Perspective on how good the 2024 class is (so far)

[steve deberg]

We are all aware this class might be the best class Syracuse has ever put together - and that we aren't done yet. We are all also in agreement that the "stars" system has some inherent flaws that work against Syracuse more than some other programs.

I am off for the holidays now, and I haven't had a fresh hit of commit in ~24 hours, so I thought I'd quantify things based on P5/P4 offers.

A few caveats before I give you the goods.
1) I didn't spend a lot of time on this
2) I am not very smart
3) Not all offers are reported/ committable, so this has flaws too
4) I only compared 2024 to our 2022 and 2023 classes
5) I grouped JUCOs in with Highschool commits

2022 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 4.52
Median P5/P4 Offers - 3

Transfers
Average P5/P4 Offers - 8.37
Median P5/P4 Offers - 9

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 5.76
Median P5/P4 Offers - 4

2023 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 1.94
Median P5/P4 Offers - 1
Transfers

Average P5/P4 Offers - 15.77
Median P5/P4 Offers - 13

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 6.55
Median P5/P4 Offers - 1

2024 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 9.44
Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

Transfers
Average P5/P4 Offers - 12.83
Median P5/P4 Offers - 12.5

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 10.25
Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

 

[RandomGuy]

We are all aware this class might be the best class Syracuse has ever put together - and that we aren't done yet. We are all also in agreement that the "stars" system has some inherent flaws that work against Syracuse more than some other programs.

I am off for the holidays now, and I haven't had a fresh hit of commit in ~24 hours, so I thought I'd quantify things based on P5/P4 offers.

A few caveats before I give you the goods.
1) I didn't spend a lot of time on this
2) I am not very smart
3) Not all offers are reported/ committable, so this has flaws too
4) I only compared 2024 to our 2022 and 2023 classes
5) I grouped JUCOs in with Highschool commits

2022 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 4.52
Median P5/P4 Offers - 3

Transfers
Average P5/P4 Offers - 8.37
Median P5/P4 Offers - 9

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 5.76
Median P5/P4 Offers - 4

2023 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 1.94
Median P5/P4 Offers - 1
Transfers

Average P5/P4 Offers - 15.77
Median P5/P4 Offers - 13

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 6.55
Median P5/P4 Offers - 1

2024 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 9.44
Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

Transfers
Average P5/P4 Offers - 12.83
Median P5/P4 Offers - 12.5

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 10.25
Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

I really like your methodology. For the offers matter crowd, it certainly makes a clear point. HS recruiting is VASTLY improved.

Transfers is tougher. Their HS offers may not translate to what actually happened when they entered college. Not easy to come up with a list of whom actually offered them in the portal. Our portal is ridiculous, this year!

HS
2022 4.52 offers
2023 1.94 offers
2024 9.44 offers

 

[richmondcuse03]

I really like your methodology. For the offers matter crowd, it certainly makes a clear point. HS recruiting is VASTLY improved.

Transfers is tougher. Their HS offers may not translate to what actually happened when they entered college. Not easy to come up with a list of whom actually offered them in the portal. Our portal is ridiculous, this year!

Agree. It also is consistent with what we all anecdotally see - the folks we're getting are wanted by better programs. We're not beating out MAC schools. We're beating out some legit SEC powers and out performing our peer schools too. A few years of this and we should have improved depth and talent to challenge for the ACC regularly. I never thought that was possible at Syracuse but Fran is showing us we should aim higher.

We just need to support their needs on the $ side.

 

[steve deberg]

I really like your methodology. For the offers matter crowd, it certainly makes a clear point. HS recruiting is VASTLY improved.

Transfers is tougher. Their HS offers may not translate to what actually happened when they entered college. Not easy to come up with a list of whom actually offered them in the portal. Our portal is ridiculous, this year!

HS
2022 4.52 offers
2023 1.94 offers
2024 9.44 offers

Thanks, and agreed on transfers. Evaluating transfers is an even more suspect pursuit than evaluating highschool recruits.

I think the median offers is the closest thing to a "true north" when it comes evaluating the quality of a class. What do you think Travis Hunter did to Jackson State's average offers?

Championship football teams aren't built on top heavy classes, they are built on deep classes with consistent quality.

