Per twitter no student section for this game

[hungrychuck]

Isn’t that a matter of opinion and like everyone else you are just expressing your personal opinion too? Since no one is willing to wait until the investigation is done to even know all the facts to form a totally informed opinion on the these racial incidents , isn’t it pretty early to even know the best resolutions?

Stop making sense.

 

[cuse522]

Isn’t that a matter of opinion and like everyone else you are just expressing your personal opinion too? Since no one is willing to wait until the investigation is done to even know all the facts to form a totally informed opinion on the these racial incidents , isn’t it pretty early to even know the best resolutions?

Well, we know the facts about how the school administration has handled the incidents. We know the facts about how these students say they feel on campus as a result of the incidents, and about how they say they feel on campus in general. That's enough to form opinions, as many of the facts about what I just mentioned should be unacceptable to the Syracuse University community.

Much of what I posted about is specifically related to takes critical of the student protesters. Regardless of the facts about who is responsible for the graffiti, the swastika, the e-mail to a professor and the manifesto (much of which we may never know), I think it's poor form to be hyper-critical of 18-22 year old kids who are understandable feeling a flood of emotions while absolving a 63-year-old with a law degree, ~40 years of professional experience, ~20 years of experience in high ranking and visible leadership roles and a ~$1M salary. Part of the reason he gets paid the big bucks is to handle situations exactly like this one in the best way for the university and its students. He failed to do so here.

TL;DR cliffs: If Syverud was more transparent, communicated better, made the protesters feel like they were heard from the start and made them feel like he was working with them from the start, this situation would have reached a better resolution for everyone involved with less bad press, regardless of the specifics of the resolution and anyone's political opinions.

 

[cuse522]

And regarding the stuff we don't know yet...

Graffiti incidents: Apparently at least some of them involve specific names. That's extremely unlikely to be a hoax or a false flag, and extremely likely to be a student (the person had access to a dorm, which I assume isn't any easier than when I was a student, and knew specific names).

Swastika in the snow: Also extremely unlikely to be a false flag, but there's at least some chance it was a disgusting hoax/prank and/or not a student, given that it was in a public area. This one wouldn't surprise me a ton if it was a frat prank. Regardless of which of the possibilities it was, the effect on the community until it's figured out is the same and the punishment for whoever did it should be the same (and severe).

Manifesto: It was posted on the SU forum on Greek Rank. The "hoax" part seems to be that it was inaccurately said to have been distributed at Bird Library... but it's unclear whether or not some sort of distribution was attempted. In my opinion this needs to be taken seriously as a safety issue for SU, but it's also extremely unlikely to be a student and extremely likely to be a neo-Nazi or alt-right person online. Most of that stuff is done for the purpose of scaring people for political reasons, but it's still scary and offensive. Just by the sheer magnitude of the planet, it's likely the person was nowhere near SU, but it's also more likely they were from the SU area or connected to it than that they were from any other specific random place... Also, we know that these people sometimes travel long distances to carry out violent acts (such as the El Paso shooting). That's why you take that stuff seriously.

Regardless of what those specific outcomes are, the students have a right to express their opinions and the chancellor is the one who is supposed to have the experience, leadership skills and job to respond in the best way.

 

[hungrychuck]

There is absolutely no basis to ask the chancellor to resign.

Not on this issue, anyway.

He does things other than responding to snow swastikas.

Are we really and truly that lost and lacking for perspective?

 

[cuse522]

There is absolutely no basis to ask the chancellor to resign.

Not on this issue, anyway.

He does things other than responding to snow swastikas.

Are we really and truly that lost and lacking for perspective?

Have I called for his resignation? Certainly not since his response to the 19 demands.

I do defend the protesters right to call for it, although I think there's no way they win that argument if they're calling for it over the three partially met demands. If they're calling for it over his initial response, then I believe they have valid concerns that the Board of Trustees should consider, although I highly doubt he'd end up being forced out and I think they have the tougher side to argue, all things considered.

But I do think he handled this poorly from the start. I also think trying to reduce the whole thing to "snow swastikas" and acting like he has more important and/or urgent matters is an extreme downplay of the situation.

I don't think he has anything more important to do than keep the campus safe, keep the campus FEELING safe, be centered and strong on the university's morals, and uphold the university's public reputation.

 

[cuse522]

How not? How does not knowing about some random graffiti hurt someone?

