Our ball, 4th and 1 from CMU 41, 2:16 left

[Eric15]

I'm sure that when Shafer coined the "hardnosed" verbiage he wasn't envisioning his 5th string walk-on QB taking meaningful snaps.

It's just a hand-off, though.

 

[orangepassion]

Don't get me started. Overall, I like Shafer, but his conservative nature on 4th down on the other teams side of the field drives me nuts. After 2+ years of him, I wasn't surprised. This is him

 

[CusefanATL]

That stupid run play on 3rd and 2 that went nowhere...I was listening on WFAN in Va so it was all a bit spotty.

gotcha. but was also a great play by beirman

 

[jgeorge322]

That makes no sense. They went 90 yards down the field after that punt and scored.

thats a good point, i agree. but you never know. if we didnt get the conversion, they may have scored sooner. we get the ball back and a turnover happens. or, we go quickly three and out. you just never can be sure was my point. hell, if we failed to convert, we may have stopped them and never went into overtime. the situations are totally different.

i probably failed to answer your original question however. i think it was a very close call. my guess is most people rather see more aggressive play calling. now, if they got a better piece of that ball on the punt, i may reconsider

 

[Halfmooncuse]

Hey how bout CMU not going for 2 after the TD! If you were a CMU fan or if SU did this, what do you think reaction would be?

Then again, the way SU's offense was in second half and the way CMU was moving the ball, think their coaches would be pretty confident about an OT win?

 

[Briancuse]

Hey how bout CMU not going for 2 after the TD! If you were a CMU fan or if SU did this, what do you think reaction would be?

Then again, the way SU's offense was in second half and the way CMU was moving the ball, think their coaches would be pretty confident about an OT win?

The way they were moving the ball, and the way we were, going for two would have been a mistake. They had all the momentum.

 

[Nicknack]

Judging by the fact we won, it appears correct call was made.

You could have saved yourself some typing by just responding with "3-0", same insightful logic.

Soooo... following your logic, as long as we win the coaches made all the right calls. Makes sense.

 

[jgeorge322]

Hey how bout CMU not going for 2 after the TD! If you were a CMU fan or if SU did this, what do you think reaction would be?

Then again, the way SU's offense was in second half and the way CMU was moving the ball, think their coaches would be pretty confident about an OT win?

i admittedly was nervous cmu would go for 2.

 

[RF2044]

I've mentioned this multiple times but fully agree. 1 yard to win the game essentially while our defense was clinging to life. If our D was fresh and had defended the pass better maybe I think about it differently but given they weren't either of those I go for it.

If nothing else, hard count the sh** out of them and try and get them to jump vs just taking a delay. If your end result is still a delay of game you at least tried.

I mentioned in the things I want/do not want to see thread prior to the game that I wanted to see winning play calling vs playing not to lose. That call is firmly in the later.

Agree 100%.

 

[CusefanATL]

Hey how bout CMU not going for 2 after the TD! If you were a CMU fan or if SU did this, what do you think reaction would be?

Then again, the way SU's offense was in second half and the way CMU was moving the ball, think their coaches would be pretty confident about an OT win?

did you see our offense in the 2nd half?

CMU absolutely kicks XP and then absolutley kicks FG in OT assuming they will go to 2nd OT at worst.

I think the main point to go for it, was how badly we had played in the 2nd half offensively and defensively. which are the exact reasons that CMU made the right calls.

 

[Eric15]

Hey how bout CMU not going for 2 after the TD!

I disagree, I think it was in their best interest to grind it out and go to OT with us as opposed to putting everything on one play.

 

[Scooch]

In this day and age it's 2 plays to get the ball back to that spot - understanding that we should go for it.

This is where I come to as well.

I get that the O was horrendous in the 2nd half, I really do, but there is practically no better situation to put your offense in than that distance and field position. We were on the CMU 41. Punting does not guarantee anything -- you *could* pin them at the 1, or you *could* get a touch back, or they *could* run it back for a TD.

To me the worst case scenario is that you don't get the first down and your D still has 60 yards to defend against the TD. Honestly, 60 yards, 80 yards, is it *that* big a difference when the upside is that you convert and have a very good chance to end the game?

I mean deciding to punt there means you trust your D much more than your O. But if you trust your D then don't you trust them to defend 60 yards? I just think the logic coaches use in those kind of spots is entirely backwards.

But I've come to accept that this is just Shafer's M.O. I dont' agree, but it is what it is.

 

[Millhouse]

This is where I come to as well.

I get that the O was horrendous in the 2nd half, I really do, but there is practically no better situation to put your offense in than that distance and field position. We were on the CMU 41. Punting does not guarantee anything -- you *could* pin them at the 1, or you *could* get a touch back, or they *could* run it back for a TD.

To me the worst case scenario is that you don't get the first down and your D still has 60 yards to defend against the TD. Honestly, 60 yards, 80 yards, is it *that* big a difference when the upside is that you convert and have a very good chance to end the game.

I mean deciding to punt there means you trust your D much more than your O. But if you trust your D then don't you trust them to defend 60 yards? I just think the logic coaches use in those kind of spots is entirely backwards.

