Perspective...

[newmexicuse]

Yes, I wanted QG as much as the next poster here, but let's deal with reality and perspective:

1. This was a borderline Top 25 kid. It wasn't like he was considered to be a legit Top 5 super-elite talent that could take a school to a a FF by himself. It was only that we were very vested into him and that the rest of our recruiting has been awful in this cycle that the world seemed to revolve around him.

2. Many posters on this board were very delusional in thinking that if we did get QG that a slew of other Top 50 kids would follow him. Every kid & his family are different. All will make the decision that is best for them. There are very few package deals out there amongst the Top players. Additionally, I never read anywhere, even on thsi forum about any specific kid waiting to see where QG was going before deciding for himself what school would be best.

3. As good as the staff did in salvaging last year's recruiting with late gets, they have been that bad in this year's cycle. There was no Plan B. IMHO, the strength of our recruiting is identifying early and wrapping up the under the radar guys. The MCW's and Lydon's of this world. Quade was actually one of those kids except he blew up too early & did not wait until after he arrived on campus. But, the issue is why was he the only one of those kids, especially in this cycle when we had 7 scholies & we could afford a couple of misses if the staff was wrong ? He isn't our only need next year. We seem to be OK with bigs, but the game as shifted & we will badly need guards & wings, especially those who can shoot. Howard & Battle if he stays will be a solid starting backcourt, but they aren't enough by themselves & who knows if Battle will even be back.

4. I hate the recruiting strategy of putting all the eggs in one basket. There is no reason to not recruit other kids with interest. Worst that happens is we get serious with somebody else & then we can at least turn to Qudae & say, "you are the #1 pick, but if you don't pull the trigger & X does then we will be accepting his commitment".

5. Many posters here were confident about getting Randolph & some others. I am no recruiting guru, but I do read the stuff that is out there on the net. Fact is, amongst the other various Top 50 kids that we missed on at no point did I read that we were the leader for any of them except for Green. There was a lot of delusion in this recruiting cycle. Comes back to begging the question, why wasn't the staff pursuing other when we have soo many openings ? It is not like we had a full house & could only take two kids in which case i am also all for swinging for the fences.

6. Forward going, let's stop kidding ourselves. We are not Duke or Kentucky. It is very rare that we will beat those programs head to head if they also really want a kid we are after. Our recruiting sweet spot is the 40 to 100s & finding the under the radar guys. How many Top Twenty kids do we get ? Off the Top since Melo I am only thinking of McCulloch who was ranked that high. Again, I am not against trying, but I am against not having a Plan B when going after those types.

Yes, i am frustrated, but more so by the staff & the lack of a plan B than by a HS kid who may have been swayed by a bag or maybe just by an overall better program as much as we hate to admit it.

 

[Cusefan0307]

Mali was McDonalds All American. Battle was top 40. He actually fell after he committed to us.

 

[RF2044]

Yes, i am frustrated, but more so by the staff & the lack of a plan B than by a HS kid who may have been swayed by a bag or maybe just by an overall better program as much as we hate to admit it.

Oh yeah? I pray we play UK this year to debunk that assertion.

 

[JazzNC]

I hope Syracuse plays Kentucky in the tournament and mops the floor with them...30 point blowout!

 

[AZOrange]

Yes, I wanted QG as much as the next poster here, but let's deal with reality and perspective:

1. This was a borderline Top 25 kid. It wasn't like he was considered to be a legit Top 5 super-elite talent that could take a school to a a FF by himself. It was only that we were very vested into him and that the rest of our recruiting has been awful in this cycle that the world seemed to revolve around him.

2. Many posters on this board were very delusional in thinking that if we did get QG that a slew of other Top 50 kids would follow him. Every kid & his family are different. All will make the decision that is best for them. There are very few package deals out there amongst the Top players. Additionally, I never read anywhere, even on thsi forum about any specific kid waiting to see where QG was going before deciding for himself what school would be best.

