OT: SU's house-cleaning continues

[tipphill]

Do a little more research. It was 120ish 5-6 years ago. It's been bouncing around, but it's trending upwards.

you are correct, however she has been the primary reason that it has sucked. poor leadership, rigid, cannot get along with anyone and a disgruntled faculty. trending upward has a lot to do with a new school and with it comes new leadership.chancellor is a law school guy so i have high hopes.w/o a med school, the law school needs to be top notch, as well as a business school

 

[tipphill]

but, but, but the building is in the Top 25 prettiest law buildings in the world. Doesn't that count...

that helps, as facilities and law libraries count as well as faculty

 

[texascpa]

that helps, as facilities and law libraries count as well as faculty

Sure, but when your "obituary's" main point is the prettiness of the building you sort of helped get built, that says something about the rest of your leadership.

 

[tipphill]

Sure, but when your "obituary's" main point is the prettiness of the building you sort of helped get built, that says something about the rest of your leadership.

i believe it had nothing to do with her, hence her removal. she is a victim of progress, if she was a mover and shaker she would still be in charge. su needed to get her out, she has been an albatross, stoic and not fit to lead in this culture---su needs a premier law school---they do not have a upper eschelon school. say what you want about maxwell, newhouse, etal---its not law, MEDICINE,engineering etc. we need a LEADING law school, we have no research or anything that distinguishing us from the masses----we are nothing more than an a expensive private school that have news people and sportscasters---god, i wish we had research

 

[shandeezy7]

I won't swear to it, but it seems to me that a Maxwell dean took a sabbatical and then returned as a tenured professor.

It's happened at Le Moyne a bunch of times as well. Apples and oranges in terms of size and scope of the colleges, but it does happen.

 

[rosconey]

i worked on dineen hall- they pissed plenty of money away- the little patch of green carpet at the top of the stairs cost what a whole house would have-
the lighting fixtures that look like flying books - or the ceiling above the entrance-

 

[AZOrange]

i worked on dineen hall- they pissed plenty of money away- the little patch of green carpet at the top of the stairs cost what a whole house would have- the lighting fixtures that look like flying books - or the ceiling above the entrance-

yeah I can't imagine what the constitutional wall scribble cost...yikes. I just can't believe there's not a place where students can sit, eat, study

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Sounds about right. First thing they need to do is halve the student body, then halve the faculty.

That's bold.

 

[nzm136]

you are correct, however she has been the primary reason that it has sucked. poor leadership, rigid, cannot get along with anyone and a disgruntled faculty. trending upward has a lot to do with a new school and with it comes new leadership.chancellor is a law school guy so i have high hopes.w/o a med school, the law school needs to be top notch, as well as a business school

I am extremely optimistic about the future and think that SU has a very strong value proposition that will only grow stronger, especially in the soft sciences.

Don't mistake anything that I said as going against that over-arching theme.

 

[NKR1978]

yeah I can't imagine what the constitutional wall scribble cost...yikes. I just can't believe there's not a place where students can sit, eat, study

It really is crazy to me that there's no comfortable place in that building for students to just relax.

It really is an incredible facility, but they have so many rooms that realistically will never or rarely be used that they could have easily created a lounge area.

The cafeteria is exponentially better than the old law school cafeteria, so there's that.

 

[OttoMets]

It really is crazy to me that there's no comfortable place in that building for students to just relax.

It really is an incredible facility, but they have so many rooms that realistically will never or rarely be used that they could have easily created a lounge area.

The cafeteria is exponentially better than the old law school cafeteria, so there's that.

Yeah, there's beer.

Why? Because the administration believed that law students didn't know how to drink responsibly, so they wanted to give them a safe place in which to learn how to do it.

 

[AZOrange]

It really is crazy to me that there's no comfortable place in that building for students to just relax.

It really is an incredible facility, but they have so many rooms that realistically will never or rarely be used that they could have easily created a lounge area.

The cafeteria is exponentially better than the old law school cafeteria, so there's that.

Well a lemonade stand would have been better than that...

