie, an older player who should fit into the rotation ASAP with limited upside. The Knicks also got Hermangomez, a Spanish center, who will be stashed this year, and looks like he could be a solid backup/rotation guy down the road. Second - free agancy - It was obvious to all who did not have their head in the sand that the Knicks would not get any of the top tier free agents, and in the end, nobody got any of those except for San Antonio getting Aldridge. That left the B level guys. As much as the media thought that it was a big loss for the Knicks not to get Monroe, I think that Lopez was really Phil's Plan A all along. Phil needed a defensive centerpiece who could board and also pick & roll on the O end. Nobody out there could do that better than Lopez. Lopez is basically replacing and upgrading from the Chandler deal, which I think was Phil's one big mistake so far (he should have gotten way more for Tyson than he did). Next, he replaces JR Smith with a guy who got his head screwed on straight and doesn't know how to untie sneaker laces in Afflalo - an old Melo pal. Then he adds a young big with upside in O'Quinn. Finally, he takes a roll of the dice on Williams, who should worst case be a solid rotation big. Phil is building the pieces witha solid foundation. The Knicks still have a few bucks available. I would love to see them re-sign Shved who showed some talent last season and they also need another body @ the five spot. Nothing wrong with bringing back Aldrich for that role. That would still leave them approx $ 3m for another signing, presumably some sort of a scorer. All in all, I expect this team barring an injury to melo or Lopez to at least double last season's 17 wins to 34. If they can go a bit beyond that they are in playoff contention. If they achieve 40+ wins and make the playoffs, they then may well be attractive as a landing place to any type A Kahuna free agents the following year who might want to switch their zip codes. I give Phil a solid A- so far on his off-season relative to what was the reality of what might have been expected. It is about time the Knicks are trying to go about doing it right. The way the roster looks now is realy pretty amazing considering the mess that Phil inherited and how few resources he had to work with.

It's not what the Knicks told Melo and not the impression the Knicks were giving people a year ago. Go back and look at some articles from a year ago or even two. They didn't get any. They drafted for the future, not today and they picked up other teams leftovers.

 

[newmexicuse]

It's not what the Knicks told Melo and not the impression the Knicks were giving people a year ago. Go back and look at some articles from a year ago or even two. They didn't get any. They drafted for the future, not today and they picked up other teams leftovers.

Doesn't matter what the thinking was a year ago. I do believe that Phil tried to upgrade the roster a year ago, but made a big mistake with the Chandler-Calderon deal. Once Phil saw what he actually had, he knew the only answer was to blow it up, which he did. Now, nobody is left from that roster who Phil either didn't obtain or as in Melo's case re-sign. Melo is a big boy, he could have gone to a contender last summer if he chose to, but (no criticism intended) he followed the money as he has always done.

This is the thinking now and I really like it !!!

 

[rrlbees]

Being a bottom dweller isn't something I relish.

 

[MikeSU02]

It's not what the Knicks told Melo and not the impression the Knicks were giving people a year ago. Go back and look at some articles from a year ago or even two. They didn't get any. They drafted for the future, not today and they picked up other teams leftovers.

Melo is a grown up with advisers and a who's who of top NBA players as very good friends.

He knows how incompetent Dolan is. He knows Phil is a first time team president and Fish is a first time coach. He knew they were going to run the triangle.

And what did anyone expect at pick #4? This isn't the 1984 draft. Kristaps was the right selection. They got a ready-made player in Grant at 19.

What did Melo expect? Here is what I read that Melo said: if it works, great, if not I'm opting out as soon as I can.

By most evaluations, Phil did the right thing and had a solid offseason. If Melo feels like he was lied to, then he should demand a trade. He should also get a better agent and advisers because none of this should have been surprising.

 

[rrlbees]

Melo is a grown up with advisers and a who's who of top NBA players as very good friends. He knows how incompetent Dolan is. He knows Phil is a first time team president and Fish is a first time coach. He knew they were going to run the triangle. And what did anyone expect at pick #4? This isn't the 1984 draft. Kristaps was the right selection. They got a ready-made player in Grant at 19. What did Melo expect? Here is what I read that Melo said: if it works, great, if not I'm opting out as soon as I can. By most evaluations, Phil did the right thing and had a solid offseason. If Melo feels like he was lied to, then he should demand a trade. He should also get a better agent and advisers because none of this should have been surprising.

Let's start with the 2nd superstar they were going to go get.


If your team sucked and continues to suck and will suck for the foreseeable future, you are doing something wrong. They got scraps. Tell me one player they got that others wish they had gotten or good be an all NBA player? They got scraps and leftovers. No different than what they've done the past several years.

 

[Melancer46]

Let's start with the 2nd superstar they were going to go get.


If your team sucked and continues to suck and will suck for the foreseeable future, you are doing something wrong. They got scraps. Tell me one player they got that others wish they had gotten or good be an all NBA player? They got scraps and leftovers. No different than what they've done the past several years.