3. As good as the staff did in salvaging last year's recruiting with late gets, they have been that bad in this year's cycle. There was no Plan B. IMHO, the strength of our recruiting is identifying early and wrapping up the under the radar guys. The MCW's and Lydon's of this world. Quade was actually one of those kids except he blew up too early & did not wait until after he arrived on campus. But, the issue is why was he the only one of those kids, especially in this cycle when we had 7 scholies & we could afford a couple of misses if the staff was wrong ? He isn't our only need next year. We seem to be OK with bigs, but the game as shifted & we will badly need guards & wings, especially those who can shoot. Howard & Battle if he stays will be a solid starting backcourt, but they aren't enough by themselves & who knows if Battle will even be back.

4. I hate the recruiting strategy of putting all the eggs in one basket. There is no reason to not recruit other kids with interest. Worst that happens is we get serious with somebody else & then we can at least turn to Qudae & say, "you are the #1 pick, but if you don't pull the trigger & X does then we will be accepting his commitment".

5. Many posters here were confident about getting Randolph & some others. I am no recruiting guru, but I do read the stuff that is out there on the net. Fact is, amongst the other various Top 50 kids that we missed on at no point did I read that we were the leader for any of them except for Green. There was a lot of delusion in this recruiting cycle. Comes back to begging the question, why wasn't the staff pursuing other when we have soo many openings ? It is not like we had a full house & could only take two kids in which case i am also all for swinging for the fences.

6. Forward going, let's stop kidding ourselves. We are not Duke or Kentucky. It is very rare that we will beat those programs head to head if they also really want a kid we are after. Our recruiting sweet spot is the 40 to 100s & finding the under the radar guys. How many Top Twenty kids do we get ? Off the Top since Melo I am only thinking of McCulloch who was ranked that high. Again, I am not against trying, but I am against not having a Plan B when going after those types.

Yes, i am frustrated, but more so by the staff & the lack of a plan B than by a HS kid who may have been swayed by a bag or maybe just by an overall better program as much as we hate to admit it.

Agree with a lot of this. Also is anyone else already annoyed with the word "bag" in this context?

 

[AZOrange]

Also I always wondered why duke didn't do better in QGs recruitment. Me thinks now that it was probably more about them seeing "danger ahead" signs...

 

[Consigliere]

I think that the staff DID consider "Plan B" options at point guard but became so convinced that they had Green they told the other targets to move on and take care of themselves. I applaud that approach. However, either the staff misread Green's intentions or Green was completely disingenuous and said he was 100% Orange and nothing would change that.
Cuse will be fine. If Battle comes back he will slide over and spell Frank at the point for a few minutes each half next year. If not, we'll find a serviceable or better combo guard to do the same. With the early returns on Howard thus season I don't think you'll find a pure 5th year point willing to come here and fight for minutes and the pool of available HS PGS has become quite shallow.
I do feel bad for the "Plan B" kids for whom Syracuse may have been the top destination but we're advised to move on and committed elsewhere. Wherever the breakdown was between Green and the staff, they are the ones who were really impacted .

 

[newmexicuse]

Agree with a lot of this. Also is anyone else already annoyed with the word "bag" in this context?

many others on this forum have asserted that QG took a "bag." All I said is that maybe he did & maybe he didn't & that he may have been swayed by other factors to go to Kentucky. I don't know about the bag one way or the other & I did not accuse him of taking a bag.

Also, to other responses, I too hope we kick Kentucky's butt & I think there is a great chance that we will be better than them this year. But, please stop denying that they are an overall better program. They have better facilities, way more NCs, and the proof that is in the pudding from the perspective of recruits is that every single year they re-load with multiple Top 20 kids whereas we get one every five years or so. There is nothing wrong with admitting that they have a better overall program than we do, it doesn't make me any less of a Cuse fan. That is part of the delusion I was talking about, we need to know who we are and where we are & we need to play to our own strengths.

 

[Fly Rodder]

This is not a good look.

 

[721Comstock]

This is not a good look.

What, we were gonna get ALL of those guys?? :crazy:

Pretty much any non-UK, Duke, KU-type school is going to miss on more offers than they land.

UConn offers pretty much EVERYBODY, so they miss on that many more.

We swung for the fences, and missed.
Everybody - myself included - has been saying for years that we need to try to recruit against the big boys.
Well, this is what can happen.

