OT: Pros and Cons of joining a Greek house at SU...

[cto]

Last week, two young friends asked my opinion on whether they should join a Greek house at SU. After warning that my perspective might by seriously outdated, I said my experience had been overwhelmingly positive. The positives included: 1) Having a ready-made group of friends; 2) Having a place to live without going through the annual housing hassle; 3) Having a place to store your stuff over the summer and a place to park your car during the school year; 4) Having a sense of a smaller community within a large institution. I literally could not think of a negative.

Then I began to wonder: are these considerations still valid in light of a very different campus? When I was at SU, the Greek community was much larger than it is how (at least 50 national houses)... and it filled a huge need for on-campus housing (prior to the construction of many of the newer dorms). Also, there were strict parietals that limited housing alternatives ... e.g., all unmarried under-gradudate women under age 25 had to live in either dormitories or sorority houses... and there were strictly enforced curfews for such students.

Given the huge changes at SU, are Greek houses still relevant? Do they fill any role other than throwing parties? Or are they an anachronism on a campus that is preaching diversity and inclusion?

 

[jekelish]

I never joined a frat, but one of my roommates was the president of his frat. I never would have put up with the hazing stuff (which I'm sure they call initiation, but it's absolutely, 100% absurd, degrading, hazing from the stories I was told). I think the housing part is overblown, since you can wind up living off campus sooner than later in college these days.

Now, I'm just basing this on guys. Sororities may be wildly different. I think in terms of setting up networking opportunities, the Greek system is great. Otherwise, frankly, I've never really understood it. In my personal experience, from hanging around my roommate's frat house a considerable amount, it's basically all about planning parties and getting drunk.

 

[Brooky03]

I was never in a frat at Oswego (I assume the pros and cons of Greek life at most colleges don't differ a whole lot) but I did room in a suite with 3 guys who were in a frat. From their stories/experiences, I'd say these are the primary negatives:

1) Hazing. It's real and it can be pretty bad.
2) It's more expensive than most people realize. They would justify spending $500+ in dues/frat expenses each semester by saying it more than paid for their beer, but I remember drinking plenty without even coming close to spending that much in a semester on alcohol.
3) The low-stress housing decision can be nice and cheap, but you also have the problem of living in a frat/sorority house. Peace and quiet is rare, so you'd better get used to doing homework in the library.

 

[Bayside44]

Last week, two young friends asked my opinion on whether they should join a Greek house at SU. After warning that my perspective might by seriously outdated, I said my experience had been overwhelmingly positive. The positives included: 1) Having a ready-made group of friends; 2) Having a place to live without going through the annual housing hassle; 3) Having a place to store your stuff over the summer and a place to park your car during the school year; 4) Having a sense of a smaller community within a large institution. I literally could not think of a negative.

Then I began to wonder: are these considerations still valid in light of a very different campus? When I was at SU, the Greek community was much larger than it is how (at least 50 national houses)... and it filled a huge need for on-campus housing (prior to the construction of many of the newer dorms). Also, there were strict parietals that limited housing alternatives ... e.g., all unmarried under-gradudate women under age 25 had to live in either dormitories or sorority houses... and there were strictly enforced curfews for such students.

Given the huge changes at SU, are Greek houses still relevant? Do they fill any role other than throwing parties? Or are they an anachronism on a campus that is preaching diversity and inclusion?

For guys you seem to have a lifetime of golf reunion trips in your future.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I stayed away from all male organizations centered around Greek culture. Just my preference.

 

[CuseCrew08]

I was not in a frat at SU, but the crew team acted as one for me; a tightly knit group of ready made friends. If they don't plan on joining any other clubs, I would say a frat/sorority is a good idea. Most of the girls I hung out with were in sororities when I was there, and the ones that weren't were part of Danceworks or played a sport at SU.

If you are social enough I am sure they can find a great group of friends without a club or Greek life, but it's nice to have a base I think.

 

[Eric15]

I never would have put up with the hazing stuff (which I'm sure they call initiation, but it's absolutely, 100% absurd, degrading, hazing from the stories I was told).

Me too, I wouldn't put up with that for more than 30 seconds. Just go to college and make friends the old-fashioned way, by finding people that you're compatible with and having fun together. Why anyone would subject them to physical abuse in order to wear a sweatshirt with Greek letters on it is incomprehensible to me.

 

[stuckinbig11]

My experience is out of date also, but in addition to the points you made, I would say that my fraternity had great brotherhood as we participated (and often won) in most every intramural sport in our drive to be overall intramural champions. Teammates become close friends. Oh, yeah, I forgot to mention meeting WOMEN and having fun activities to which you could invite them ! I, too, wonder if such is still the case.

