Our ball, 4th and 1 from CMU 41, 2:16 left

[billsin01]

Given the situation I would have punted too. You also have to figure in momentum. We get stopped CMU is pumped up and our guys are down.

The bigger issue was not even trying to draw them offsides.

I disagree to a large extent. I'm not sure momentum could have possibly been more on the side of CMU after they scored to tie it up and then had a great first down play in OT, yet we still won. And if the offense wasn't down after the way they played all half, I'm not sure when they'd get down. I get what you're saying, but I really think you have to take a shot to win the game proactively if you have it.

 

[retro44]

We intentionally got a delay of game penalty and then punted. I actually found this decision much more frustrating than our timeout with 15 seconds left.

With our defense completely exhausted and our inability to stop CMU's offense for most of the day, I was a HUGE advocate of going for it on 4th down in that situation. If it was 2 or 3 yards I punt, but with 1 yard I think cost-benefit it pays to go for it. Others thoughts?

(I'm asking this question because I enjoy debating football strategy, not for the purpose of criticizing the staff).

I sharted a thread yesterday about that,we all knew but the staff that CMU was going to send 10 on that play. There would have a chance to get an off sides even if we were not going to take a delay of game. All you had to do was wait until 1 second left to snap the ball. CMU at the most would have gained was an extra second or two.The punt was tipped as it was. Dumb,dumb,dumb call or stratagy

 

[Millhouse]

Given the situation I would have punted too. You also have to figure in momentum. We get stopped CMU is pumped up and our guys are down.

The bigger issue was not even trying to draw them offsides.

CMU might've gotten pumped up and our guys might've gotten down over the decision to punt

 

[Fjoinkay]

The SU defense was playing bend and don't break the entire game. If SU goes for it there on 4th down and comes up short, then CMU has pretty good field position. It's not like SU has a big FB on the roster, and with the backup QBs taking the snaps in that situation I'm okay with the punt. After the punt, CMU moved down the field, but they had to score on a 4th down hail mary attempt. I think it was a good call to punt, but I hope in the future SU will be in a better position to go for it.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

It just reeks of not being able to make quick decisions on the fly or, worse I suppose, simply not being prepared for this type of scenario to pop up in the first place in a close game.

I don't think it's that. I think Shafer just prefers having his defense on the field. Unless the offense is cruising, he wants his defense out there. He believes his defense can handle all kinds of adversity, and his offense can't handle any.:noidea:

 

[donniesyracuse]

You go for it. The only reason there are arguments over it is that we have watched coaches make the wrong decision for sixty years. We have been conditioned to believe field position is more important than possession and that following probabilities is risky behavior.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

You go for it. The only reason there are arguments over it is that we have watched coaches make the wrong decision for sixty years. We have been conditioned to believe field position is more important than possession and that following probabilities is risky behavior.

POST OF THE YEAR

 

[Millhouse]

The SU defense was playing bend and don't break the entire game. If SU goes for it there on 4th down and comes up short, then CMU has pretty good field position. It's not like SU has a big FBi on the roster, and with the backup QBs taking the snaps in that situation I'm okay with the punt . After the punt, CMU moved down the field, but they had to score on a 4th down hail mary attempt. I think it was a good call to puntt, but I hope in the future SU will be in a better position to go for it.

it was third down

 

[Fjoinkay]

it was third down

Ok, very little time left on the clock after a sack? They were backed up. They had to throw a hail mary as I recall it. Btw, who is Fjoink? Its not the guy Chip you were referring to in a different thread is it?

 

[Millhouse]

Ok, very little time left on the clock after a sack? They were backed up. They had to throw a hail mary as I recall it. Btw, who is Fjoink? Its not the guy Chip you were referring to in a different thread is it?

if we didn't call time out, it would've been their last play

but our guys don't know where to go for a short hail mary so we gave them the option to not throw into the end zone which of course made it easier for them to throw in the end zone

 

[Fjoinkay]

if we didn't call time out, it would've been their last play

but our guys don't know where to go for a short hail mary so we gave them the option to not throw into the end zone which of course made it easier for them to throw in the end zone

Yeah, the play needed to be better defended for sure. Fjoink??

 

[donniesyracuse]

They had to throw a hail mary as I recall it.

"Hail mary" is a mischaracterization of the play in my opinion. Based on my recollection the QB made a good pass to a targeted receiver.

 

[Fjoinkay]

Yeah, I almost didn't use that characterization. Although, CMU did have two receivers bunched together like you often see on a hail mary attempt.

