OT: Pros and Cons of joining a Greek house at SU...

[Melancer46]

I never really understood the point of joining a fraternity that involved hazing; I ended up joining a co-ed frat called Phi Sigma Pi that's considered an "honors" fraternity but it's somewhere between a social and an academic fraternity. Its designation allows you to be a brother of PSP while also joining an academic or social fraternity. I can't speak on how other frats work, but in PSP, you had to take part in a bunch of different events (which I assume most others also require), and you had to have a 3.0 GPA. There was definitely some annoying aspects to the fraternity, but I met my girlfriend of a little under 4 years as a brother (auctioned myself off as part of our pledge class fundraiser and she was the winning bidder) along with a bunch of my best friends.

If these kids wanted to join an organization without having to go through the potential hazing, that's one option. They still have a rush period, throw parties, etc., but it's probably a bit more tame.

Having said that, some of my favorite brothers from PSP were also in the more traditional greek fraternities and I have no complaints about them. There's obviously a stereotype around fraternities, but it seems to me that if you're alright with dealing with whatever hazing they may or may not require, it can be a very rewarding experience.

 

[Pat Kelly]

There is a case going on right now in Albany where they just arrested a bunch of fraternity brothers who had one of their pledges die last year from drinking 64 (or more) 0z. of vodka if I remember the story correctly. I pledged over 35 years ago and we did nothing like that at all. Yes, we had some minor chugging contests but there was no way any of us would have drank 64 oz of a liquor. I really hate to say this, but the pledge who drank that much, isn't he somewhat at fault as well (unless he was being held down with his hands tied behind his back). When you are 18, you still need to know the difference between right and wrong. It's a sad, sad situation and I would hate to be the kids parents.

Right there is a big problem I have with Greek life. The pledges are usually freshmen who are unacclimated with living away from home and all that and they probably are really trying to make friends. Not that I'd ever support hazing, but I think that this hazing is happening at an age when these kids don't really know better.

 

[721Comstock]

Right there is a big problem I have with Greek life. The pledges are usually freshmen who are unacclimated with living away from home and all that and they probably are really trying to make friends. Not that I'd ever support hazing, but I think that this hazing is happening at an age when these kids don't really know better.

There's hazing, and then there's hazing. Some of it (from what I heard happened at other houses) was just idiotic and degrading.
What went on at the fraternity I was in, was more about developing unity amongst the pledge class, and the brotherhood.
Honestly, I enjoyed most of it.

And yes - there was drinking. A lot of drinking. But - that's college, too. Or was - dunno if it's like that anymore.
And in my house, if a pledge couldn't drink anymore, that was fine - his classmates would pick it up for him.

I pledged as a 2nd semester soph. Did 2 years in SUMB, and those first 2 years in the dorms (Lawrinson).
Made a lot of good friends in both, but not to the same depth as some of the guys from my house - particularly my pledge class.
I loved living in the house my last 2 years.

The Fraternity experience MADE my SU experience - I wouldn't trade it for anything.
YMMV.

 

[Ghost]

This is a guess, but per capita I would bet there are more campus murders or campus accidental deaths or campus od/drinking deaths than campus hazing deaths. There is plenty to be worried about as a parent - your kid joining a frat isn't overly dangerous. I would be more scared about my son/daughter living in brewster/boland or on the south side, west side, north side, and now east side of campus than I would having them live on Walnut.

Trust me, my frat did not follow any of the rules. And btw, we got kicked off campus for the dumbest "hazing" event ever that made the front page of the DO and it didnt involve hospitalization or a death.

The Greek system may be more dangerous to others than to your kid to be honest, but regardless I'm not sure it fosters an environment of safety. I mean academic fraud is pretty institutionalized (it's a big code of dishonor), and if you're outside the Greek system and see some shady stuff and want out - it's an easier move to the exit. It's not so simple to just step away from a "family" - I would think one of the nice things about school is finally being away from HS and finding yourself. In a Frat, eh, you signed up for a self-selected brotherhood as many have repeatedly referenced.

Your social life, your life, you pretty much sign it over as a FROSH as part of a big family. Not that you don't make friends outside the Frat or have a life - but the whole system is meant to break you down, and bring you back up to form that unbreakable bond...but for what purpose? It's not the military, it's not even a sports team. A lot of the time it's just a bunch of kids who share an interest in polo shirts and partying. It's a very weird thing.

The stats would say raping is FAR more prevalent in the Greek system fwiw - because it's orchestrated much better. I doubt you have the coordinated rape strategies floating around in some random Freshman's back pocket. Again, I don't for a minute think this is everywhere - but not sure I would want my kid near it when the other option is, "hey, go to college, learn some crap, make some friends, grow as a person, and have a lot of fun."

Plus, you can live wherever you want - tell your kid to live in a safe area. Or send them to a school that's not surrounded by crap like SU.

As far as murders/accidental deaths - I wouldn't argue that, not too sure if it would be different.

I just can't ever wrap my head around it - been around schools my whole life, and I suppose I wouldn't be too terrified about my son's personal safety (although i would be incredibly disappointed and a little worried), but if it was my daughter, yeah, I'd be scared.

 

[Pat Kelly]

There's hazing, and then there's hazing. Some of it (from what I heard happened at other houses) was just idiotic and degrading.
What went on at the fraternity I was in, was more about developing unity amongst the pledge class, and the brotherhood.
Honestly, I enjoyed most of it.

And yes - there was drinking. A lot of drinking. But - that's college, too. Or was - dunno if it's like that anymore.
And in my house, if a pledge couldn't drink anymore, that was fine - his classmates would pick it up for him.

I pledged as a 2nd semester soph. Did 2 years in SUMB, and those first 2 years in the dorms (Lawrinson).
Made a lot of good friends in both, but not to the same depth as some of the guys from my house - particularly my pledge class.
I loved living in the house my last 2 years.

The Fraternity experience MADE my SU experience - I wouldn't trade it for anything.
YMMV.

And plenty do have an experience just like yours. All I'm saying is, kids pledging can't just blindly assume a bunch of kids that barely even know them truly have their best interests in mind.

 

[dilligaf]

There is an extreme range of perception on fraternities here.

People who joined have generally favorable view; some others distrust them as cults.

My pledge experience:
Six weeks of ball busting, harmless and not particularly degrading.
We learned songs and poems; did pushups, chugged a few beers (no 64 ounce of vodka challenges - that's assault)
We participated in many social events on campus; more than I would have attended on my own.

We donated time and raised money for charity.
Nobody was raped. Fraternity brothers have as much respect for law and others as anyone else.

We leveraged our college experience. I socialized with many more of my college peers than I otherwise would have.
We had chapters at both of the local colleges so we shared in each school's social events.

Universities exert institutional control over fraternities; informal/underground clubs are not scrutinized.
Typically, fraternities have alumni advisors that are involved. They help keep things real.
Many of the criminal hazing incidents, recently reported in media, involved "outlaw fraternities" which aren't fraternities at all.

There may be some hardcore frats out there that go too far,
but once they are caught in illegal activities they are disbanded by responsible universities.

A parent could always inquire with university administration about any fraternities their child might consider. I'd be more worried about my child hopping in a car driven by a reckless drunk "friend".