Pete Thamel On State of SU Football

[DocFlanders]

You should 100% believe everything you read on the internet.
- Mark Twain

I get that, but can't really dispute any of it either at this point. The state of the program is what it is.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yeah, some truth buried in there but it's covered in typical Thamel glop and hard to distinguish between.

Takeaways:

1. Big buyout, he gets another year and it's probably a good thing
2. Recruiting is always an issue and could use some tweaking
3. More Hafley butt kissing. Whoever is his agent needs a raise
4. Thamel doesn't like Wildhack, but we knew that

No HC's buyout is 100% of their contract. For Babers to have a $17M buyout would mean that he is making over $4.25M per year. Thamel will get the occasional inside info but the majority of the time he just throws against the wall. Even his non SU info.

 

[dasher]

He gets several things wrong.
He can hammer the program on the field but he ignores a lot.

Ripping the program is fair game but the fundraising and recruiting actually going up.

No problem with fund raising but the recruiting is only up a bit. It compares with our peer schools but isn't superior. The program is a train wreck. It's sad. I bet Thamel is sad about it. I doubt very much that he takes joy in it like some claim. I admit I don't know him but many people seem to think if you point out bad things you are a hater.

 

[dasher]

No HC's buyout is 100% of their contract. For Babers to have a $17M buyout would mean that he is making over $4.25M per year. Thamel will get the occasional inside info but the majority of the time he just throws against the wall. Even his non SU info.

there is no way i believe that a reporter of his reputation is just throwing something against the wall.

 

[Cuse69]

He gets several things wrong.
He can hammer the program on the field but he ignores a lot.

Ripping the program is fair game but the fundraising and recruiting actually going up.

Fundraising is up but you don't want to spend it all on dinos buyout, it's not easy for any school to eat 17 million and it won't be for us, recruiting really isn't that far up, in terms of class ranking it isn't, personally couldn't care less about what our avg recruit 247sports decimal rating is, if we had out most ever top 1000 players you'd have me. Fundraising definitely up but it would pain me to give away that money, jurys still out on recruiting tho

 

[Ozcuse]

He gets several things wrong.
He can hammer the program on the field but he ignores a lot.

Ripping the program is fair game but the fundraising and recruiting actually going up.

I think he is comparing our recruiting infrastructure, staff and spending (specific to recruiting), not specifically the recruiting rankings at current time. Which is always subject to change as the season continues.

It's not like there is a lot of evidence to the contrary either. I would have expected a significant bump in recruiting after 2018 season but we didn't.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

there is no way i believe that a reporter of his reputation is just throwing something against the wall.

Since he has left the times he has been a click baiter. He really has gone waaaay down hill in his "reporting." Rerad his non SU stuff and it is mostly garbage.

 

[cuse10]

Guys, we can't be mad at Pete Thamel for speaking honestly on the program. It's basically the same thing that goes on here at this message board.

The '21 class is better on paper RIGHT NOW. Look at some of the teams behind us. They are going to pass us as they fill their classes. We are going to be in the 50s/60s range which is par for the course with Dino's tenure on the hill.

Pete wants us to be successful believe it or not and is as frustrated as most of us.

I disagree with your last point. I don't know what happened to Thamel during his time at Syracuse, but he has a genuine dispassion for the university. It's not siloed to football.

 

[dasher]

Since he has left the times he has been a click baiter. He really has gone waaaay down hill in his "reporting." Rerad his non SU stuff and it is mostly garbage.

I don't read his non Syracuse stuff. But I find it difficult to believe that he would leave the Times and leave his reputation there. He is a young guy. He has a lot of time left to his career.

 

[dasher]

I disagree with your last point. I don't know what happened to Thamel during his time at Syracuse, but he has a genuine dispassion for the university. It's not siloed to football.

I don't know him but might he be going out of his way to show he is a non homer?

 

[elimunelson]

I don't know him but might he be going out of his way to show he is a non homer?

Key line, "I don't know him".

Pete is a proud alum. This isn't pravda he writes for. Honestly the amount of reporters who didn't go to Syracuse who carry water for Boeheim is more embarrassing if you ask me. Difference being Jim is super friendly to his guys and feeds em accordingly

 

[Alsacs]

No problem with fund raising but the recruiting is only up a bit. It compares with our peer schools but isn't superior. The program is a train wreck. It's sad. I bet Thamel is sad about it. I doubt very much that he takes joy in it like some claim. I admit I don't know him but many people seem to think if you point out bad things you are a hater.

