Our bigs...

[Ghost]

What exactly are you disagreeing with? You think that Rak has demonstrated consistent offensive production?

Do you think that he's playing appreciably better than he was last season? We've seen many examples in recent years of big men making a tremendous stride forward with their contributions during their second seasons--do you think that Rak is any further along the developmental curve than he was last season? Adjusting for additional minutes, he isn't providing much more than he did last year.

Sorry, I just don't see the growth that people are pointing to from Rak.

You'll get no argument from me that we need more from the inside players--I just don't think this crew is capable of getting it done on a consistent basis.

Yes.

I feel like some of the criticism of Rak is the equivalent of asking why the walk-ons don't score more in the first half tbh.

I can't even begin to count the number of times he posts up and BT and MCW simply don't make the pass. I'm not sure if they're delusional to the point of thinking they're incredibly efficient scorers - but I just don't see why they don't throw the ball inside - if for no other reason to get it kicked back out.

I'm not saying I've seen tremendous growth, but I did see enough early in the year to think getting those two the ball MAY have paid long-term dividends. Instead they get pulled at every tiny mistake, and are avoided like the plague on offense - and in favor of what? That's the gist of my problem - CJ is the only consistent, efficient scorer on the team...so why no touches?

I think the guards are hampering the progress of the inside players - not the other way around.

 

[SoBeCuse]

We just don't know what is happening in practice. One of two scenarios likely.

-Guards are feeding the post and the big guys are turning it over or can't do anything. Trust is lost.
-Practices and gameplans are implemented not using them. Designing and running plays for others.

We probably need a real bigs coach and need to recruit Cs with a better skillset. I know those are the real blue chip guys but we got lucky with AO and Rick to a certain degree.

 

[SUFan44]

Are killing us. Hard to play 4-on-5 On the offensive end. Gtown guarded the perimeter and doubled our wings with their "5". Until we get an offensive threat down low we are going to struggle to score if we don't get transition hoops.

Dajuan is the key. We don't need much, but enough to make teams pay for cheating off our "5".

F gtown.

Meh, I usually agree with 99.9% of the posts you have but I disagree on this one. While I don't think Christmas, Keita or Coleman have been worldbeaters down low, they also need an opportunity.

I don't buy the "if they had shown something, they would be getting the ball more" theory, either. How many three-pointers did Southerland/Triche chuck up with 30 seconds on the shot clock? How many bad shots did both of those guys take yesterday?

I'd rather spend 35 seconds trying to get a good shot and turn the ball over than take a horrible shot, allow a team to get a rebound and go on a fast break, which is what happened numerous times yesterday.

 

[tbonezone]

"need to recruit Cs with a better skillset."

too greedy. we already recruit the top 5 star bigs. the question quickly becomes can we develop and deploy these guys.

 

[RF2044]

"need to recruit Cs with a better skillset."

too greedy. we already recruit the top 5 star bigs. the question quickly becomes can we develop and deploy these guys.

Nothing against Hopkins--I think [hope] he's going to be the right choice to succeed Boeheim.

But I wouldn't mind having a dedicated big man coach.

 

[20Plus]

I agree with a lot of what you say except that Grant will be an effective low post scorer (meaning, he establishes position down there).

He strikes me more of growing into Kris Joseph when he was a dribble driver first and not a jump shooter (meaning the sophomore version of KJ).

Really Jermey Grant comparison with KJ
ummmm no!!!
Grant is going to be a higher level athlete and not settle away from contact

 

[Fly Rodder]

I've been one saying Rak could be gone this year, but I never said NBA. I just thought he was done with Syracuse.

A lot if people were dreaming on Coleman being an impact Frosh due to his scouting report and size/athleticism. They do happen, but he ain't one. I think both he and Rak will improve.

I'm starting to worry about the back court next season after the two best Gs leave.

 

[RF2044]

Meh, I usually agree with 99.9% of the posts you have but I disagree on this one. While I don't think Christmas, Keita or Coleman have been worldbeaters down low, they also need an opportunity.