 

[HoustonCuse]

I don't really have much to offer, but I wonder if sororities haze prospective members like fraternities do? From some viral internet stuff I have seen (remember that insane email from the sorority leader to the members from a couple years back?), it seems like the frats are going to humiliate and physically abuse you and the sororities are going to more socially shame you. This sounds like the girls get a better deal, but I'm not totally sure.

If a sorority was a support network that helped my daughter in college I would be all for it. If it served as simply an irresistible force of peer pressure to do things I would prefer she doesn't, then I want her nowhere near it. I just don't know what it is really like.

 

[jekelish]

If a sorority was a support network that helped my daughter in college I would be all for it. If it served as simply an irresistible force of peer pressure to do things I would prefer she doesn't, then I want her nowhere near it. I just don't know what it is really like.

The sorority girls I knew at SU seemed to have a more "normal" support system. But from the horror stories I heard about frat hazing, I wouldn't want my son anywhere near it. It's dangerous and humiliating. And I'm getting this straight from the stories my buddies in frats told me about what they had to go through.

 

[TexanMark]

I would advise them to go to the Rush/Smokers or whatever they call them now and make the decision for themselves. At a school like Syracuse the Greek System is still a pretty big deal. I went to Oswego and it wasn't that organized and the Chapters were living in run down old houses.

 

[stuckinbig11]

But from the horror stories I heard about frat hazing, I wouldn't want my son anywhere near it. It's dangerous and humiliating. And I'm getting this straight from the stories my buddies in frats told me about what they had to go through.

There may have been houses with bad hazing, but ours was just simple, stupid stuff that posed no danger or humiliation to anyone. Even as a pledge, I would describe it as fun.

 

[Frozen]

"You guys playing cards?"

 

[SUATO92]

I joined ATO during my time on the hill and never regretted it for one day. I look back on my time in my house as some of the best days of my life and I am continually made proud by the support that I see my brothers give to each other and their communities all of these many years later.
The environment that the houses operate under now is one of greater micromanagement and scrutiny by the university and the national offices but the relevancy remains the same as it has ever been. As someone else suggested your young friends should rush and see if some of the sororities click for them.

 

[SUATO92]

The sorority girls I knew at SU seemed to have a more "normal" support system. But from the horror stories I heard about frat hazing, I wouldn't want my son anywhere near it. It's dangerous and humiliating. And I'm getting this straight from the stories my buddies in frats told me about what they had to go through.

Any organization that has young males gathered as a group has the potential for hazing...so by extension there should be no group comprised of young males. Correct?

 

[jekelish]

Any organization that has young males gathered as a group has the potential for hazing...so by extension there should be no group comprised of young males. Correct?

Yes, that's exactly what I said.

And you do realize I said "from the stories people told me" and that doesn't extend to you, right? So don't worry, I'm not saying you and your ATO brothers did anything. But I'm glad you immediately took it personally even though, again, I very clearly said it was based on experiences of people I know.

 

[rjvanals]

Coming from an 2007 grad who was in a frat at SU here is my perspective:

Both my wife and the girl I dated for 2 years after graduation were both in sororities. My wife was the social chair of her sorority, and my ex-gf was new member educator ie punishment chair at her house. For girls, the rush process is a bit catty and often based on where you are from, religion, socio-economic status etc. They check every potential member on social media to make sure that they are the "right" image for the house. Pledging in the sororities at SU isn't all that bad compared to most schools, and has been gradually getting easier and easier each year. If I had a daughter, I wouldn't worry to much about her doing pledging at any of the houses on the hill. My wife has a lot of good friends from her sorority that she sees often, and I met her through the social chair of my frat who roomed with her in London. My ex gf made a ton of great friends in her sorority who often visit her in LA and she sees when she comes east. I can tell you both would strongly recommend any girl at least go through the rush process and see if there was a great connection with any of the houses.

For guys, the process is a bit less formal. By the time I was a senior we did start checking guys on social media, but it was more of do we want to hang out with this guy when we made bid decisions. All of the houses on the hill haze to some extent, some much more than others. However, this has also been getting cracked down on even more since I was there. I would describe the pledge process as the best 6 weeks of my life I would never want to do again. Compared to other schools I have been to and where my friends were in frats, the pledge process at all of the frats at SU was relatively tame especially compared to some of the bigger state schools. If I had a son who was pledging a frat at SU, I would worry but I wouldn't be against him joining a house as most of the pledge events can be done safely as long as people use a little common sense. I''m happy I joined a frat and it made my time a ton of fun and it directly led me to meeting my wife. I would tell any guy thinking of joining a frat to go through rush and see if you like a house.

 

[Cusefannotindc]

A guy I used to work with once said to me, "In my frat all we would do is sit around and talk about hitting on girls... then we would go do it." So... yea...

