OT: NBA's 50 greatest players (not good for Cuse)

[Trueblue25]

Without thinking about it too much, I'm not sure I'd agree with Ray Ray or Pierce being in the top 50. I'd have to give more thought to it though.

Pierce, not Ray. Pierce was that good for a very long time.

 

[Melancer46]

Pierce, not Ray. Pierce was that good for a very long time.

How good is "that good" though? He was never really a top 10 active player in the NBA, much less a top 50 of all-time.

Don't get me wrong, he had a great career. But for me at least, when discussing the best players of all-time, I care far more about greatness, even if only for 7ish seasons versus being pretty good but not great for 10+. It's essentially the same reason I don't think Eli Manning should be a Hall of Famer in the NFL.

 

[Orangtiz]

Pierce doesn't belong there, Curry certainly doesn't belong there yet but he will eventually. I have little respect for Curry and personally find watching him jack up terrible 3's very boring.

 

[Knicks411]

How good is "that good" though? He was never really a top 10 active player in the NBA, much less a top 50 of all-time.

Don't get me wrong, he had a great career. But for me at least, when discussing the best players of all-time, I care far more about greatness, even if only for 7ish seasons versus being pretty good but not great for 10+. It's essentially the same reason I don't think Eli Manning should be a Hall of Famer in the NFL.

Yeah, one MVP top 10 seems really light for one of the 50 best players of all time. Like I said before, I'm swayed on Pierce. I'm out on him.

 

[Alsacs]

How good is "that good" though? He was never really a top 10 active player in the NBA, much less a top 50 of all-time.

Don't get me wrong, he had a great career. But for me at least, when discussing the best players of all-time, I care far more about greatness, even if only for 7ish seasons versus being pretty good but not great for 10+. It's essentially the same reason I don't think Eli Manning should be a Hall of Famer in the NFL.

KaiserUEO
It’s cause Eli isn’t a HOFer.

On Pierce he was the 2nd best SF in 00s but I wouldn’t put him top 50.

He was slightly better than Melo.

 

[OrangeDW]

In 1997, the NBA released it's Top 50 greatest players of all-time. ESPN updated the list this year.

Added: Ray Allen, Kobe, Curry, Duncan, Durant, Garnett, Iverson, Lebron, Kidd, Miller, Nash, Dirk, Pierce, Wade

Removed: Archibald, Bing, Cowens, DeBusschere, Drexler, Sam Jones, Maravich, Parish, Dolph Schayes, Sharman, Unseld, Walton, Lenny Wilkens, Worthy

Thoughts?

The NBA’s 50 Greatest Players list: The remix

Well...Carmelo is better than Miller, Allen, and IMO Pierce too so maybe he’ll be added next time. And they didn’t right the wrong of leaving Dominique out? SMH.

 

[OrangeDW]

No one that has never been a 1st team All NBAer should be on any all time top 50 list.

If the 2 forwards keeping you off are Lebron and KD? Not sure on that.

 

[Newhouser]

Wes Unseld? Dave’s Cowens & Debusschere? Nate Archibald? Pistol Pete? Lenny Wilkins and Bill Walton, not to mention, Dave Bing?
This is a subjective and frankly inconsequentially ridiculous list. Generation bias always creeps into these things and there’s really no way to get around that.

Agree. The modern player gets more credit than deserved. Bing was better than Pierce,. Nash, Miller and Allen.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Pierce doesn't belong there, Curry certainly doesn't belong there yet but he will eventually. I have little respect for Curry and personally find watching him jack up terrible 3's very boring.

He does a lot more than jack up 3’s. Pretty sure he lead the NBA in shooting percentage at the rim the past 3 years.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Pierce doesn't belong there, Curry certainly doesn't belong there yet but he will eventually. I have little respect for Curry and personally find watching him jack up terrible 3's very boring.

And he makes them.

Curry has changed the game. There are some players who have such an impact in a certain way, they legitimately change the game (think Shaq).

 

[Melancer46]

Yeah, the "Curry doesn't belong" talk is silly. 2 time MVP and arguably the most impactful offensive player of the modern generation. He's simply incredible.

 

[KaiserUEO]

KaiserUEO
It’s cause Eli isn’t a HOFer.

On Pierce he was the 2nd best SF in 00s but I wouldn’t put him top 50.

He was slightly better than Melo.

What is my #1 Board Rule?

The one that time and time and time and time again...has proven to be infallible???