I don't buy the "if they had shown something, they would be getting the ball more" theory, either. How many three-pointers did Southerland/Triche chuck up with 30 seconds on the shot clock? How many bad shots did both of those guys take yesterday?.

If the bigs were capable of providing any consistent offensive production down low, they'd be doing it. The guards certainly deserve some level of blame for doing a poor job of feeding the post [which is similar to most years here at SU, by the way]. But I think people have unrealistic expectations for what the trio of bigs are capable of delivering if they get the ball down there.

Coleman was our best bet to provide some inside scoring, and yet he's spent most of the season looking tentative and overmatched once he catches the ball. I've never seen a big get his shot blocked so often, when he should be able to get a body on the defender and use his size / body control to devastating effect.

Something is just off with Rak. The physical tools are there, and he's shown glimpses of having some raw offensive ability. But his issues go way beyond just not getting the ball enough. I'm really starting to doubt whether the light is ever going to come on for this kid. Hate to say it, but it wouldn't remotely surprise me to see this kid "lapped" next year with both Coleman / Grant making the sophomore jump, and both starting at the power positions.

I'd rather spend 35 seconds trying to get a good shot and turn the ball over than take a horrible shot, allow a team to get a rebound and go on a fast break, which is what happened numerous times yesterday.

Now, this I agree with. I really wish JB would pull guys more for taking bad shots. I get that he is a confidence guy, and that he gives the green light to players that he's confident in, but when Tiche / Southerland continued to take 27+ foot jumpers unnecessarily, I would have pulled their a$$e$ to set the tone for the rest of the team.

Very frustrating to see how poorly we executed our half court offense yesterday. It was almost like Georgetown played a modified 3-2 zone [although some of that was based upon how our spacing with where MCW - Triche - Southerland were playing], because they could completely ignore us being able to score inside.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

It was almost like Georgetown played a modified 3-2 zone [although some of that was based upon how our spacing with where MCW - Triche - Southerland were playing], because they could completely ignore us being able to score inside.

It was definitely a 3-2 and we couldn't take advantage of it at all. It's just crazy that Southerland is 6'8" and he's parked all day 30 feet from the basket. MCW is 6'6" and he is 30 feet from the basket and BT is 6'4" and he is 30 feet from the basket. When we got the ball to CJ and he could go left, he could score at will. Very frustrating when we have such a height advantage and don't use it.

 

[tbonezone]

"But I wouldn't mind having a dedicated big man coach."


hear!hear! and one more brief thought about the mooseman.not sure exactly what expectations are being placed on him. he's our 3rd string center! a very capable backup. always hustles. has come up big a few times. so you want all BE?

 

[Stevenson]

We don't have any bigs

 

[Bayside44]

Are killing us. Hard to play 4-on-5 On the offensive end. Gtown guarded the perimeter and doubled our wings with their "5". Until we get an offensive threat down low we are going to struggle to score if we don't get transition hoops.

Dajuan is the key. We don't need much, but enough to make teams pay for cheating off our "5".

F gtown.

Thank you.

 

[OttoMets]

If the bigs were capable of providing any consistent offensive production down low, they'd be doing it. The guards certainly deserve some level of blame for doing a poor job of feeding the post [which is similar to most years here at SU, by the way]. But I think people have unrealistic expectations for what the trio of bigs are capable of delivering if they get the ball down there.

...

Real question: how do you regard the Notre Dame and Providence games?

Through 27 games, those are the two times Christmas has taken eight or more shots in a game.

(Probably goes without saying, given my posting history, but I think that's evidence that Rakeem can provide consistent offensive production. His lack of intensity will likely always be a limitation, but lack of touches and Boeheim's knee-jerk handling of minutes are the only two things keeping him from scoring 8 to 10 a night.)

 

[Bayside44]

Real question: how do you regard the Notre Dame and Providence games?