I'm guessing you're just talking about free agency, but if not, Porzingis.

And there's more to basketball than just star players. O'Quinn was a really nice pick-up for the price; he could end up being a starter immediately with potential to develop his game more still. He's a great fit for the triangle. I'm not really big on the other signings, but at least the Knicks will have SOME pieces in place to try to attract a free agent over the next year or two with Melo, Lopez, Porzingis, and some of the others in place. My guess is that this team won't come together until Melo is gone, but I think that would be the case with or without Phil.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I think we are finally seeing why Phil was brought in. He spent the first season tearing it down, and now he is re-building it up with a solid foundation.

First - the draft - while somewhat controversial, there really can be ZERO doubt that Porzingus has far and away the most upside of anybody who was avilable at the 4 slot. Phil is envisioning him as a Pao Gasol II with an unlimited range outside shot. If it manifests that way then Zingy would be one heck of a player. His downside seems to be a solid rotation player who can stretch the floor. The big question is how much he will be able to contribute this season and how long will his developmental process take ? Either way, he has the potential to be a great cornerstone piece at some point in time. The rest of the draft was Grant, who worst case, is an addition by subtraction pick since the Knicks unloaded Hardaway in the deal. Best case, he is the opposite of Porzingus, ie, an older player who should fit into the rotation ASAP with limited upside. The Knicks also got Hermangomez, a Spanish center, who will be stashed this year, and looks like he could be a solid backup/rotation guy down the road.

Second - free agancy - It was obvious to all who did not have their head in the sand that the Knicks would not get any of the top tier free agents, and in the end, nobody got any of those except for San Antonio getting Aldridge. That left the B level guys. As much as the media thought that it was a big loss for the Knicks not to get Monroe, I think that Lopez was really Phil's Plan A all along. Phil needed a defensive centerpiece who could board and also pick & roll on the O end. Nobody out there could do that better than Lopez. Lopez is basically replacing and upgrading from the Chandler deal, which I think was Phil's one big mistake so far (he should have gotten way more for Tyson than he did). Next, he replaces JR Smith with a guy who got his head screwed on straight and doesn't know how to untie sneaker laces in Afflalo - an old Melo pal. Then he adds a young big with upside in O'Quinn. Finally, he takes a roll of the dice on Williams, who should worst case be a solid rotation big. Phil is building the pieces witha solid foundation. The Knicks still have a few bucks available. I would love to see them re-sign Shved who showed some talent last season and they also need another body @ the five spot. Nothing wrong with bringing back Aldrich for that role. That would still leave them approx $ 3m for another signing, presumably some sort of a scorer.

All in all, I expect this team barring an injury to melo or Lopez to at least double last season's 17 wins to 34. If they can go a bit beyond that they are in playoff contention. If they achieve 40+ wins and make the playoffs, they then may well be attractive as a landing place to any type A Kahuna free agents the following year who might want to switch their zip codes.

I give Phil a solid A- so far on his off-season relative to what was the reality of what might have been expected. It is about time the Knicks are trying to go about doing it right. The way the roster looks now is realy pretty amazing considering the mess that Phil inherited and how few resources he had to work with.

I think you're a mentally resilient fan that is doing their best to talk themselves in to what's happening, and I applaud you for it.

 

[newmexicuse]

I think you're a mentally resilient fan that is doing their best to talk themselves in to what's happening, and I applaud you for it.

Hey Otto & Bees as well...

If you both don't like the path that Phil is taking...what would you have done instead - that would have been doable - given that LeBron wasn't coming to NY ?

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Hey Otto & Bees as well...

If you both don't like the path that Phil is taking...what would you have done instead - that would have been doable - given that LeBron wasn't coming to NY ?

Well, I wouldn't have hired a still-retired Phil Jackson. So that's a start.

 

[br801]

Hey Otto & Bees as well...

If you both don't like the path that Phil is taking...what would you have done instead - that would have been doable - given that LeBron wasn't coming to NY ?

How about not winning two meaningless games down the stretch that could potentially (and ultimately did) cost your team draft position? That's on somebody.

 

[Melancer46]

How about not winning two meaningless games down the stretch that could potentially (and ultimately did) cost your team draft position? That's on somebody.

How is management supposed to stop this from happening? The Knicks starters were no better than their backups, so it's not like they could make up injuries so that they could bench their stars. The players obviously aren't trying to lose; they're trying to compete for jobs. The only people really to blame are the opponents for bringing the suck for two games. Phil did an amazing job of putting together a terrible team to tank.

 

[br801]

How is management supposed to stop this from happening? The Knicks starters were no better than their backups, so it's not like they could make up injuries so that they could bench their stars. The players obviously aren't trying to lose; they're trying to compete for jobs. The only people really to blame are the opponents for bringing the suck for two games. Phil did an amazing job of putting together a terrible team to tank.

They had no trouble losing most of their games handily after throwing in the towel.