An racist individual or individuals made a public display of their racism that specifically mentioned minority students by name. The university did not know who did it, how many people were involved, or whether anything else was in the works. Now, I don't know exactly what the graffiti said, so I can't evaluate it beyond that... But on those facts alone, I think people have a right to know that type of person is present and unidentified and to take that into account so that they can decide if they want to do anything differently in their day-to-day. This could be as simple as keeping their dorm room locked to protect personal belongings and/or their safety.

As a white male it's very easy to shrug this off. If I was a student right now, I wouldn't have felt unsafe over that graffiti. But, then, I'm not the one being targeted.

So let's say you don't know about it, so you don't lock your door and someone runs in and steals something or tags your wall, or worse... Now you've been hurt by not knowing. Maybe a student might not want to go to the bathroom alone as a minority in that dormitory, especially a female student, knowing what happened. I think that's a pretty reasonable response.

Logically, I'd argue that anyone who found out about it through the demands of some bitter students, and then decided for whatever reason to give it any weight, would be more troubled by it than if they had not known and had gone on living their life as they intended without rabble rousers trying to instill fear in them.

Well, sure, now that nothing else has happened in connection to the graffiti in those dorms. The question is would they rather know or not know right after it happened in order to be informed and make their own decisions. I think that's a pretty clear answer.

I tried to avoid this nonsense so as not to displease the niche fanbase I have on here, but tonight I coincidentally saw this had made national news and felt shame for the SU name.

I've had people bring it up to me in public (I was golfing and have SU head covers), and I was ashamed as well... But more than that, I was angry at Syverud and the university for not handling it better. My first concern is not for the reputation of my alma mater and how that impacts me, my first concern is for the students on campus today. I want them to have as happy of a college experience as I had at Syracuse, I want them to learn as much as possible both academically and about life, and I want them to leave SU with fond memories and a love of the school. That's all way more important than what we feel NOW about the school, given the fact that its in the news.

Anyone who doesn't feel that way has lost sight of what this is all supposed to be about. The number of people around here who seem more concerned with the impact on recruiting or with the news coverage is sad, and it just makes me shake my head.

 

[Ghost]

An racist individual or individuals made a public display of their racism that specifically mentioned minority students by name. The university did not know who did it, how many people were involved, or whether anything else was in the works. Now, I don't know exactly what the graffiti said, so I can't evaluate it beyond that... But on those facts alone, I think people have a right to know that type of person is present and unidentified and to take that into account so that they can decide if they want to do anything differently in their day-to-day. This could be as simple as keeping their dorm room locked to protect personal belongings and/or their safety.

As a white male it's very easy to shrug this off. If I was a student right now, I wouldn't have felt unsafe over that graffiti. But, then, I'm not the one being targeted.

So let's say you don't know about it, so you don't lock your door and someone runs in and steals something or tags your wall, or worse... Now you've been hurt by not knowing. Maybe a student might not want to go to the bathroom alone as a minority in that dormitory, especially a female student, knowing what happened. I think that's a pretty reasonable response.

Especially a female student? Due to how weak they are compared to males? Maybe you could call them girls to really drive the point home.

Your characterization of females as particularly fragile is rather offensive. People trying to enforce gender norms at this time, in the midst of what's happening, well, it quite simply blows my mind.

Mind = Blown (not a turning down free pizza kinda blown, but blown nevertheless!)

Females are just as capable as males when it comes to going to the washroom alone.

 

[cuse522]

Especially a female student? Due to how weak they are compared to males? Maybe you could call them girls to really drive the point home.

Your characterization of females as particularly fragile is rather offensive. People trying to enforce gender norms at this time, in the midst of what's happening, well, it quite simply blows my mind.

Mind = Blown (not a turning down free pizza kinda blown, but blown nevertheless!)

Females are just as capable as males when it comes to going to the washroom alone.

I'm not sure if you're trolling me or not, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt just in case. I'm all for gender equality, not requiring people or expecting people to conform to gender norms/roles, etc... But women tend to be smaller and less physically strong than men. These are just facts of the world. That doesn't mean that women can't become strong, and even stronger than most men. There are plenty of women who are bigger, stronger, faster, better athletes, better fighters, you name it, than men. But on average, women are going to be less physically strong and more susceptible to being overpowered by an attacker.

On the other hand, women have many physical advantages over men - research has shown they fight off illness better than men, for example.

Respecting gender equality in this regard means being open to women in various jobs/roles in which physical strength is required, as long as they meet whatever criteria exist for that position. It doesn't mean denying facts regarding average height/weight/strength by gender.

