Pete Thamel On State of SU Football

[Moontan]

Syracuse football should be bowling at least every other year. At least.

In the current bowl era, 2 out of 3 or 3 out of 4 should be the minimum.

That means a -6 year winning streak followed by a 1-2 year dip (QB change, etc.), repeat...

At least a couple of years each decade should be a run for the division title.

Go Orange!

 

[Maxsumm]

Rutgers director of recruiting and similar titles make about $100k. Rutgers recruiting support staff budget is almost 2 million annually

They are getting a horrible return on their investment!

 

[nzm136]

They are getting a horrible return on their investment!

The numbers are interesting to me because we aren’t as as constrained by politics as our public friends. (Although it’s much easier to get Pennsylvania taxpayers to polish Beaver Stadium than it is to get them to keep academic buildings from falling down, so the political component may not help in this regard.)

Per Equity in Athletics, which I know has dubious numbers due to differences in accounting, PSU spends about ~40 MM to make ~100 MM. We spend about ~23 MM to make -44 MM. (I’m not counting scholarship costs because I don’t think they actually represent variable/marginal costs.)

My initial reaction is to question why we don’t spend closer to them. I know we won’t get 100 MM in revenue, and I know we still won’t be as good as them (a filled 110k stadium is a pipe dream at SU, and it, along with other football-related CapEx investments, sell PSU to recruits). But +20 MM would be good at first glance, even if it gets us 8-9 win seasons and 65 MM. The financials would mostly wash, and the soft benefits (exposure, alumni engagement, student spirit, etc.) would be fantastic. However, after thinking about it a little more, Title IX probably complicates things. I doubt any major school in America is truly in compliance with the act, but all give some degree of lip service. If we have to spend somewhat evenly between men’s sports and women’s sports to keep up the illusion of compliance, then the extra ~20 MM is really ~35-40 MM, pushing the break even to ~80-85 MM (less soft benefits). Unfortunately, 80-96 MM isn’t going to happen.

For anyone interested in what money buys, the difference between PSU and ‘Bama is roughly SU and PSU, albeit I’m sure Texas burns money left and right for dubious results, so money is admittedly not everything.

 

[Newhouser]

One more time. Dino thought he was gone after or 10 win season.

so why wasn't he - he got no feelers? That had to be humbling and depressing.

 

[cuse10]

so why wasn't he - he got no feelers? That had to be humbling and depressing.

Clay Helton got more time at SC because of the politics at the university. He went 5-7 in 2018. That was one of the schools he was linked to that year.

 

[Alsacs]

Thamel himself tried to make Dino a candidate for the Maryland job in 2018.

10 coaching candidates to replace D.J. Durkin at Maryland

Here's a look at the candidates that could replace Durkin after the embattled coach was fired from Maryland following the tragic death of one of his players.

sports.yahoo.com

He has something against Syracuse which is fine but shouldn’t be forgot.

 

[Cuse69]

Thamel himself tried to make Dino a candidate for the Maryland job in 2018.

10 coaching candidates to replace D.J. Durkin at Maryland

Here's a look at the candidates that could replace Durkin after the embattled coach was fired from Maryland following the tragic death of one of his players.

sports.yahoo.com

He has something against Syracuse which is fine but shouldn’t be forgot.

Idk much about this thamel guy but anyone with a working brain knew dino to maryland wasn't happening, locksley is now the second lowest paid coach with schiano back at rutgers, all the guy needed to do was open his eyes to see the obvious lol

 

[Cusefan69]

The numbers are interesting to me because we aren’t as as constrained by politics as our public friends. (Although it’s much easier to get Pennsylvania taxpayers to polish Beaver Stadium than it is to get them to keep academic buildings from falling down, so the political component may not help in this regard.)

Per Equity in Athletics, which I know has dubious numbers due to differences in accounting, PSU spends about ~40 MM to make ~100 MM. We spend about ~23 MM to make -44 MM. (I’m not counting scholarship costs because I don’t think they actually represent variable/marginal costs.)

My initial reaction is to question why we don’t spend closer to them. I know we won’t get 100 MM in revenue, and I know we still won’t be as good as them (a filled 110k stadium is a pipe dream at SU, and it, along with other football-related CapEx investments, sell PSU to recruits). But +20 MM would be good at first glance, even if it gets us 8-9 win seasons and 65 MM. The financials would mostly wash, and the soft benefits (exposure, alumni engagement, student spirit, etc.) would be fantastic. However, after thinking about it a little more, Title IX probably complicates things. I doubt any major school in America is truly in compliance with the act, but all give some degree of lip service. If we have to spend somewhat evenly between men’s sports and women’s sports to keep up the illusion of compliance, then the extra ~20 MM is really ~35-40 MM, pushing the break even to ~80-85 MM (less soft benefits). Unfortunately, 80-96 MM isn’t going to happen.

For anyone interested in what money buys, the difference between PSU and ‘Bama is roughly SU and PSU, albeit I’m sure Texas burns money left and right for dubious results.