"Hey, Derek, let's not see any two-game winning streaks now. Stick with the formula, and let's see all we can of the end of the bench."

"I'm one step ahead of you, Phil."

 

[Briancuse]

Let's start with the 2nd superstar they were going to go get.


If your team sucked and continues to suck and will suck for the foreseeable future, you are doing something wrong. They got scraps. Tell me one player they got that others wish they had gotten or good be an all NBA player? They got scraps and leftovers. No different than what they've done the past several years.

They did get that 2nd superstar, it was Amare, but his knees were a mess.

 

[MikeSU02]

Let's start with the 2nd superstar they were going to go get.


If your team sucked and continues to suck and will suck for the foreseeable future, you are doing something wrong. They got scraps. Tell me one player they got that others wish they had gotten or good be an all NBA player? They got scraps and leftovers. No different than what they've done the past several years.

Not sure your definition of superstar, but my list of "superstars" is as follows:

Bron, KD, Ant Davis, Steph, Harden, CP3 and Russ. They were never getting any of these players. None. If D Rose ever gets back to 100%, you can throw him in there. Blake could be in there.

None of those guys were coming to NY. None.

Marc Gasol was never picking up their phone call.

I'm just not sure what "superstar" was coming to NY.

Again, maybe management BS'd him, but he should have known. And I would argue that RoLo is a very solid pickup. I bet you the Mavs would love to have him right about now. The other moves were solid. Melo is supposed to make them a contender, that's why he's paid what he's paid. If he can't own that role, then he should leave.

 

[Melancer46]

They had no trouble losing most of their games handily after throwing in the towel.

"Hey, Derek, let's not see any two-game winning streaks now. Stick with the formula, and let's see all we can of the end of the bench."

"I'm one step ahead of you, Phil."

They did stick with the formula though unless I'm mistaken. I don't think Fisher made any breakthrough tweaks for the last couple games; his guys just randomly played better and their opponents randomly played worse. I just don't know how Phil could have done anything more unless he literally forfeited the games, which obviously he cannot do.

 

[Knicks411]

You can't just "get" superstars. They have to like, agree to play for your team.
I think the Knicks did ok. It's going to take a while for them to get good. Pretty much anyone (Melo included) should have been able to see this last summer. And what they've done doesn't lock in that they're going to be good. I'd feel a lot better about this whole situation if they had their first round pick next year though. I wouldn't be surprised if Melo comes to Phil about a trade sometime next year.

 

[longislandcuse]

I like what I saw from Porzingis in his first SL game. The Knicks problem this year is going to be the second unit. If the starting lineup is Calderon-Afflalo-Melo-Williams-Lopez, that leaves a second unit of Grant-Galloway-???-Porzingis-O'Quinn.

Personally I'd like Grant and Porzingis to start as that lineup has a ton of potential and could be a beast defensively. That also gives the second unit some juice with Calderon, Williams and O'Quinn.

 

[Knicks411]

I like what I saw from Porzingis in his first SL game. The Knicks problem this year is going to be the second unit. If the starting lineup is Calderon-Afflalo-Melo-Williams-Lopez, that leaves a second unit of Grant-Galloway-???-Porzingis-O'Quinn.

Personally I'd like Grant and Porzingis to start as that lineup has a ton of potential and could be a beast defensively. That also gives the second unit some juice with Calderon, Williams and O'Quinn.

Ha, well I mean if we're starting Calderon and Williams, the first unit is probably going to be an issue also. If they are bound and determined to not start Melo at th e 4 maybe O'Quinn should be the 4. I think he's a pretty solid player.

But what, say Melo comes back and has an awesome, 2013 type year. We're still looking at maybe an 45 win season if everything breaks right? And more likely much lower than that. If Melo comes back and is awesome, I guess they have the option of either using him to entice someone to come here, or maybe they can move him in the summer.

 

[longislandcuse]

Ha, well I mean if we're starting Calderon and Williams, the first unit is probably going to be an issue also. If they are bound and determined to not start Melo at th e 4 maybe O'Quinn should be the 4. I think he's a pretty solid player.

But what, say Melo comes back and has an awesome, 2013 type year. We're still looking at maybe an 45 win season if everything breaks right? And more likely much lower than that. If Melo comes back and is awesome, I guess they have the option of either using him to entice someone to come here, or maybe they can move him in the summer.

I think Calderon and Williams defense can be hidden better on the second unit against other teams backups and they can both score. O'Quinn is an enforcer so he can hold it down defensively behind Lopez. It was just one game but KP's defensive potential had me drooling. He's much more fluid than I ever imagined and he's just going to keep getting bigger. Grant is very good defender and next to Afflalo would be dynamic on the defensive end. Melo-KP-Lopez is a huge frontline with a lot of spacing. Let KP take his lumps, if one game was an indication, he's clearly not scared to mix it up.

 

[Knicks411]

I don't want to go overboard on the zinger but I agree, I really think he could be something. Still needs to add weight.

I kinda think Derrick Williams is terrible.