 

[dollarbill44]

A guy I used to work with once said to me, "In my frat all we would do is sit around and talk about hitting on girls... then we would go do it." So... yea...

That pretty much describes what every heterosexual college male does.

 

[dollarbill44]

I was in a fraternity for 2.5 years at SU, so I was very familiar with college life outside of the Greek system. The time also allowed me to get a feel for the different houses and which ones I might want to be a part of based on friendships I had made with guys in different houses. I had a lot of fun and met a lot more people than I would have had I stayed independent through parties with sororities and other frats.

I never lived in the house, but I definitely enjoyed the parking privileges my senior year when I had a car and lived several blocks off campus. As others have mentioned, hazing seems to vary widely by house as I wouldn't consider any of the hijinx we did as hazing, although by the strict definition that is used, some of it would be: scavenger hunt, drinking games, doing chores, etc. It was all pretty benign in our house and was actually seen as fun by pretty much everyone and were great for bonding. No one ever got hurt and I don't recall anyone ever dropping out because of what we did.

Bottom line, I remember it as being a very positive experience. Granted, I graduated 24 years ago, so things may have changed.

 

[Forza Azzurri]

Last week, two young friends asked my opinion on whether they should join a Greek house at SU. After warning that my perspective might by seriously outdated, I said my experience had been overwhelmingly positive. The positives included: 1) Having a ready-made group of friends; 2) Having a place to live without going through the annual housing hassle; 3) Having a place to store your stuff over the summer and a place to park your car during the school year; 4) Having a sense of a smaller community within a large institution. I literally could not think of a negative.

Then I began to wonder: are these considerations still valid in light of a very different campus? When I was at SU, the Greek community was much larger than it is how (at least 50 national houses)... and it filled a huge need for on-campus housing (prior to the construction of many of the newer dorms). Also, there were strict parietals that limited housing alternatives ... e.g., all unmarried under-gradudate women under age 25 had to live in either dormitories or sorority houses... and there were strictly enforced curfews for such students.

Given the huge changes at SU, are Greek houses still relevant? Do they fill any role other than throwing parties? Or are they an anachronism on a campus that is preaching diversity and inclusion?

I was Greek. Plenty of positives and negatives.

They need to figure it out for themselves.

Certainly not for everyone but, for others, it WAS college.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

I would advise them to go to the Rush/Smokers or whatever they call them now and make the decision for themselves. At a school like Syracuse the Greek System is still a pretty big deal. I went to Oswego and it wasn't that organized and the Chapters were living in run down old houses.

Hey Mark, is there any place in Oswego that's not an old run down house? Half the bars in town when we went there were in old run down houses.

Joyce-as others have said it's up to the individual. My experience was all positive and continues to be to this day (35 years later). Especially now with social media it is very easy to connect with friends from long ago and to make new ones. Plus the built in networking is very strong as is the brotherhood. My fraternity is almost 70 years old with a very strong alumni base so something must be right.

Again, it's not for everyone but this was something we put together as some of the benefits. I've included just the headers and not the verbiage but being in the fraternity gave you a lot of opportunities to develop in these categories.

Social Skills
Speaking Skills
Time Management
Event Planning and Logistics Skills
Accounting Skills
Philanthropy and Community Service
Professionalism
Networking
Developing Leadership Skills
Finding a Mentor
Personal Development and Character Building
For the Brotherhood

 

[anomander]

I don't really have much to offer, but I wonder if sororities haze prospective members like fraternities do? From some viral internet stuff I have seen (remember that insane email from the sorority leader to the members from a couple years back?), it seems like the frats are going to humiliate and physically abuse you and the sororities are going to more socially shame you. This sounds like the girls get a better deal, but I'm not totally sure.

If a sorority was a support network that helped my daughter in college I would be all for it. If it served as simply an irresistible force of peer pressure to do things I would prefer she doesn't, then I want her nowhere near it. I just don't know what it is really like.

They sure do, and in some cases could be worse. My college girlfriend was in a sorority and some of the stuff she told me shocked me. One of the craziest things she told me is the tradition where the girls that were being hazed are made to strip down to their bra and underwear, and the current "sisters" would take a sharpie and circle all the places they though the girls were fat.

 

[bevosu]

"You guys playing cards?"

I was asked to join two frats as a freshman (different college)...prior to going to SU for the remainder of my college years. I turned them down...

"I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member." Groucho Marx.

I did have a friend who pretty much paid his way through Cornell by joining a frat and then cleaning out his frat bros playing poker. They called him "The Greek Bandito".

 

[Trueblue25]

I've been greek 3 of my 4 years here at school. I regret absolutely nothing, I've gained many positives outside of partying from it.