 

[tptcuse]

An racist individual or individuals made a public display of their racism that specifically mentioned minority students by name. The university did not know who did it, how many people were involved, or whether anything else was in the works. Now, I don't know exactly what the graffiti said, so I can't evaluate it beyond that... But on those facts alone, I think people have a right to know that type of person is present and unidentified and to take that into account so that they can decide if they want to do anything differently in their day-to-day. This could be as simple as keeping their dorm room locked to protect personal belongings and/or their safety.

As a white male it's very easy to shrug this off. If I was a student right now, I wouldn't have felt unsafe over that graffiti. But, then, I'm not the one being targeted.

So let's say you don't know about it, so you don't lock your door and someone runs in and steals something or tags your wall, or worse... Now you've been hurt by not knowing. Maybe a student might not want to go to the bathroom alone as a minority in that dormitory, especially a female student, knowing what happened. I think that's a pretty reasonable response.



Well, sure, now that nothing else has happened in connection to the graffiti in those dorms. The question is would they rather know or not know right after it happened in order to be informed and make their own decisions. I think that's a pretty clear answer.



I've had people bring it up to me in public (I was golfing and have SU head covers), and I was ashamed as well... But more than that, I was angry at Syverud and the university for not handling it better. My first concern is not for the reputation of my alma mater and how that impacts me, my first concern is for the students on campus today. I want them to have as happy of a college experience as I had at Syracuse, I want them to learn as much as possible both academically and about life, and I want them to leave SU with fond memories and a love of the school. That's all way more important than what we feel NOW about the school, given the fact that its in the news.

Anyone who doesn't feel that way has lost sight of what this is all supposed to be about. The number of people around here who seem more concerned with the impact on recruiting or with the news coverage is sad, and it just makes me shake my head.

I get where you are trying to go with these posts, but I personally think you are relying a bit too much on how the protesters "feel." In my opinion, this is too complicated to go into a psychological analysis about who feels what and why (and to what degree.) Suffice to say that when policy decisions are made quickly at an institution based on feelings it is a dangerous road.

I would be one of the first to call out the chancellor if I thought he was ignoring the students. I concurrently understand why many students would feel unsafe. As Cheriehoop suggests above, these decisions take time, investigation, and thoughtful decisions.

Also, as I stated earlier in this thread, many of the students' concerns were valid, well-thought, and would lead to good policy. I simply believe more information and attention is needed.

 

[cuse522]

I get where you are trying to go with these posts, but I personally think you are relying a bit too much on how the protesters "feel." In my opinion, this is too complicated to go into a psychological analysis about who feels what and why (and to what degree.) Suffice to say that when policy decisions are made quickly at an institution based on feelings it is a dangerous road.

I would be one of the first to call out the chancellor if I thought he was ignoring the students. I concurrently understand why many students would feel unsafe. As Cheriehoop suggests above, these decisions take time, investigation, and thoughtful decisions.

Also, as I stated earlier in this thread, many of the students' concerns were valid, well-thought, and would lead to good policy. I simply believe more information and attention is needed.

I didn't actually say that the policy decisions should be made based on immediate feelings. I do think part of the chancellors job is to make sure that students and faculty feel physically safe, and their emotional feelings should be factored in to his short-term communication and actions regardless of policy decisions. So, for example, even if the chancellor knows things about the investigations that make him think it's silly to cancel all classes for a couple days, if a large percentage of the students FEEL unsafe given what is publicly known, he should just cancel them anyway. This is the case whether it's due to a manifesto being released, a terror threat, an incoming blizzard, a risk of some sort of disease spreading like bird flu or whatever.

Long-term policy decisions should certainly factor in making people on campus feel safe and welcome in the future, even if those things are difficult to quantify and discuss in the heat of the moment, and even if those decisions take more time to make. However, part of the chancellor's job is to make the protesters (who are his students) feel heard and appreciated. If he did that immediately, he could have bought himself time to work through the rest of it and make decisions.

I certainly hope we would all agree that we would want every freshman student who walks onto campus next year to feel safe, welcome, happy and excited to be at SU, regardless of their background, gender, race, religion, etc. If people of color say that's not the way their experience was, we ought to listen to them and try to figure out what we can do to fix that.

I agree that more information and attention are needed. I think more dialogue is needed, and I think that dialogue is best had in small groups behind the scenes - those groups should probably include administrators, professors, students of color and alumni of color.

