Our Scholarship numbers?

[xc84]

Not exactly but it's not worth the discussion after all this time and is water under the bridge.

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Sure, not "exactly". My understanding directly from a former player is that Marrone brought in players and some he told they would not play. He didn't revoke scholarships. Players, wanting to play, quit and/or transferred. I have heard no player say Marrone revoked a scholarship.

 

[rrlbees]

Sure, not "exactly". My understanding directly from a former player is that Marrone brought in players and some he told they would not play. He didn't revoke scholarships. Players, wanting to play, quit and/or transferred. I have heard no player say Marrone revoked a scholarship.

And I could give you quotes from 7-8 players. Some were asked to leave. It's semantics.

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[xc84]

And I could give you quotes from 7-8 players. Some were asked to leave. It's semantics.

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I am sure you could. But I have seen no quotes from players saying their scholarships were revoked. Have you? If so, please point us to them. I agree, being told they would not play could be translated by a player as "asked to leave". Look at the quote from Jonathon Meldrum. You might say he was "asked to leave"...but he stayed.

 

[rrlbees]

I have seen no quotes from players saying their scholarships were revoked. Have you?

Nope.

 

[ImperialOrange]

Sure, not "exactly". My understanding directly from a former player is that Marrone brought in players and some he told they would not play. He didn't revoke scholarships. Players, wanting to play, quit and/or transferred. I have heard no player say Marrone revoked a scholarship.

I'm still curious how that went down. If that was saying "you'll never play here" or "if you dont improve greatly you'll never play"?

If a player wanted to stay at SU and play wouldn't the correct answer be "with all due respect, I will play here and I will play well". Isn't that the type of response a situation like that is meant to entice?

 

[TDTOrange]

I also believe that is true. There will be a one year exemption. The following year you must be back at 85.

Not quite, if you go over your 85 scholarship limit, you must be that number below it the next year. So say you take 2 and you're at 87, you must be at 83 the following year to even it out.

 

[RF2044]

I'm still curious how that went down. If that was saying "you'll never play here" or "if you dont improve greatly you'll never play"?

If a player wanted to stay at SU and play wouldn't the correct answer be "with all due respect, I will play here and I will play well". Isn't that the type of response a situation like that is meant to entice?

I don't have an issue with the coaching staff leveling with players they inherit. Most new coaches clean house to a degree. Marrone came in and instituted a new culture, requiring a different level of commitment from players who didn't necessarily sign up for that with the previous coaching staff. Some opted out.

In fact, the majority of them opted out on or around spring practice, after getting a taste of what playing under Marrone would be like. To me, that's qualitatively different than being informed that their scholarships were revoked.

 

[RF2044]

Not quite, if you go over your 85 scholarship limit, you must be that number below it the next year. So say you take 2 and you're at 87, you must be at 83 the following year to even it out.

Interesting--hadn't heard that before.

 

[rrlbees]

I don't have an issue with the coaching staff leveling with players they inherit. Most new coaches clean house to a degree. Marrone came in and instituted a new culture, requiring a different level of commitment from players who didn't necessarily sign up for that with the previous coaching staff. Some opted out.

In fact, the majority of them opted out on or around spring practice, after getting a taste of what playing under Marrone would be like. To me, that's qualitatively different than being informed that their scholarships were revoked.

Don't confuse those who opted out as you call it and those who were told to leave.

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[rrlbees]

Not quite, if you go over your 85 scholarship limit, you must be that number below it the next year. So say you take 2 and you're at 87, you must be at 83 the following year to even it out.

You sure about that? Where was that said?

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[RF2044]

Don't confuse those who opted out as you call it and those who were told to leave.

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I don't have any insider info on this, but the lone player I remember being told to leave was Lamar Middleton, apparently based upon more than one issue [fair or unfair]. I don't remember any others being explicitly told to leave. Were there others?

Seems to me that the majority of those that left opted out after experiencing what spring practice would be like under the new coaching staff.

Edit: I DO think that it happened with our recruiting class that year. The coaches told several of the [few] prospects we had lined up that they wouldn't be given a scholarship and to look elsewhere, while others were retained.

 

[007]

Not quite, if you go over your 85 scholarship limit, you must be that number below it the next year. So say you take 2 and you're at 87, you must be at 83 the following year to even it out.

I am not sure how that math would work out or where you read that. Do you have a link?

If you are allowed to go over the limit, for example, by 2 and you must be back at 85 the following year, doesn't that equate to signing two less players then you otherwise could have next year for a net gain of zero?

 

[rrlbees]

I don't have any insider info on this, but the lone player I remember being told to leave was Lamar Middleton, apparently based upon more than one issue [fair or unfair]. I don't remember any others being explicitly told to leave. Were there others?

Seems to me that the majority of those that left opted out after experiencing what spring practice would be like under the new coaching staff.

Edit: I DO think that it happened with our recruiting class that year. The coaches told several of the [few] prospects we had lined up that they wouldn't be given a scholarship and to look elsewhere, while others were retained.