I may be way off base on this one but I swear I recall reading on this board that ACC funds don't go to the Athletic Department but to the General Fund at Syracuse. So part of the misunderstanding some fans have (not saying you NZM) is that the AD can take all that ACC money and go crazy on upgrades and salaries. Maybe I am not recalling this accurately and I am sure there are others more intimately aware of how the university budgets and allocates but again I don't think sports get all the money. That said I happily will defer to those more closely connected and informed on the subject.

 

[cuse10]

I may be way off base on this one but I swear I recall reading on this board that ACC funds don't go to the Athletic Department but to the General Fund at Syracuse. So part of the misunderstanding some fans have (not saying you NZM) is that the AD can take all that ACC money and go crazy on upgrades and salaries. Maybe I am not recalling this accurately and I am sure there are others more intimately aware of how the university budgets and allocates but again I don't think sports get all the money. That said I happily will defer to those more closely connected and informed on the subject.

If that's true, you're likely to leave the AD in the red after the university takes what they feel they need.

 

[Cusefan69]

If that's true, you're likely to leave the AD in the red after the university takes what they feel they need.

Could be. Again my memory isn't what it used to be so I may not be recollecting accurately but once upon a time there was a thread talking about how money is budgeted and routed on the hill and that's what I recalled from that thread. Hopefully someone more informed can refresh how it actually works.

 

[Alsacs]

Idk much about this thamel guy but anyone with a working brain knew dino to maryland wasn't happening, locksley is now the second lowest paid coach with schiano back at rutgers, all the guy needed to do was open his eyes to see the obvious lol

I posted that because he said this as to why Dino should be a candidate for Maryland.
“2. Dino Babers, Syracuse – Maryland fans recall the 48-27 shellacking that Babers put on them while at Bowling Green. Babers getting Syracuse into the national rankings for the first time in 17 years thrusts him into the conversation. His offense would give Maryland a much-needed identity. The success he’s had recruiting that area at Syracuse shouldn’t be overlooked”

Now go read his article from 2 days ago.
He rips our recruiting.

Thamel is a clown and deserves to be called out for it.

 

[nzm136]

I may be way off base on this one but I swear I recall reading on this board that ACC funds don't go to the Athletic Department but to the General Fund at Syracuse. So part of the misunderstanding some fans have (not saying you NZM) is that the AD can take all that ACC money and go crazy on upgrades and salaries. Maybe I am not recalling this accurately and I am sure there are others more intimately aware of how the university budgets and allocates but again I don't think sports get all the money. That said I happily will defer to those more closely connected and informed on the subject.

Oh, I have no idea how we do our internal accounting other than some high level DO/Syracuse Post Standard articles, but I think it’s a moot point.

An organization should spend until the marginal benefit equals the marginal cost. Any self-created structure that impedes that ability is bureaucratic waste that should be eliminated and/or circumvented.

That bureaucracy can be circumvented through loan revolvers, “subsidies” from the academic side, and probably several other avenues.

The above said, I think continued Title IX “compliance” means that we probably are spending close to the point where marginal benefit = marginal costs. Assuming whatever women’s sports we’d add/upgrade have minimal benefits, then we’d need close to a 2X RoI on every incremental football dollar to make financial sense. That kind of return for college football is a tall order, especially in New York.

EDIT: The above formula is simplistic, but there’s no point in parsing risk profiles and probabilities when doing napkin math based off of Equity in Athletics funny money numbers. I’m already doing surgery with sledge hammers.

EDIT 2: To your comment, the athletic dept rents the Dome from the university. My best guess is it’s because the athletic dept is somewhat separate from the rest of the school, and the University has a better credit rating, so it was cheaper for the university to build it. Also, going by memory, there’s something like a 20-25% internal “tax” on media revenue that benefits the academic side.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

ESPN bringing Pete Thamel aboard as college football insider

ESPN is adding what it hopes is the Adam Schefter of college football.

nypost.com

 

[Whitey23]

 

[Ragman2000]

 

[Noexcuse]

SU. Wildhack. ESPN. Thamel. Hmmmmmm . . .

 

[Chip]

It's a good hire for ESPN, he's as insider as it gets. He's the one who breaks everything.

If he'll be on TV more, they'll need to do something with that hair.

 

[Jake]

I expect he will break the news of our last FB and everything else going forward.

 

[OrangeXtreme]

 

[721Comstock]

Great.

So now we can assume that he will go even further out of his way to prove he’s not a Syracuse homer.
awesome.

 

[sutomcat]

It's a good hire for ESPN, he's as insider as it gets. He's the one who breaks everything.

If he'll be on TV more, they'll need to do something with that hair.

Yes, Pete is the guy you want if you want to be considered the go to source for college football info.

I expect we will see a lot of him on SportsCenter, Game Day sets, and all their college football content in the future. In addition to his work on social media and some 'print' articles he will probably contribute.