OT: NBA's 50 greatest players (not good for Cuse)

[Eric15]

In 1997, the NBA released it's Top 50 greatest players of all-time. ESPN updated the list this year.

Added: Ray Allen, Kobe, Curry, Duncan, Durant, Garnett, Iverson, Lebron, Kidd, Miller, Nash, Dirk, Pierce, Wade

Removed: Archibald, Bing, Cowens, DeBusschere, Drexler, Sam Jones, Maravich, Parish, Dolph Schayes, Sharman, Unseld, Walton, Lenny Wilkens, Worthy

Thoughts?

The NBA’s 50 Greatest Players list: The remix

 

[realorange]

Problem with this type of ranking is age of the player vs age of the selector.

Trying to compare someone still active today with nothing but stats or grainy films is a losing game.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I kinda don't care.

 

[Alsacs]

Ray Allen isn’t a top 50 player of alltime.

He is Reggie Miller with 2 rings.
Great but not elite player.

 

[Frozen]

Where's Luc Longley?

 

[Cusefan0307]

Reggie Miller and Allen aren't better than Clyde Drexler. I need to see who remained, but whatever.

 

[RF2044]

Reggie Miller and Allen aren't better than Clyde Drexler. I need to see who remained, but whatever.

Drexler being removed is ridiculous. Especially when weighed against some of the 2017 additions.

 

[Eric15]

Where's Luc Longley?

At this exact moment? Probably a buffet in Australia somewhere.

 

[Knicks411]

Miller and Allen seem extremely marginal to me. Allen probably better than Miller. My instinct is to put Clyde ahead of both though. I think the other 12 guys added are legit though

 

[Alsacs]

Miller and Allen seem extremely marginal to me. Allen probably better than Miller. My instinct is to put Clyde ahead of both though. I think the other 12 guys added are legit though

Allen is better than Miller because he could atleast play some defense but he is not a top 50 player alltime.

Really good player for sure but not an alltimer.

 

[Eric15]

Alsacs and Knicks: FYI you were specifically the two people I thought would really enjoy this topic.

 

[Knicks411]

Allen is better than Miller because he could atleast play some defense but he is not a top 50 player alltime.

Really good player for sure but not an alltimer.

yeah agree I would have Allen ahead.

Miller was a little too much of a guy you needed to design your entire offense around. You needed to be running him off screens all day. Allen was like that, but a little less.

Also obvious statement I'll make anyway: Not being a top 50 of all time player doesn't mean you aren't great.

Looking back at the list, the other guy who made it who I guess you could argue against was Iverson; he was a divisive player in many ways. Looking at the guys who came off the list though, he would make my top 50 I think.

 

[DoctorBombay]

In 1997, the NBA released it's Top 50 greatest players of all-time. ESPN updated the list this year.

Added: Ray Allen, Kobe, Curry, Duncan, Durant, Garnett, Iverson, Lebron, Kidd, Miller, Nash, Dirk, Pierce, Wade

Removed: Archibald, Bing, Cowens, DeBusschere, Drexler, Sam Jones, Maravich, Parish, Dolph Schayes, Sharman, Unseld, Walton, Lenny Wilkens, Worthy

Thoughts?

The NBA’s 50 Greatest Players list: The remix

Wes Unseld? Dave’s Cowens & Debusschere? Nate Archibald? Pistol Pete? Lenny Wilkins and Bill Walton, not to mention, Dave Bing?
This is a subjective and frankly inconsequentially ridiculous list. Generation bias always creeps into these things and there’s really no way to get around that.

 

[Melancer46]

Without thinking about it too much, I'm not sure I'd agree with Ray Ray or Pierce being in the top 50. I'd have to give more thought to it though.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Miller and Allen are on here due to longevity/compiling stats.

 

[NineOneSeven]

The only ones I think you can add to the top 50 are Kobe, Curry, Duncan, Durant, Garnett, Iverson, Lebron, Kidd, Nash, Dirk, Wade. Even Curry is a stretch right now imo (just due to length of career).

 

[Oráiste]

They added a several active players and there is one glaring omission among them: Chris Paul, who is 24th all time in win shares, 3rd all time in win shares per 48 minutes, and 6th all time in PER. He is also one of the best defensive point guards of his era if not all time.

 

[Knicks411]

They added a several active players and there is one glaring omission among them: Chris Paul, who is 24th all time in win shares, 3rd all time in win shares per 48 minutes, and 6th all time in PER. He is also one of the best defensive point guards of his era if not all time.

Excellent call.

The only ones I think you can add to the top 50 are Kobe, Curry, Duncan, Durant, Garnett, Iverson, Lebron, Kidd, Nash, Dirk, Wade. Even Curry is a stretch right now imo (just due to length of career).

I take your point, but Shaq made the initial list. Pete Maravich did, he played 658 games. Steph has played 575; basically a little more than a season less. Walton made it with 468 games.