It is...

THE BOARD IS ALWAYS WRONG.

Eli is a HOFer.

 

[orange79]

What is my #1 Board Rule.

The one that time and time and time and time again, has proven to be infallible???

It is...

THE BOARD IS ALWAYS WRONG.

Eli is a HOFer.

 

[Eric15]

Pierce doesn't belong there, Curry certainly doesn't belong there yet but he will eventually. I have little respect for Curry and personally find watching him jack up terrible 3's very boring.

He's a career 44% three point shooter. I don't think "terrible" and "jacking up" applies to him.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Kyrie Irving is supposed to be the best guard finisher right?

Career he is 59% at the rim.

Curry has only been below that two out of eight seasons and that’s when he was hurt. He’s a career 64%.

This belief that Curry just shoots 3’s is dumb.

 

[Knicks411]

Kyrie Irving is supposed to be the best guard finisher right?

Career he is 59% at the rim.

Curry has only been below that two out of eight seasons and that’s when he was hurt. He’s a career 64%.

This belief that Curry just shoots 3’s is dumb.

Also, if it was all he did, and he made them at like 45%, it wouldn't really matter.

3>2.

 

[DoctorBombay]

And he makes them.

Curry has changed the game. There are some players who have such an impact in a certain way, they legitimately change the game (think Shaq).

Curry belongs. He’s the first player in the history of the game that you have to pick up at half-court. He stretches the floor like no one before him, has a ridiculous handle, is a great passer, and has the quickest release I’ve ever seen. He’s the best shooter of all-time, imo.

 

[newmexicuse]

Really don't care much about this list & I especially don't care about whether a player who is not on a team I root for is on it or not.

That being said.....Dave Bing BELONGS !!!!

 

[OrangeDW]

Reggie is on it, but not Payton? Crazy.

Reggie wasn’t any better than Richmond, Rice, Steve Smith, Sprewell, etc. Good player, but nowhere near top 50 ever.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Curry averaged 5 threes a game two years ago

Read that sentence again

 

[SoBeCuse]

Kyrie Irving is supposed to be the best guard finisher right?

Career he is 59% at the rim.

Curry has only been below that two out of eight seasons and that’s when he was hurt. He’s a career 64%.

This belief that Curry just shoots 3’s is dumb.

No question re: Curry but I would wager that Irving still has had more attempts at the rim. Both can make those ridiculous layups with crazy english but Irving attacks the rim more, IMO. Curry’s 3pt and midrange game is flawless.

 

[Eric15]

Generation bias always creeps into these things and there’s really no way to get around that.

This update was between 1997 and 2017, 20 years, which encompasses about 29% of the league's history. 14 players were added to the new list out of 50, 28% of the list. It's almost perfectly proportional.

Also, its to be expected that the 50s and 60s would be less represented on the list, based on the fact that there were only 8-10 teams in the league back then, and thus way fewer players.

What did you see specifically that makes you think the list has generation bias?

 

[Shawn91111]

How is Drexler, a top 5 SG removed?

 

[DoctorBombay]

This update was between 1997 and 2017, 20 years, which encompasses about 29% of the league's history. 14 players were added to the new list out of 50, 28% of the list. It's almost perfectly proportional.

Also, its to be expected that the 50s and 60s would be less represented on the list, based on the fact that there were only 8-10 teams in the league back then, and thus way fewer players.

What did you see specifically that makes you think the list has generation bias?

Proportional it may be but that doesn’t make it accurate, imo.
Where I sense generational bias is with the removal of a Wes Unseld, the only ROY and MVP in the same season, and maybe the best rebounder of all-time. Or Tiny Archibald who in his prime, was as good or better than Iverson, IMO.
The bias is evident primarily when you consider the type of game that’s played today, what’s valued and emphasized vs what might’ve in the past. Unseld couldn’t jump a lick and had the quintessential boring “old man” game, which might lead him to be overlooked by those who’re used to high wire acts and rim-rattling dunks.
Again, if all I’m used to are athletic supermen, then the fundamental hustle of a Cowens or Debusschere, the scoring ability of a Pistol Pete or Lenny Wilkins or Dave Bing , can be over-shadowed by what one has seen, vs what’s “better”. It’s all good though, as it happens in every sport. JMHO

 

[CusefanATL]

If the 2 forwards keeping you off are Lebron and KD? Not sure on that.

KD hasnt made a 1st team All NBA team in 4 years.