Paying student athletes...what's the answer?

[orangenirvana]

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You must have responded to the wrong person. I never used the term "level the playing field."
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It would be the same advantage at worst. Maybe if they put in some sort of a salary cap it would lessen that.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Not entirely true. Pro sports have salary caps and other restrictions and you don’t see franchises paying atheletes and their agents extra hush money under the table. I think payment of some kind, maybe a share of NCAA tourney, and getting rid of 1 and done would lessen a lot of this underground market, even if it doesn’t eliminate it entirely.

Teams have been in fact caught doing this

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

I wanted to add this to the big thread about the corruption in college hoops, but felt maybe it is worthy of a new discussion. If this belongs better in that thread, that's fine, please move it. Anyhow...

Does anybody have a logical solution to fairly paying athletes that doesn't completely destroy college athletics? This seems like such a convoluted mess with so many facets, that I'm not even sure what the answer is.

If you give every basketball player, say, $20K cash a year, you have to pay women's athletes the same, no? If you pay an entire football team, what about the soccer and field hockey teams? Won't there be Title IX issues?

If schools are to pay athletes in the prominent sports, how quickly will they get rid of pretty much every other sport they legally can, or at least get rid of the scholarships associated with them? Keep football and men's hoops, along with women's hoops and whatever other programs reach Title IX compliance, but won't you see schools dump the other men's teams? It won't be that drastic, necessarily, but for some schools trying to keep up, maybe it will be.

If you allow kids to profit off their image, where does that end? I think this is where kids should get paid, at least something, but I think it would get sticky pretty quickly. You'll have Kentucky boosters giving kids $250K for signing a jersey (assuming that isn't happening already, which I'm sure it probably is). You'll quickly get a division between the haves and have nots. Big state schools with a deep pool of boosters will always have a significant advantage in this. Maybe that's fair, maybe it's not. But will you see programs like Butler, Wichita St, Uconn, St Mary's, etc keep up in any way?

Maybe allow kids to profit off their likeness, but the money goes into a trust? Maybe they have to graduate to get the full amount? I don't know what the solution is because I think this will lead to huge problems for schools that aren't big money makers. Syracuse basketball should be fine, but what about football?

Academic bonuses?

Higher pay outs for upperclassmen?

Will boosters or the schools not pay a kid to push him out and force a transfer?

Pay kids out based on NCAA Tourney results or bowl wins?

I'm curious what other people see as the solution...

Let the NBA draft players at any time and give them $$, but keep them in college for up to 4 years. (Maybe put part in a trust. Let them buy a house and a car or 2.) The NBA can retain their rights. Each year of school is half year on pension and free agency. Get a college degree, and make an NBA roster and the NBA provides a $1,000,000 bonus.

 

[billsin01]

Don't. Keep it the way it is. Suspend or kick out people that break the rules (or maybe a simplified version of the rules). Let the kids work in their off season. If the education and off season part time job is not enough because of someone's financial situation then let them attempt to find someone to pay them to play their sport some where else. Could be some good life lessons about how life is not always fair and competition is not about a participation trophy.

I'm not worried about a participation story. I have three boys, one has down syndrome, one's a bit of an athlete and one struggles with coordination and processing what is happening out there on a basketball court or a playing field. I know this isn't the discussion currently, but there's really nothing wrong with giving a kid a trophy for putting in the effort even if they lack the ability, especially considering the physical exercise is vital for their health and the idea of being part of a team is a valuable developmental tool. Not sure why people care so much about this.

But, I digress. Your point is a valid one. I think people drastically overrate these kids' actual market value. Don't forget that a big part of their value is tied to the brand these schools have created. How may people in this country can name one high school basketball player? Even casual college hoops fans? Us diehards and live and die with the whims of a 16-year-old but most of the world does not. A kid like Marvin Bagley III might have been plenty good enough to be a key rotation piece in the NBA last year at this time -- but most of the world didn't know who the hell he was b/c he didn't have the D on his chest and a bunch of talking heads raving about how great he is.

Get rid of one-and-done and let kids go whenever the heck they want. Otherwise, take advantage not only of an exceedingly valuable scholarship that, if you complete a degree, guarantees you increased career earnings (in most cases) and the opportunity to get the education in the first place. Even if they cheat their way through, these kids come out ahead.

I honestly don't think it's all that difficult. Will there still be cheating and dirty money? Yes, no way around that. But it absolutely answers the question of any sort of exploitation and puts the onus on the professional leagues to develop a more robust farm system.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

A) it's the in the agreement between the professional players and their professional sports organization; B) HS baseball players can either be drafted out of HS and can either accept a contract and play in the minor leagues OR go to college and play there, BUT they are not eligible to be drafted for three years. They can't do both. Hockey, I don't know, but that's not my department.