Through 27 games, those are the two times Christmas has taken eight or more shots in a game.

(Probably goes without saying, given my posting history, but I think that's evidence that Rakeem can provide consistent offensive production. His lack of intensity will likely always be a limitation, but lack of touches and Boeheim's knee-jerk handling of minutes are the only two things keeping him from scoring 8 to 10 a night.)

Notre Dame runs up and down the floor more than Georgetown...we barely had touches in te 2nd half, and our guards practice with our bigs, they would dump it down there if they knew it would work.

To answer another post in this thread, our guards were bombing from deep because the Georgetown defense met us there. This game has moved a long way away from the days of centers beating the crap outta each other down low.

 

[anomander]

So even if our centers combined for 10 and 10 yesterday we would still have lost. Same with Uconn, and Pitt. It didn't matter in either of those games if they gave you 10 and 10. They didn't go 4-20 from 3 yesterday, or 4-23 vs uconn from 3. Plenty of teams gets by with no post men. The position is on the brink of extinction. Our teams goes how the guards go. When Brandon is hitting 3's, or scoring off the dribble we win. When MCW doesn't turn it over, and gets to the foul line we win. These 2 will make or break our season, not a few points and a few rebounds here and there from our 5 position. This makes no sense.

 

[timkay99]

Really Jermey Grant comparison with KJ
ummmm no!!!
Grant is going to be a higher level athlete and not settle away from contact

Sophomore KJ. Not junior and senior KJ who was pretty much a jump shooter.

 

[Bayside44]

So even if our centers combined for 10 and 10 yesterday we would still have lost. Same with Uconn, and Pitt. It didn't matter in either of those games if they gave you 10 and 10. They didn't go 4-20 from 3 yesterday, or 4-23 vs uconn from 3. Plenty of teams gets by with no post men. The position is on the brink of extinction. Our teams goes how the guards go. When Brandon is hitting 3's, or scoring off the dribble we win. When MCW doesn't turn it over, and gets to the foul line we win. These 2 will make or break our season, not a few points and a few rebounds here and there from our 5 position. This makes no sense.

It doesn't matter as much what they go for as much as the defense they draw. When the opposition knows nothing will happen guys like Triche and Southerland shoot it 3 /4 feet further out than normal

 

[anomander]

It doesn't matter as much what they go for as much as the defense they draw. When the opposition knows nothing will happen guys like Triche and Southerland shoot it 3 /4 feet further out than normal

G'town managed with Ayegba, Cincinatti manages with Mbdoj, Louisville manages with Dieng. Hell we managed with Forth. Rak is basically what Fab was last year offensively.

 

[NineOneSeven]

Unless we somehow figure out how to get production from downlow, whether that means the bigs need to improve and work harder or the guards need to get them the ball more, we don't have the shooting consistency to make a run. I think we all agree how vital this is, despite being on opposite reasons WHY. Is that fair?

 

[jgeorge322]

Sophomore KJ. Not junior and senior KJ who was pretty much a jump shooter.

thats what happens when all you do is charge when you drive. if someone taught him to pull up, he couldve been a better player here. he was good but never peaked i felt.

 

[AZOrange]

. Rak is basically what Fab was last year offensively.

Not even close...

 

[anomander]

Not even close...

enlighten me

 

[rosconey]

enlighten me

fab had a baby hook that started to work=that alone is way more than rak-

all the center has to do in the zone is play d and rebound- when these kids cant hold craig forths jock strap- you know your in trouble

 

[SUalldway]

Exactly why Fair had no room to operate as the game went on.

Ayegba impacted the game positively for his team, our 2 centers did not.

 

[anomander]

fab had a baby hook that started to work=that alone is way more than rak-

all the center has to do in the zone is play d and rebound- when these kids cant hold craig forths jock strap- you know your in trouble

I would love to see how many baby hooks fab had last year. It's not that many more then rak has . He caught a few more lobs and that's basically he did and needed to do .