I was shocked when I saw the median P5 offer amount was 1 (one!) for last year's class.

 

[Lenox]

It’s scary how good this class ALREADY is

 

[PFCuse14]

Fran did this in about 3 weeks...Imagine what he can do with a full year.

 

[RandomGuy]

Agree. It also is consistent with what we all anecdotally see - the folks we're getting are wanted by better programs. We're not beating out MAC schools. We're beating out some legit SEC powers and out performing our peer schools too. A few years of this and we should have improved depth and talent to challenge for the ACC regularly. I never thought that was possible at Syracuse but Fran is showing us we should aim higher.

We just need to support their needs on the $ side.

This stat makes some things tangible. We're not all going crazy...

Now for some orange colored glasses.
How much more desirable is this class compared, based on # of offers?

2022. TWICE as desirable.
2023. FOUR times more desirable.

Pretty sure ANY school would have taken McCord or Diggs. Insanely good portal.

 

[Nicknack]

We are all aware this class might be the best class Syracuse has ever put together - and that we aren't done yet. We are all also in agreement that the "stars" system has some inherent flaws that work against Syracuse more than some other programs.

I am off for the holidays now, and I haven't had a fresh hit of commit in ~24 hours, so I thought I'd quantify things based on P5/P4 offers.

A few caveats before I give you the goods.
1) I didn't spend a lot of time on this
2) I am not very smart
3) Not all offers are reported/ committable, so this has flaws too
4) I only compared 2024 to our 2022 and 2023 classes
5) I grouped JUCOs in with Highschool commits

2022 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 4.52
Median P5/P4 Offers - 3

Transfers
Average P5/P4 Offers - 8.37
Median P5/P4 Offers - 9

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 5.76
Median P5/P4 Offers - 4

2023 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 1.94
Median P5/P4 Offers - 1
Transfers

Average P5/P4 Offers - 15.77
Median P5/P4 Offers - 13

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 6.55
Median P5/P4 Offers - 1

2024 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 9.44
Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

Transfers
Average P5/P4 Offers - 12.83
Median P5/P4 Offers - 12.5

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 10.25
Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

I gave you a like before even reading your info (which is informative) because no better way in starting off with your top two caveats being you're not smart and didn't spend much time on it.

 

[CbusCuse]

We are all aware this class might be the best class Syracuse has ever put together - and that we aren't done yet. We are all also in agreement that the "stars" system has some inherent flaws that work against Syracuse more than some other programs.

I am off for the holidays now, and I haven't had a fresh hit of commit in ~24 hours, so I thought I'd quantify things based on P5/P4 offers.

...

2024 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 9.44
Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

Transfers
Average P5/P4 Offers - 12.83
Median P5/P4 Offers - 12.5

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 10.25
Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

Thanks for the breakdown.
Your last number shown of 8 must be incorrect.

Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

 

[Libero2]

That HS number for 2023 can’t be right can it? Our entire class averaged less than 2 P5 offers? That sounds utterly insane to me

 

[steve deberg]

That HS number for 2023 can’t be right can it? Our entire class averaged less than 2 P5 offers? That sounds utterly insane to me

According to the "Recruits and Offers" thread for 2023 (which are the threads I used for this), we had 15 commits who's only P5 offer was Syracuse.

 

[steve deberg]

Thanks for the breakdown.
Your last number shown of 8 must be incorrect.

Median P5/P4 Offers - 8

Please see caveats 1 and 2.

However after double checking, that number does seem to be correct (based on the info in the "Recruits and Offers" thread).

 

[IthacaBarrel]

According to the "Recruits and Offers" thread for 2023 (which are the threads I used for this), we had 15 commits who's only P5 offer was Syracuse.

And probably problem #1 with the program the past 20 years. Just not enough overall talent on the roster from top to bottom.

 

[Libero2]

According to the "Recruits and Offers" thread for 2023 (which are the threads I used for this), we had 15 commits who's only P5 offer was Syracuse.

Oh I’m not doubting his checking of things, I just am flabbergasted that it’s right.

I would assume that Fran doesn’t end up keeping most of that class to graduation if they truly were 1 P5 offer level talents.