So an example of how I'd have handled the initial protest as chancellor is to go to them and immediately express a desire to hear their concerns, to meet with a small group they choose to represent them so that we can discuss them, and to put together a group discussion as I described to address the concerns. But then I'd tell them that I need them to wait a few days or a week or whatever for that to happen, because my first priority is their and all the students safety, and I need to work with DPS, Syracuse PD, etc to make sure that everyone is physically safe right now and that they're doing everything possible to catch who did that. I'd also ask them to take that time to put together some lists, ideas, etc, and offer them someone in my office to coordinate with. That's what I mean in terms of making them feel heard, valued and confident in a long-term solution.

Now maybe that happened and we didn't hear about it, or I'm misinformed, but as far as I know it did not. That to me is a failure by the chancellor.

 

[JoeySimz]

 

[kcsu]

Do you believe that to be born white has no advantage over being born black in America?

Wealth, environment, health, race in this order creates advantage. Race unfortunately still matters. Fortunately it is no longer close to the primary factor.

 

[CaptainJ]

...
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
...

Yeah, because that's what some kid ignoring(or even drawing) a Swatstika in the snow does. SMH.

 

[CaptainJ]

Details emerge of 3rd bias-related graffiti found in Day Hall

Three floors in Day Hall have had racist or bias-related graffiti to black or Asian students.

dailyorange.com

“(International students) didn’t even know the situation was occuring because nobody translated it to them,” one student said at the Residence Hall Association forum. “Most of us told us ‘I don’t know what’s going on. Tell me what’s going on.’”

That's hilarious... They didn't even know they were being mocked and were just going about their studies, but someone needed to translate it for them in order to get them riled up enough to join the ranks. Great thinking. Good find, Bees!

 

[CaptainJ]

there is video and eye witnesses

Does the video have audio? What exactly does it show?

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[CuseLegacy]

 

[capeorange]

 

[NineOneSeven]

Boo freaking hoo!

LEAVE THEN

 

[NKR1978]

It doesn’t appear that they’re acting in good faith. They’re accusing SU of acting in bad faith because SU hasn’t approached the “negotiation” the way the protesters believe to be fair. Do they want to be treated as an adult and as an equal, or do they want to be coddled like children? Serious discussions don’t happen in public. I’m afraid we’re getting to the situation at Northwestern where these very public protesters are going to attack the DO for covering them.

Student activism is a beautiful and wonderful thing. Holding the feet to the powerful to the fire is a good thing. One of their complaints is that it took seven days to come up with a strategy to combat racism on campus. Comprehensive plans take time to formulate.

They've accomplished so much good, but many of their complaints seem to stem from the fact that SU is treating them like adults.

There are 23,000 students at SU. They have a right to go to the classes that they’ve paid for and use the facilities available to them without being guilted. Activism is fun. But adults move on to the less fun work of working...hence why an action plan might take several days to implement.

 

[SU2NASA]

This all reeks of an orchestrated setup.

Glad they confirmed that I did not have any misconceptions about them or their real motives.

I say, screw it, hand over the power of the university to them and we can sit back and watch it burn.

 

[SU2NASA]

It doesn’t appear that they’re acting in good faith. They’re accusing SU of acting in bad faith because SU hasn’t approached the “negotiation” the way the protesters believe to be fair. Do they want to be treated as an adult and as an equal, or do they want to be coddled like children? Serious discussions don’t happen in public. I’m afraid we’re getting to the situation at Northwestern where these very public protesters are going to attack the DO for covering them.

Student activism is a beautiful and wonderful thing. Holding the feet to the powerful to the fire is a good thing. One of their complaints is that it took seven days to come up with a strategy to combat racism on campus. Comprehensive plans take time to formulate.

They've accomplished so much good, but many of their complaints seem to stem from the fact that SU is treating them like adults.

There are 23,000 students at SU. They have a right to go to the classes that they’ve paid for and use the facilities available to them without being guilted. Activism is fun. But adults move on to the less fun work of working...hence why an action plan might take several days to implement.

They’re not. They want power and it has never mattered what the Chancellor did. He literally gave in to everything that wasn’t freakin’ illegal. He gave in to demands that he doesn’t even have the power to.

The goodwill they were given, even with no evidence, has all been set on fire.

 

[Trueblue25]

I doubt theres even 50 of them at this point.

 

[rrlbees]

We had to clean this thread up again. We moved posts not SU related to the OT board. We also moved posts that were replying to old posts made before we requested everyone stay on SU topic.

Here is where the posts were moved to.

https://syracusefan.com/threads/white-privilege-racism-etc.148529/#post-3184738