Quade was an example of what we generally do best - get on a guy early, before he blows up.
But, this one fell thru (in literally the worst way possible - since it screwed us out of any real chance for another PG).

 

[AZOrange]

many others on this forum have asserted that QG took a "bag." All I said is that maybe he did & maybe he didn't & that he may have been swayed by other factors to go to Kentucky. I don't know about the bag one way or the other & I did not accuse him of taking a bag.

Also, to other responses, I too hope we kick Kentucky's butt & I think there is a great chance that we will be better than them this year. But, please stop denying that they are an overall better program. They have better facilities, way more NCs, and the proof that is in the pudding from the perspective of recruits is that every single year they re-load with multiple Top 20 kids whereas we get one every five years or so. There is nothing wrong with admitting that they have a better overall program than we do, it doesn't make me any less of a Cuse fan. That is part of the delusion I was talking about, we need to know who we are and where we are & we need to play to our own strengths.

I know re "bag"...just a funny term...

 

[RF2044]

many others on this forum have asserted that QG took a "bag." All I said is that maybe he did & maybe he didn't & that he may have been swayed by other factors to go to Kentucky. I don't know about the bag one way or the other & I did not accuse him of taking a bag.

Also, to other responses, I too hope we kick Kentucky's butt & I think there is a great chance that we will be better than them this year. But, please stop denying that they are an overall better program. They have better facilities, way more NCs, and the proof that is in the pudding from the perspective of recruits is that every single year they re-load with multiple Top 20 kids whereas we get one every five years or so. There is nothing wrong with admitting that they have a better overall program than we do, it doesn't make me any less of a Cuse fan. That is part of the delusion I was talking about, we need to know who we are and where we are & we need to play to our own strengths.

Put a sock in it, newmexicuse. The board doesn't need a lecture on "delusion" from the guy on the board who proclaims that the sky is falling more than any other.

Green is a loss. It sucks. But here's what I know--if we played UK this year, we are going to win. So shelve the "we need to know our place" concession speeches -- talk about defeatist nonsense.

 

[GooseMutt]

I think that the staff DID consider "Plan B" options at point guard but became so convinced that they had Green they told the other targets to move on and take care of themselves. I applaud that approach. However, either the staff misread Green's intentions or Green was completely disingenuous and said he was 100% Orange and nothing would change that.
Cuse will be fine. If Battle comes back he will slide over and spell Frank at the point for a few minutes each half next year. If not, we'll find a serviceable or better combo guard to do the same. With the early returns on Howard thus season I don't think you'll find a pure 5th year point willing to come here and fight for minutes and the pool of available HS PGS has become quite shallow.
I do feel bad for the "Plan B" kids for whom Syracuse may have been the top destination but we're advised to move on and committed elsewhere. Wherever the breakdown was between Green and the staff, they are the ones who were really impacted .

Would love to see a list of 2017 5th yr ball players eligible

 

[newmexicuse]

Put a sock in it, newmexicuse. The board doesn't need a lecture on "delusion" from the guy on the board who proclaims that the sky is falling more than any other.

Green is a loss. It sucks. But here's what I know--if we played UK this year, we are going to win. So shelve the "we need to know our place" concession speeches -- talk about defeatist nonsense.

What part of I think there is a great chance that we will be better than them this year did you not understand ?????

 

[Fly Rodder]

What, we were gonna get ALL of those guys?? :crazy:

Yes, because that was the implication Einstein.

SU needed to be involved with a lot more than they were this cycle. They were going to miss on a lot, but they offered so few and bailed on a few and right now it's looking like a pretty underwhelming class when there was a lot of talent in the NE this year.

If Battle plays a soph year, it will lessen the sting, but this was a prime year to pick up a pile of top 40-100 talent to develop plus a couple of studs. Not a good look on the staff to whiff on just about everyone they targeted for the last three years.

 

[two3zone]

This is not a good look.

6 of the top 10 are from NY or PA, one more is from Oak Hill where we've brought some good players in the past.

If that doesn't tell you something is wrong with recruiting I don't know what will.

 

[orangecuse]

Oh yeah? I pray we play UK this year to debunk that assertion.