 

[javadoc]

Well a lemonade stand would have been better than that...

 

[tipphill]

I am extremely optimistic about the future and think that SU has a very strong value proposition that will only grow stronger, especially in the soft sciences.

Don't mistake anything that I said as going against that over-arching theme.

we only have soft sciences----i do not know what strong value proposition means, and are you applying it to the global syracuse universe, or just the law school. do not mistake anything i said, as understanding anything you said

 

[OrangePA]

I spent my last 2 years in the lounge, playing cards.

Do they play cards in Skadden mail room???

 

[nzm136]

we only have soft sciences----i do not know what strong value proposition means, and are you applying it to the global syracuse universe, or just the law school. do not mistake anything i said, as understanding anything you said

Strong value proposition = compelling reason to go to Syracuse, both the university as a whole and the law school as a subset of the university

And yes, we emphasize soft sciences, but we're very good at them. Unless I'm reading into something that isn't there, you seem to look down on soft sciences, but I don't know why. They are every bit as beneficial as hard sciences, and usually far more useful.

 

[tipphill]

Strong value proposition = compelling reason to go to Syracuse, both the university as a whole and the law school as a subset of the university

And yes, we emphasize soft sciences, but we're very good at them. Unless I'm reading into something that isn't there, you seem to look down on soft sciences, but I don't know why. They are every bit as beneficial as hard sciences, and usually far more useful.

excellence in law, medicine, engineering, biomedical research are all prestigious areas nationally---excellence in hard sciences are highly valued nationally by academia, and scientific research excellence generates public and private sector investments, and grants on a high scale, one the soft sciences do not generate. soft sciences have their value, but usually does not generate the mega bucks and prestige as the harder sciences do, as well as excellence in law and medicine. we do have the law school and should make every effort to get that into the top 20. this would compliment the outstanding soft sciences that we have. however without a emphasis on a hard science research base , which is generally the cornerstone of prestigious national universities, we remain a good university with 3-4 flagship schools---maxwell leading the pack----

 

[reedny]

has any professor actually come back to any school after taking this kind of "leave"?

She can come back as a visitor.

 

[reedny]

i believe it had nothing to do with her, hence her removal. she is a victim of progress, if she was a mover and shaker she would still be in charge. su needed to get her out, she has been an albatross, stoic and not fit to lead in this culture---su needs a premier law school---they do not have a upper eschelon school. say what you want about maxwell, newhouse, etal---its not law, MEDICINE,engineering etc. we need a LEADING law school, we have no research or anything that distinguishing us from the masses----we are nothing more than an a expensive private school that have news people and sportscasters---god, i wish we had research

The law school was formerly ranked highly, but slipped as the library/facilities declined (comparatively). They made improvements, including a new entryway and bigger library, to the EI White facility .. but it was too little too late. The new building is part of an effort to return the college to respectability (equivalent to other leading programs like Maxwell, Newhouse, etc..). The construction was not cheap (I think the final cost was between 90 and 100M). Initially, I hated the plan, but once built (esp. with the dark stone), I have to say I find the facade attractive. The interior is packed with functionality and is well equipped, including some large open study spaces. Although it doesn't offer space to play ping pong, most law students have little time for that. They can chill in the dorms or at the student center (or Faegans). Hopefully, the new dean will complete the CL's return to prominence.

 

[nzm136]

excellence in law, medicine, engineering, biomedical research are all prestigious areas nationally---excellence in hard sciences are highly valued nationally by academia, and scientific research excellence generates public and private sector investments, and grants on a high scale, one the soft sciences do not generate. soft sciences have their value, but usually does not generate the mega bucks and prestige as the harder sciences do, as well as excellence in law and medicine. we do have the law school and should make every effort to get that into the top 20. this would compliment the outstanding soft sciences that we have. however without a emphasis on a hard science research base , which is generally the cornerstone of prestigious national universities, we remain a good university with 3-4 flagship schools---maxwell leading the pack----

I strongly disagree. Soft sciences drive money and publicity. Hard sciences drive research funding (i.e. restricted to research). Research in and of itself is not especially important for a private university. Cash isn't. We're in the business of educating students, not creating public goods.