 

[NineOneSeven]

They added a several active players and there is one glaring omission among them: Chris Paul, who is 24th all time in win shares, 3rd all time in win shares per 48 minutes, and 6th all time in PER. He is also one of the best defensive point guards of his era if not all time.

A sure fire hall of famer. You could argue him over Kidd.

 

[Cusefan0307]

A sure fire hall of famer. You could argue him over Kidd.

39 year old Jason Kidd shut Lebron down in the finals lol.

Sorry. I had to.

 

[Knicks411]

A sure fire hall of famer. You could argue him over Kidd.

I assume Paul gets dinged here for the lack of playoff success. A trip or 2 even to the conf finals probably puts him on the list

 

[Melancer46]

They added a several active players and there is one glaring omission among them: Chris Paul, who is 24th all time in win shares, 3rd all time in win shares per 48 minutes, and 6th all time in PER. He is also one of the best defensive point guards of his era if not all time.

Damn, he completely slipped my brain.

Also, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Paul Pierce shouldn't be on the list. I'm going to skip Ray Allen and Reggie Miller because they simply shouldn't even be in consideration. Neither one has a resume anywhere near the guys listed below.

Paul Pierce's Resume:

• 1 2nd Team All-NBA
• 3 3rd Team All-NBA
• 10-time All-Star
• 1 Top 10 MVP finish
• 1 Finals MVP
• 1 NBA Champion
• Peak Stretch: 24.8/6.7/4.1 on roughly 56% TS%

Guys Definitely Ahead of Pierce:
Gary Payton (2 1st team All-NBA, 5 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 8 top 10 MVP finishes)
Chris Paul (4 1st team, 3 2nd team, 1 rd team, 7 top 10 MVP finishes)
Tracy McGrady (2 1st team, 3 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 6 top 10 MVP finishes)
Dominique Wilkins (1 1st team, 4 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 5 top 10 MVP finishes)
Russell Westbrook (2 1st team, 4 2nd team, 1 MVP, 4 top 10 finishes)


Debatable, but I'd personally say are more deserving:
Dwight Howard (5 1st team, 1 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 5 top 10 MVP finishes)
Clyde Drexler (1 1st team, 2 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 4 top 10 MVP finishes)

Debatable, probably lean towards no though:
Carmelo Anthony (2 2nd team, 4 3rd team, 2 top 10 MVP finishes)

Dwight in particular gets wayyy less consideration than he should due to his personality/how hated he was when he left Orlando/during his time in LA. His 5 year peak was insanely good. 20.6/13.9/2.5 blocks on 61% TS% and top 5 MVP finishes in 4 of those years.

 

[CusefanATL]

Damn, he completely slipped my brain.

Also, the more I think about it, the more convinced I am that Paul Pierce shouldn't be on the list. I'm going to skip Ray Allen and Reggie Miller because they simply shouldn't even be in consideration. Neither one has a resume anywhere near the guys listed below.

Paul Pierce's Resume:

• 1 2nd Team All-NBA
• 3 3rd Team All-NBA
• 10-time All-Star
• 1 Top 10 MVP finish
• 1 Finals MVP
• 1 NBA Champion
• Peak Stretch: 24.8/6.7/4.1 on roughly 56% TS%

Guys Definitely Ahead of Pierce:
Gary Payton (2 1st team All-NBA, 5 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 8 top 10 MVP finishes)
Chris Paul (4 1st team, 3 2nd team, 1 rd team, 7 top 10 MVP finishes)
Tracy McGrady (2 1st team, 3 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 6 top 10 MVP finishes)
Dominique Wilkins (1 1st team, 4 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 5 top 10 MVP finishes)
Russell Westbrook (2 1st team, 4 2nd team, 1 MVP, 4 top 10 finishes)


Debatable, but I'd personally say are more deserving:
Dwight Howard (5 1st team, 1 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 5 top 10 MVP finishes)
Clyde Drexler (1 1st team, 2 2nd team, 2 3rd team, 4 top 10 MVP finishes)

Debatable, probably lean towards no though:
Carmelo Anthony (2 2nd team, 4 3rd team, 2 top 10 MVP finishes)

No one that has never been a 1st team All NBAer should be on any all time top 50 list.

 

[Knicks411]

Made me think a lot on Pierce. I think you sold me.

 

[Cusefan0307]

I give Drexler the benefit of the doubt because his entire career paralleled Jordan's and his team routinely got to the playoffs and won multiple series. When was he going to make first team All NBA as shooting guard in that era?

He was the best player on a team that went to the finals twice and lost. Took Jordan's Bulls to 6 and was the second best player on a team that beat Shaq/in prime Penny Hardaway in the finals.

I could see Payton making it. Nique was that era's Melo. Great scorer, little playoff success.