Really? 1 game (even if we were victorious) is not a program make. And, as you know, upsets happen on a daily basis. There is no doubt that UK's program is at a different level than ours, as is Duke's, KU's, etc. As newmex mentioned, we seldom ever get top 20 kids, UK gets 2-4 annually. Look at our long history of going up against the Blue Bloods when it comes to recruiting, it's pretty abysmal from a head to head standpoint. It really speaks for itself.

 

[Cliver]

Green is a loss. It sucks. But here's what I know--if we played UK this year, we are going to win. So shelve the "we need to know our place" concession speeches -- talk about defeatist nonsense.

Full disclosure: I'm a UK fan. I'm not here to harass or aggravate an already inflamed situation. I'm here because Syracuse is one of a handful of non-conference teams that I respect and follow, and because I'd really like to see a UK-Syracuse series sometime in the future.

Having said that... In reference to the bold line, how do you figure? Again - not looking for a fight. Just here to talk basketball.

 

[Cliver]

As newmex mentioned, we seldom ever get top 20 kids, UK gets 2-4 annually. Look at our long history of going up against the Blue Bloods when it comes to recruiting, it's pretty abysmal from a head to head standpoint. It really speaks for itself.

Off the top of my head, I know Cal wanted Dajuan Coleman.

 

[orangecuse]

Off the top of my head, I know Cal wanted Dajuan Coleman.

Well, he clearly would've been recruited over rather quickly at UK without a doubt. Even prior to his injuries (after his freshman year) he was certainly a work in progress from what I observed during his freshman season. I'd have to admit, I really don't know how he was a McDonald's AA and it would have been quite obvious to Cal early on that he was a significant project.

That being said, I give Coleman a ton of credit for his strong work ethic and perseverance in getting to the place he is today considering all he has had to endure.

 

[llandz]

Green did not sign his letter. He missed the early deadline, and will officially sign it in the spring. Another Tyus Battle situation here? He could flip his decision. Just a thought to throw out there. He said he was still conflicted on Saturday. The decision was based on the fact that Cal told him he would start as the point guard his freshman year. When all is said and done with the Kentucky recruitment, and he looks at all the players, he may have a change of heart.

 

[nyucuse]

Green did not sign his letter. He missed the early deadline, and will officially sign it in the spring. Another Tyus Battle situation here? He could flip his decision. Just a thought to throw out there. He said he was still conflicted on Saturday. The decision was based on the fact that Cal told him he would start as the point guard his freshman year. When all is said and done with the Kentucky recruitment, and he looks at all the players, he may have a change of heart.

Are you sure about that? My assumption was that he signed and back dated it

 

[orangecuse]

Green did not sign his letter. He missed the early deadline, and will officially sign it in the spring. Another Tyus Battle situation here? He could flip his decision. Just a thought to throw out there. He said he was still conflicted on Saturday. The decision was based on the fact that Cal told him he would start as the point guard his freshman year. When all is said and done with the Kentucky recruitment, and he looks at all the players, he may have a change of heart.

If true... PopcornPopcorn and soda

 

[Shaggy1]

Green did not sign his letter. He missed the early deadline, and will officially sign it in the spring. Another Tyus Battle situation here? He could flip his decision. Just a thought to throw out there. He said he was still conflicted on Saturday. The decision was based on the fact that Cal told him he would start as the point guard his freshman year. When all is said and done with the Kentucky recruitment, and he looks at all the players, he may have a change of heart.

You are more plugged in to the scene than I, but all reports say sent and signed. Would love to hear different though.

 

[doc05]

Green did not sign his letter. He missed the early deadline, and will officially sign it in the spring. Another Tyus Battle situation here? He could flip his decision. Just a thought to throw out there. He said he was still conflicted on Saturday. The decision was based on the fact that Cal told him he would start as the point guard his freshman year. When all is said and done with the Kentucky recruitment, and he looks at all the players, he may have a change of heart.

Not saying that this isn't true (I have no idea) -- but it feels to me this bridge has effectively been burned to rubble now. It sounds like the NG coaches wanted SU for him, but the allure of UK (and whatever else may have been a factor) was an 'offer' too good to refuse.