 

[Doc5120]

I sharted a thread yesterday about that,we all knew but the staff that CMU was going to send 10 on that play. There would have a chance to get an off sides even if we were not going to take a delay of game. All you had to do was wait until 1 second left to snap the ball. CMU at the most would have gained was an extra second or two.The punt was tipped as it was. Dumb,dumb,dumb call or stratagy

Not sure I'd brag about that.

But I do agree with your point. At least try and draw them offsides!

 

[Scooch]

Given the situation I would have punted too. You also have to figure in momentum. We get stopped CMU is pumped up and our guys are down. The bigger issue was not even trying to draw them offsides.

Momentum is for losers.

Seriously, that's such a vague thing to worry about. Maybe punting signals to your team that you're scared to death. Maybe you just crippled the fragile ego of your offense because you don't believe they can get 1 yard. Maybe the D slumps their shoulders at having to get back in the field, yet again, with no rest and the game on the line.

I mean you can play the momentum thing out ad infinitum and its all conjecture.

 

[NineOneSeven]

"Hail mary" is a mischaracterization of the play in my opinion. Based on my recollection the QB made a good pass to a targeted receiver.

This was covered in a thread already but no, not close to a Hail Mary. Nebraska lost on a hail
Mary.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Momentum is for losers.

Seriously, that's such a vague thing to worry about. Maybe punting signals to your team that you're scared to death. Maybe you just crippled the fragile ego of your offense because you don't believe they can get 1 yard. Maybe the D slumps their shoulders at having to get back in the field, yet again, with no rest and the game on the line.

I mean you can play the momentum thing out ad infinitum and its all conjecture.

Momentum is much more prominent in basketball where it's a game of runs.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

I almost lost a game of runs this morning

 

[Scooch]

I was livid about this decision while watching. I don't feel it's the type of thing where Shafer needs to be fired if they lose or anything of that nature, but I just don't think there's much logic at all for not going for it. If your QB sucks, then at least it's one play to get one yard instead of trying to cover 10 yards in three plays. If you trust your defense then 60 yards should be enough when all you're trying to do is keep them out of the end zone. Even if you give up a TD you may end up with enough time to try something on offense which, if it fails, still allows you to punt and trust your defense to get you to OT again. I don't know. It just reeks of not being able to make quick decisions on the fly or, worse I suppose, simply not being prepared for this type of scenario to pop up in the first place in a close game. It also obscures the fact that the offensive line and/or play calling was so pitiful in the second half that you couldn't get a first down, let alone muster one drive that could put an FG up on the board. That is a distressing thought. I don't care who you want to blame for it but I don't care what QB you're on depth chart wise, you'd hope your OL and running game could move the ball well enough against a MAC team to at least threaten to move into FG range at some point. Very scary thought, IMO.

We're in agreement but I don't pin it on inability to make a decision or poor preparation. Its about Shafer's underlying philosophy.

It's abundantly clear that Shafer is incredibly conservative in those situations. He prefers his D to be on the field.

It's maddening to me because his philosophy prioritizes prolonging the chance to lose over seizing the chance to win.

But he's not alone. Sadly, I do think he's falling behind the curve though.

 

[K Otto XLIV]

Momentum is for losers.

Seriously, that's such a vague thing to worry about. Maybe punting signals to your team that you're scared to death. Maybe you just crippled the fragile ego of your offense because you don't believe they can get 1 yard. Maybe the D slumps their shoulders at having to get back in the field, yet again, with no rest and the game on the line.

I mean you can play the momentum thing out ad infinitum and its all conjecture.

Personally I think there is a psychology to sports and a human element, which makes it impossible to rely on stats and probability alone. In the college game IMO it is an even bigger factor. There is a lot more variance. I really don't think momentum exists in the NFL. Thus I think those coaches should be more aggressive. Normally I am on the side of going for it. For our situation I think it was ok either way. I don't think it was a no brainer.

 

[Ozcuse]

I almost lost a game of runs this morning

In the Game of Runs you win or you poop your pants.

 

[OrangeAggieArmy]

VICTORY!

 

[Scooch]

Personally I think there is a psychology to sports and a human element, which makes it impossible to rely on stats and probability alone. In the college game IMO it is an even bigger factor. There is a lot more variance. I really don't think momentum exists in the NFL. Thus I think those coaches should be more aggressive. Normally I am on the side of going for it. For our situation I think it was ok either way. I don't think it was a no brainer.

Of course there is, I'm not denying that. And I'm not demanding Shafer being fired over it, or some nonsense like that. I just wish he went for it. I think he could have created some momentum, instead of letting it control us.

 

[retro44]

If we were to have lost the game this thread would have much more meaning to it.