In baseball, there was a loophole to transfer to a community college and then get drafted as a soph. Might have changed, but Alex Fernandez did it.

 

[SBU72]

There are some points that have been ignored. The most major one is Title nine, which basically means women sports get the same as mens sports. So if pay b-ball and -ball players then an equal number of women atheletes must be paid. A good point I heard was how would U-Conn women's b-ball respond if the men got paid and they didn't! In todays world where women are pushing for equal rights on everything this has to be a MAJOR consideration. Another consideration is this discussion on how b-ball players are employees because they have required work to do. What about all the other students who get a scholarship of one kind or another? Musicans may get a scholarship and have to play in the band but they are allowed to form their own band a play professionally. A wiz kid might get a science scholarship but can sell games. As mentioned, other sports schollarship kids get to hold jobs with no penality. All these (and more!) have to be examined before the #1 recruit gets 1 more dime than the other 1000's getting a full or partiall full education!

 

[RandygoCuse]

Didn't read every post but here's mine.

Create a separate division for football and mens basketball. Call D-1 Premier or something. Some schools would be in the conference for both football and basketball, while others may only be basketball. Personally, I'd start with the Power 5 (plus a few others) for football. Maybe add conferences like the Big East and American for basketball. I also wouldn't object to leaving the NCAA and creating a new organization.

Let players do endorsements and loosen up other restrictions. Fewer limits on practice and maybe they don't even have to red shirt if they want to switch to another school in the division. Consider a stipend though I don't want it to affect tuition. Maybe the money comes from the NCAA (or whatever the governing body is) instead of the school. Figure out how academics fit it. Perhaps they don't have to be full time students or they take classes tailored toward athletes (coaching, team management etc). I certainly wouldn't restrict true student athletes, but I would ease the requirements that are in place now.

This division would be hard to enter. A committee would review to ensure the school has the resources to compete. I don't want another UMass 1A football situation. Schools that aren't in the division can take more of a D2 or D3 approach. Kids would still get full scholarships, but they could focus on being student athletes and Smaller Private School doesn't feel like they have to try to keep up with Huge State U.

 

[cliftonparksufan]

In baseball, there was a loophole to transfer to a community college and then get drafted as a soph. Might have changed, but Alex Fernandez did it.

Baseball players could theoretically be drafted six times. Not sure it has ever happened but the rules allow it.
A player who goes to a junior college can be drafted at the end of any year of their junior college career. So conceivably, a player can be drafted in high school, after a freshman year at a junior college, again after their sophomore season at a junior college, then after a redshirt year at a Division I school, again after their redshirt junior season and then after their senior season.
The MLB Draft Is Dramatically Different From NBA, NFL Drafts | BaseballAmerica.com

 

[jncuse]

Where would all these Division 1 Football and Basketball Coaches go to make millions if there was no P5 and NCAA sports. There would not be jobs for the majority of them.

There goes the market value theory.

 

[billsin01]

I don’t know brutha. It’s not like there’s a ceremony where everyone dresses in academic robes and the medal is carefully taken off a pillow and bestowed upon the kids head and then their name is emblazoned upon a wall of fame.

It’s literally, ‘hey Tommy. Nice season. Keep working on that footwork. Here’s your medal.’ The idea that that has become some symbol of an entire generation’s issues is so farcical and absurd it’s hard to fathom.

 

[SBU72]

Remember that the NCAA is NOT preventing kids from going pro right out of hs, its the NBA/NFL pushed by the players unions who have set those guidelines. Kids are free to go where erver they want to be pros, the NCAA is not stopping them. Here are some draconion rules too force schools to adere to the rules.

Starting on a date any (say 1-1-2019) schools found to bring on an athelete who has been finically influnced to attend said school gets 4 year post season ban (an lose off all revenue during that time) and any player wishing to transfer can do so without the sit out year. Coaches who participate in illegal actions get 4 year ban. Schools are urged to have the same written into the contracts of all emploees or at least the top people. Scholarships are 2 or 3 years in length, a kid leaves after 1 and it still counts against the total untill its done.

Schools are not allowed to finanally benefit from the likeness of it's atheletes, ie jersey sales etc. Atheletes are allowed to work real jobs for reasonable compensation. Refer back to inflence rule for excesses.

ALL NCAA revenue is to be split evenly amoungs all member schools. Last place in weakest conference gets as much as titlt winners.

Watch schools to do a better job of self policing, no more "lack of institutional controlals".

 

[manleyzoo]

In baseball, there was a loophole to transfer to a community college and then get drafted as a soph. Might have changed, but Alex Fernandez did it.