To see the power of soft sciences, look at the following examples:

Look at the advantage that the U of Alabama has when it comes to state politics in Alabama, even when compared to Auburn (see UAB). Much of that is driven by their law school. The state government is systematically stacked in their favor.

Since this is a SU sports board, look at the contributions that Newhouse's ESPN connections have made to keeping SU relevant, despite 15 straight years of being bad to mediocre football. Sure, nobody is mistaking us for FSU, but at least everyone knows who we are, which is better than most schools with similar records.

Look at our rival, JHU. Their biggest contribution, and to the best of my knowledge, the biggest contribution in American higher ed history was from a guy who jumped from electrical engineering at JHU to HBS and the business world, where he made his fortune. Without him JHU, the #1 research school in the nation, would be over $1,000,000,000 poorer.

Hard sciences are nice to have, but soft sciences are crucial. mandate/mission statement aside, research is not the end all, be all.

 

[tipphill]

I strongly disagree. Soft sciences drive money and publicity. Hard sciences drive research funding (i.e. restricted to research). Research in and of itself is not especially important for a private university. Cash isn't. We're in the business of educating students, not creating public goods.

To see the power of soft sciences, look at the following examples:

Look at the advantage that the U of Alabama has when it comes to state politics in Alabama, even when compared to Auburn (see UAB). Much of that is driven by their law school. The state government is systematically stacked in their favor.

Since this is a SU sports board, look at the contributions that Newhouse's ESPN connections have made to keeping SU relevant, despite 15 straight years of being bad to mediocre football. Sure, nobody is mistaking us for FSU, but at least everyone knows who we are, which is better than most schools with similar records.

Look at our rival, JHU. Their biggest contribution, and to the best of my knowledge, the biggest contribution in American higher ed history was from a guy who jumped from electrical engineering at JHU to HBS and the business world, where he made his fortune. Without him JHU, the #1 research school in the nation, would be over $1,000,000,000 poorer.

Hard sciences are nice to have, but soft sciences are crucial. mandate/mission statement aside, research is not the end all, be all.

seriously, jhu, our rival??we are in the business of a prestigious university and attracting high level applicants, ----we are not even a rival with a nys state school!!! i assume your comment applies to james madis0n and not johns hopkins. by the way, your comment on FUNDING,speaks volumes. cash means a lot ---you must be from academia

 

[nzm136]

seriously, jhu, our rival??we are in the business of a prestigious university and attracting high level applicants, ----we are not even a rival with a nys state school!!! i assume your comment applies to james madis0n and not johns hopkins. by the way, your comment on FUNDING,speaks volumes. cash means a lot ---you must be from academia

So JHU means James Madison University in your world, a school that has 0 history with SU, and not Syracuse's biggest lax rival Johns Hopkins University? Wow.

And money with strings attached that prevent the money from being used in academics (i.e. funding from research grants), is not worth anywhere close to as much as money with no strings attached. That's literally taught in Econ 101, but beyond that, it's really, really intuitive.

The rest of your post was incomprehensible. I'm not sure what JHU being a non-NY school has to do with anything. I guess schools like OSU and Michigan aren't tivals in your world, because they're from different states. The same goes with ND and USC, ND and Miami, BD and Nebraska, ND and Michigan, Wisconsin and Minnesota, Wisconsin and Iowa, Tennessee and Florida, Tennessee and Alabama, SU and PSU, SU and BC, SU and Georgetown, SU and Villanova, etc.

 

[TexanMark]

I don't see either JHU or JMU as SU's peer academically. JHU is the archrival rival in Lax.

 

[Ottoble]

$700 psf seems ridiculous especially in upstate NY.

Yeah that's nuts for CNY. I know its an academic building but Ive designed very high cost buildings for less than that.

 

[Ottoble]

She can come back as a visitor.

Not without proper SUCOL ID you know those security protocols.