 

[tep624]

That HS number for 2023 can’t be right can it? Our entire class averaged less than 2 P5 offers? That sounds utterly insane to me

It is right. We lost our best 2 prospects right before or on signing day, landed Darrel Gill on signing day over Washington St., and then backfilled our open spots with 4 JUCO's noone else offered in the late spring/summer.

Excluding the Transfers, that class was the worst on paper I've seen.

 

[tep624]

Please see caveats 1 and 2.

However after double checking, that number does seem to be correct (based on the info in the "Recruits and Offers" thread).

It's right

 

[Yeti]

2023 Recruiting Class:
Highschool/ JUCO
Average P5/P4 Offers - 1.94
Median P5/P4 Offers - 1
Transfers

Average P5/P4 Offers - 15.77
Median P5/P4 Offers - 13

Total
Average P5/P4 Offers - 6.55
Median P5/P4 Offers - 1

What are those highschool/juco numbers? That's atrocious.

 

[Sudano]

And probably problem #1 with the program the past 20 years. Just not enough overall talent on the roster from top to bottom.

You are what your record tells you, you are. Nothing more, nothing less. I've been on this board getting beat up for years by the polly anna notion that we were always better than that. And this very simple factual notion that we didn't have enough talent, was met with disdain, disrespect, and snide comments. Now everyone is posting it under the comfort of improved recruiting. Where were all of you when it was obvious to any logical person we weren't getting enough talented players to compete at the level we needed to be.

 

[IthacaBarrel]

You are what your record tells you, you are. Nothing more, nothing less. I've been on this board getting beat up for years by the polly anna notion that we were always better than that. And this very simple factual notion that we didn't have enough talent, was met with disdain, disrespect, and snide comments. Now everyone is posting it under the comfort of improved recruiting. Where were all of you when it was obvious to any logical person we weren't getting enough talented players to compete at the level we needed to be.

easy tiger. when you bring in 2-3 of the best recruiters in all of college football I would expect a significant talent upgrade. There is risk here too. I will look for you when we lose the first game that we shouldn't next year. Will you be pounding your chest then?

Talent still needs to coached, developed and gameplans need to be developed and implemented as well

 

[Sudano]

easy tiger. when you bring in 2-3 of the best recruiters in all of college football I would expect a significant talent upgrade. There is risk here too. I will look for you when we lose the first game that we shouldn't next year. Will you be pounding your chest then?

Talent still needs to coached, developed and gameplans need to be developed and implemented as well

And away we go...Tons of risk getting so much talent. Pleese, Again stop with the tone and put money in the apology basket like the rest of them.

 

[Jake]

Fran did this in about 3 weeks...Imagine what he can do with a full year.

We need to back step this a bit. Yes it was 3 weeks, but we got done built in kids because of the newly hired assistants.

But it’s still crazy impressive.

 

[BillSU]

We need to back step this a bit. Yes it was 3 weeks, but we got done built in kids because of the newly hired assistants.

But it’s still crazy impressive.

Per 247.com

Here is the list so far. I have added ratings and speed for the 40 (if available.) Of this list 14 are fast or very fast. Always great to have SPEED .

Syracuse 2024 Football Commits (18)​

SYRACUSE 2024 COMMITS 247SPORTS
SORT MORE

Overall Rank​

34
See All

Composite Rank​

45
See All

Transfer Rank​

15
See All
Head coach: Fran Brown

• Signed Letter of Intent (18) Pos Ht / Wt Rating Status
• 
  King Joseph Edwards Mill Creek (Hoschton, GA) 4 STAR ****
  6-4 / 230
  90
  NA 22 35
  Signed
  Edge
  
  
  
  Jamie Tremble Wesleyan School (Norcross, GA) 4 Star ****/ 4.5 40
  6-4 / 210
  91
  196 13 23
  Signed
  TE
  
  
• 
  
• 
  
• 
  Emanuel Ross Red Bank Catholic (Red Bank, NJ) 4 STAR ****/ 4.40 40
  6-2 / 190
  88
  NA 92 8
  Signed
  ATH
  
  Yasin Willis St Joseph Regional (Montvale, NJ) 4 STAR**** 4.46 40
  6-1 / 220
  88
  NA 51 10
  Signed
  RB
  