Hasn't changed.

 

[l'orange]

Still, wonder if something like this could work?

Could the NBA and NCAA come to an arrangement? Lets say I am a talented athlete and I declare for the draft because I want to strike while the iron's hot and get a commitment to get paid, BUT I'd really like to continue to develop my athletic and educational abilities in college instead of riding the bench in the NBA or playing in the G-League.

So I declare for the draft and get drafted and I exercise a new "continue college" option, where upon signing I can express to the team that drafted me that I wish to continue college. The team still commits to a contract but a small portion of it is paid to me while I complete/continue college. Meanwhile, we reward and make up the difference to the NBA team with a salary cap write-off. As a bonus, the team that drafted me also gets a more educated player to join their roster at a future date.

 

[pfister1]

As ridiculous as it sounds , a minor league or a Lavar Ball type league is the best way to go.

When and where does this stop? College? HS? Unless it's an open market for these guys there will still be underhanded payments and B.S.

I’m surprised the LaVarr Ball League hasn’t received more play in this discussion. It or a close facsimile run by someone with less baggage is a very real potential solution.

 

[SBU72]

Still, wonder if something like this could work?

Could the NBA and NCAA come to an arrangement? Lets say I am a talented athlete and I declare for the draft because I want to strike while the iron's hot and get a commitment to get paid, BUT I'd really like to continue to develop my athletic and educational abilities in college instead of riding the bench in the NBA or playing in the G-League.

So I declare for the draft and get drafted and I exercise a new "continue college" option, where upon signing I can express to the team that drafted me that I wish to continue college. The team still commits to a contract but a small portion of it is paid to me while I complete/continue college. Meanwhile, we reward and make up the difference to the NBA team with a salary cap write-off. As a bonus, the team that drafted me also gets a more educated player to join their roster at a future date.

Again, its not the NBA its the players union that wants the 1 year rule. Players don't want the competation for roster spots. So how does this benefit them? Also why would a kid want to put up with all the silly college rules like going to class if he doesn't have to? Go to an 8 o'clock class or get up at noon?

 

[Hoo's That]

I’m surprised the LaVarr Ball League hasn’t received more play in this discussion. It or a close facsimile run by someone with less baggage is a very real potential solution.

It hasn't gotten much play because he's involved. But you're 100% right that a "a close facsimile run by someone with less baggage" would be good. Having at least 3 or 4 of those "close facsimiles" would be even better.

 

[jncuse]

Again, its not the NBA its the players union that wants the 1 year rule. Players don't want the competation for roster spots. So how does this benefit them? Also why would a kid want to put up with all the silly college rules like going to class if he doesn't have to? Go to an 8 o'clock class or get up at noon?

The one year rule is on the NBA, Not letting them back after they enter the draft is on the NCAA.

I don't have time for much detail but academic reform for athletes (Kids can go to university, or kids can go less demanding life skills programs) for athletes would make a demotion based system quite plausible. For example in the NHL/Junior Hockey, kids can make the NHL teams but if they don't they must get demoted back to the Junior Hockey team if age eligible, and not the minors.

Not even getting into compensation. But adjust the academic requirements for athletes who choose not to pursue agrees, and many of the shenanigans go away.

People are fooling themselves when they try to equate them with any other person with scholarships. .

Imagine having an interview with a regular student who wants an academic scholarship. Do you like school son? No, I plan on studying as least as possible, and expect you to create the easiest way for me to get by.
Sounds great, you get a scholarship.

 

[orangebabe]

No. Why would you?

You would according to labor laws, because now they are employees, and the universities will run into discrimination issues all over the place. A university is not an employer to students, in fact, that would be a conflict of interest.

Also, as someone else states, by paying them a minuscule amount, there are still going to be those players and coaches who want more and will break the rules/laws, because the NCAA allows it.

The NCAA is the problem, because they are a corrupt organization that turns a blind eye to who they choose to and allows the cheating and breaking of its own rules. It needs to go or be seriously overhauled/revamped.

As someone else stated, college is for higher learning, and college athletics was intended to provide student athletes opportunity to perform an extracurricular activity for fun while getting an education. With all of this bribery and illegal transfer of $, it has become an illegal business where no one pays taxes and bribes are committed.

Eliminate the business by creating a league for the athletes who are not in college for the education or higher learning. This would send the players who want the quick $ to the league and remove them and most of the illegal activity from the universities. Revamp the NCAA with people who will enforce the rules and not just create and allow some to follow and some to break.

Get to the source of the problem which is forcing athletes to attend college and the NCAA's business model.

 

[81South]

Add a winner take all cash payout to the National Champs! Have the cash piled on a table court-side during the title game.