Yes, several.

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[GoSU96]

Don't confuse those who opted out as you call it and those who were told to leave.

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If you are talking about guys with a 5th year remaining who have their degrees, what's wrong with not asking them back for a fifth?

Are you talking about Middleton, because it had nothing to do with on field stuff.

 

[TDTOrange]

You sure about that? Where was that said?

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Read it on Twitter from a number of college football writers/insiders. I think John Infante said it too, and he is a pretty reliable source on NCAA by-law issues. He apparently runs a blog about NCAA by-laws, etc. I just started following him before yesterday's announcement.

I think it makes sense, if you're over your maximum scholarship limit by taking PSU refugees (no matter how many years of eligibility they have left), you should have to be that much below the 85 maximum the next year by taking less freshman. It wouldn't be a fair situation for one school to get like 10 PSU transfers and have no ramifications on the max scholarship limit.

 

[RF2044]

Yes, several.

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Such as? And was it the situation described by GO above [i.e., fifth year seniors who aren't contributors being asked to take their degrees and move on]?

 

[rrlbees]

Such as? And was it the situation described by GO above [i.e., fifth year seniors who aren't contributors being asked to take their degrees and move on]?

No and not going to discuss further.

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[RF2044]

No and not going to discuss further.

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Fair enough. And I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative about this, but it doesn't seem like anyone in this thread has the same perspective on it that you do--not sure what that means in terms of what actually transpired.

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Here's what the NCAA is saying about PSU transfers
"If a student-athlete transfers for the fall of 2012 to a school that has reached its scholarship limits, the school may exceed these numbers for the 2012-13 academic year, provided it reduces such limits proportionately in the 2013-14 academic year. For example, if one student-athlete transfers to a Division I school already at the legislated limits of 25 initial counters and 85 overall counters for 2012-13, the school will be limited to 24 initial counters and 84 overall counters in 2013-14."

 

[SUFaninNJ]

Here's the link if anyone is curious
http://www.ncaa.org/wps/wcm/connect/public/NCAA/20120723/21207234

 

[ImperialOrange]

Here's what the NCAA is saying about PSU transfers
"If a student-athlete transfers for the fall of 2012 to a school that has reached its scholarship limits, the school may exceed these numbers for the 2012-13 academic year, provided it reduces such limits proportionately in the 2013-14 academic year. For example, if one student-athlete transfers to a Division I school already at the legislated limits of 25 initial counters and 85 overall counters for 2012-13, the school will be limited to 24 initial counters and 84 overall counters in 2013-14."

Not sure how that affects us though being that we didn't take 25 players this past recruiting class and are only at 83 total players to date. We could put 2 on scholarship immediately and not need the 1 year over recruiting exemption.

More likely a deterant for schools that have 29 commits every year and then give scholies to 25 and ask the others the grey shirt. Pretty much means they can't rip a scholie from an incoming Frosh to take a PSU transfer instead if theyve already used all their scholies. Smart on the NCAA to put that stipulation in there actually.

At least thats how I read it.

 

[tep624]

I don't have any insider info on this, but the lone player I remember being told to leave was Lamar Middleton, apparently based upon more than one issue [fair or unfair]. I don't remember any others being explicitly told to leave. Were there others?

Seems to me that the majority of those that left opted out after experiencing what spring practice would be like under the new coaching staff.

Edit: I DO think that it happened with our recruiting class that year. The coaches told several of the [few] prospects we had lined up that they wouldn't be given a scholarship and to look elsewhere, while others were retained.

It definitely happened with the recruiting class. When Marrone walked in the door, he had 6 commits - although the JUCO QB from Illinois who's name I can't remember technically committed while there was no coaching staff, so I don't think not honoring that can be held against him. Leavander Jones and Raheem Cardwell weren't retained as well - all 3 ended up at 1AA schools, where they probably belonged to begin with.

Ironically though, of the 3 recruits retained, 2 turned out pretty damn good - Justin Pugh and Alec Lemon.

 

[rrlbees]

Fair enough. And I'm certainly not trying to be argumentative about this, but it doesn't seem like anyone in this thread has the same perspective on it that you do--not sure what that means in terms of what actually transpired.

Some people like to forget things.

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[xc84]

Don't confuse those who opted out as you call it and those who were told to leave.

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Don't confuse those who were told to leave with those who had been told they no longer had scholarships. At this writing, I have heard of no player claim he was told his scholarship was revoked. Sure, it would suck to practice every day and know you would not play but some players stuck it out. Some "opted" to leave.

 

[rrlbees]

Don't confuse those who were told to leave with those who had been told they no longer had scholarships. At this writing, I have heard of no player claim he was told his scholarship was revoked. Sure, it would suck to practice every day and know you would not play but some players stuck it out. Some "opted" to leave.

Word it any way you want. I know what happened to 7-8 players.

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