  
• Maraad WatsonIrvington (Irvington, NJ)
  6-3 / 285
  88
  NA 92 12
  Signed
  DL
  
  
  
  Caden Brown Erasmus Hall (Brooklyn, NY)
  6-3 / 210
  88
  NA 44 4
  Signed
  Edge
  
  
  
  Jaylan Hornsby Winslow Township (Atco, NJ) 4.47 40
  6-2 / 195
  88
  NA 94 11
  Signed
  WR
  
  
  
  
  
• 
  Elijah Washington Lake Taylor (Norfolk, VA) 4.58 40
  6-6 / 210
  87
  NA 81 19
  Signed
  ATH
  
  
  Jakhari WilliamsFirst Presbyterian Day School (Macon, GA) 4.5 40
  6-3 / 190
  87
  NA 48 99
  Signed
  QB
  
  
  
  Ta'Ron HaileMillville (Millville, NJ) / 4.73 40
  6-1 / 180
  87
  NA 116 16
  Signed
  WR
  
  
• 
  Ja'Meer Thomas Bennett (Buffalo, NY) 4.45 40
  5-10 / 170
  86
  NA 125 10
  Signed
  ATH
  
  
  
  Jaden Hart Michigan City (Michigan City, IN) 4.50 40
  6-0 / 205
  87
  NA 67 18
  Signed
  RB
  
  
• 
  
  Jayden Brown Don Bosco Prep (Ramsey, NJ) 4.38 40 FASTEST IN THIS CYCLE SO FAR
  6-3 / 220
  85
  NA 135 27
  Signed
  LB
  
  
• 
  Willie Goodacre Guyer (Denton, TX)
  6-4.5 / 300
  85
  NA 126 233
  Signed
  IOL
  
  
• 
  
  Fatim Diggs Eastside (Camden, NJ)
  6-3 / 220
  80
  NA 233 52
  Signed
  LB
  
  
  
  Braheem Long Camden (Camden, NJ) 4.5 40
  6-0 / 170
  84
  NA 186 37
  Signed
  ATH
  
  
  
  Noah Rosahac Jim Thorpe Area (Jim Thorpe, PA)
  6-5 / 270
  85
  NA 132 40
  Signed
  IOL
  
  
• 
  Jahide Lesaine Irvington (Irvington, NJ)
  6-4 / 234 40 NA
  80
  NA 129 53
  Signed
  TE
  

• Transfers (6)Pos Prediction Eligible Transfer
• 
  
  Fadil Diggs
  6-5 / 250 5 STAR***** 4.67 40
  0.9200 (T) 0.9321 (HS)
  Edge
  Immediate
  Devin Grant 4.67 40
  6-4 / 190
  0.8900 (T) 0.8700 (HS)
  
  S
  Immediateames Heard
  6-2 / 230
  0.8500 (T) 0.8804 (H
  
  Edge
  Immediate
  
  
  
• 
  
  Kyle McCord 4.95 40
  6-3 / 215
  0.9100 (T) 0.9858 (HS)
  QB
  Immediate
  Yazeed Haynes 4.39 40 SECOND FASTEST RECRUIT/ TRANSFER
  6-1 / 170
  0.8900 (T) 0.9238 (HS)
  
  WR
  Immediate
  
  
  Jackson Meeks 4.59/40
  6-2 / 205
  0.8700 (T) 0.8715 (HS)
  
  WR
  Immediate
  
  
  

SIGNED

 

[boog7]

And probably problem #1 with the program the past 20 years. Just not enough overall talent on the roster from top to bottom.

It's really that simple.

And that's why ADJW hiring HCFB - the #1 recruiter in CFB - was so brilliant and innovative. ADJW comes from the "talent acquisition" business. HCFB is someone who specializes and excels at football "talent acquisition" and in less than ONE MONTH on the job, he has bought in a level of talent not seen at SU since the 90's. Props to HCFB & his staff for bringing in such a talented group of players but huge props to AD Wildhack as well for making a visionary hire that's already paying big dividends.

 

[tep624]

And probably problem #1 with the program the past 20 years. Just not enough overall talent on the roster from top to bottom.

That and severe lack of competent depth at the same position groups year in, year out. OL and QB practically every year for example.

 

[STEVEHOLT]

Loooooll