But I've come to accept that this is just Shafer's M.O. I dont' agree, but it is what it is.

in some other thread fjoink talked about the coaching consensus about kickoff returners being so dangerous. but they seem to think punt returners are the least dangerous guys.

 

[Fjoinkay]

in some other thread fjoink talked about the coaching consensus about kickoff returners being so dangerous. but they seem to think punt returners are the least dangerous guys.

Who is fjoink? I like that handle, but I've never seen the post you are referring to.

 

[Scooch]

in some other thread fjoink talked about the coaching consensus about kickoff returners being so dangerous. but they seem to think punt returners are the least dangerous guys.

There's not much logic in it. It's about "feel".

I would like to see Shafer make that decision when he has a QB in the game that he believes in. I don't think that's been the case in 2+ years, honestly. Maybe when Dungey is back healthy we'll see it.

 

[Millhouse]

There's not much logic in it. It's about "feel".

I would like to see Shafer make that decision when he has a QB in the game that he believes in. I don't think that's been the case in 2+ years, honestly. Maybe when Dungey is back healthy we'll see it.

belichick gets this stuff better than anyone and he has the best qb ever and even he gets it wrong. that FG at the end to put them up 8 was a bad call and I was very pleased he did that.

i don't expect much from shafer here, i don't expect him to get it right, I just want him to avoid the terrible marronian blunders. this one was bad but not terrible.

 

[Deano]

I mentioned this in the in game thread but there were two things he could have done if he decided to punt eventually.

1) Ask for a measurement and if you still don't agree with that, you would still have the right to challenge the spot I would think.
2) Act like you are going to go for it and try to draw them off sides. If it doesn't work take the penalty or call a time-out.

 

[Chip]

The way they were moving the ball, and the way we were, going for two would have been a mistake. They had all the momentum.

Yeah. I mean on one hand, they probably figured they could throw to that TE who had turned into Gronk for a day.

But on the other hand, we were a total mess on offense. I mean how many times does a game end after one OT, and the winning team has more yards in OT than the 2nd half?

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah. I mean on one hand, they probably figured they could throw to that TE who had turned into Gronk for a day.

But on the other hand, we were a total mess on offense. I mean how many times does a game end after one OT, and the winning team has more yards in OT than the 2nd half?

i wouldn't have complained if syracuse kicked a FG on the first play of their OT possession.

 

[Briancuse]

Yeah. I mean on one hand, they probably figured they could throw to that TE who had turned into Gronk for a day.

But on the other hand, we were a total mess on offense. I mean how many times does a game end after one OT, and the winning team has more yards in OT than the 2nd half?

Not many teams win games in which they don't get a first down in the 2nd half.

 

[Chip]

i wouldn't have complained if syracuse kicked a FG on the first play of their OT possession.

Or squib kicked to pin them deep.











(someone will think I'm serious).

 

[Millhouse]

Not many teams win games in which they don't get a first down in the 2nd half.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

I mean deciding to punt there means you trust your D much more than your O. But if you trust your D then don't you trust them to defend 60 yards? I just think the logic coaches use in those kind of spots is entirely backwards.

This is the thing I will never understand.

 

[billsin01]

This is where I come to as well.

I get that the O was horrendous in the 2nd half, I really do, but there is practically no better situation to put your offense in than that distance and field position. We were on the CMU 41. Punting does not guarantee anything -- you *could* pin them at the 1, or you *could* get a touch back, or they *could* run it back for a TD.

To me the worst case scenario is that you don't get the first down and your D still has 60 yards to defend against the TD. Honestly, 60 yards, 80 yards, is it *that* big a difference when the upside is that you convert and have a very good chance to end the game?

I mean deciding to punt there means you trust your D much more than your O. But if you trust your D then don't you trust them to defend 60 yards? I just think the logic coaches use in those kind of spots is entirely backwards.

But I've come to accept that this is just Shafer's M.O. I dont' agree, but it is what it is.

I was livid about this decision while watching. I don't feel it's the type of thing where Shafer needs to be fired if they lose or anything of that nature, but I just don't think there's much logic at all for not going for it. If your QB sucks, then at least it's one play to get one yard instead of trying to cover 10 yards in three plays.

If you trust your defense then 60 yards should be enough when all you're trying to do is keep them out of the end zone.

Even if you give up a TD you may end up with enough time to try something on offense which, if it fails, still allows you to punt and trust your defense to get you to OT again.

I don't know. It just reeks of not being able to make quick decisions on the fly or, worse I suppose, simply not being prepared for this type of scenario to pop up in the first place in a close game.

It also obscures the fact that the offensive line and/or play calling was so pitiful in the second half that you couldn't get a first down, let alone muster one drive that could put an FG up on the board. That is a distressing thought. I don't care who you want to blame for it but I don't care what QB you're on depth chart wise, you'd hope your OL and running game could move the ball well enough against a MAC team to at least threaten to move into FG range at some point. Very scary thought, IMO.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Given the situation I would have punted too. You also have to figure in momentum. We get stopped CMU is pumped up and our guys are down.

The bigger issue was not even trying to draw them offsides.