Thamel has a love/hate relationship with us.
When he gets access it’s love.
Since he lost access it’s hate.
Boeheim doesn’t like him so he gets nothing from him. Thus he is critical of Boeheim.

He believes the Maryland job is levels above the Syracuse job. Now I concede the Maryland job is better because of recruiting location the difference between the jobs isn’t gigantic. Thamel had Dr. Gross as a direct source when he did he lauded the program and was positive. Since he has lost Dr. Gross his coverage has been more negative. The results aren’t much different from the Dr. Gross days but his coverage is.

You treat your sources better.
Currently he is on the hater side but again my problem with that piece is he has facts wrong.

No chance he knows the buyout terms of Babers contract and friendly media don’t.
Wildhack is not going to be a fan of that piece thus I doubt he is a source. Thamel takes care of his sources.

What is the point of a buyout if the amount due is 100% of your salary.
It’s just a termination at the point.

Syracuse can negotiate if there is a buyout.

 

[cuse10]

I don't know him but might he be going out of his way to show he is a non homer?

Everyone seeps their biases into their writing. From the basketball side to football, his are that of disdain. No one said you had to be a homer, but to think that sports writers don't have favorite teams they pull for is mistaken. One of my good friends writes for the Rangers and says you don't cheer in the press box. Other than that, it's fair game. He wasn't wrong in what he wrote, but this is someone who doesn't like SU.

 

[elimunelson]

Thamel has a love/hate relationship with us.
When he gets access it’s love.
Since he lost access it’s hate.
Boeheim doesn’t like him so he gets nothing from him. Thus he is critical of Boeheim.

He believes the Maryland job is levels above the Syracuse job. Now I concede the Maryland job is better because of recruiting location the difference between the jobs isn’t gigantic. Thamel had Dr. Gross as a direct source when he did he lauded the program and was positive. Since he has lost Dr. Gross his coverage has been more negative. The results aren’t much different from the Dr. Gross days but his coverage is.

You treat your sources better.
Currently he is on the hater side but again my problem with that piece is he has facts wrong.

No chance he knows the buyout terms of Babers contract and friendly media don’t.
Wildhack is not going to be a fan of that piece thus I doubt he is a source. Thamel takes care of his sources.

What is the point of a buyout if the amount due is 100% of your salary.
It’s just a termination at the point.

Syracuse can negotiate if there is a buyout.

Underestimate the guy who worked at ESPN at your own peril.

At the time I suspect Dino did ask for the moon and a part of that was getting his contract fully guaranteed. Call it a buyout at 100% or a fully guaranteed. At a point you can buy out a final year b/c that becomes feasible. I suspect both parties don't want to buy out anything right now. Dino isn't getting a dream job and Syracuse isn't firing him. On the margins Wildhack can stir stuff up with the recruiting angle.

I'm sure he knows plenty of coaches from his ESPN days that are whispering in his ear that recruiting is folly at Syracuse. It doesn't just have to be ranking. The idea the qb situation has been a mess can be a scenario where we aren't looking under the right rocks no matter what the ranking is.

 

[Cusefan69]

No HC's buyout is 100% of their contract. For Babers to have a $17M buyout would mean that he is making over $4.25M per year. Thamel will get the occasional inside info but the majority of the time he just throws against the wall. Even his non SU info.

Agree. I can't imagine the powers that be would sign off on that if presented. Given it was a 4 year extension I could see cascading down payout by year but 100% ? So 4 years you get this percentage, 3 years bumps down to this percentage and so on. But 100%, that's excessive. Would be amazed if that would have been signed off on.

 

[upperdeck]

for all the Doom and Gloom fix 2 pieces of the Oline and we are 3-2 right now.. Can that be done next yr with what we have coming back ,, pretty sure it can.

 

[sutomcat]

Orange in a squeeze

Syracuse’s Dino Babers made his name as a head coach for being a nemesis to Clemson at a time when few in the ACC could muster much resistance.

In 2017, Syracuse stunned No. 2 Clemson in the Carrier Dome on a Friday night, Clemson’s last ACC loss. In 2018, Syracuse nearly pulled an upset at No. 3 Clemson, as Tigers backup Chase Brice needed a 94-yard scoring drive to win the game in the final minute. That Syracuse team went on to win 10 games, the lone winning season in Babers’ five years in Syracuse.

This week, Syracuse heads to Clemson with its program in the fetal position. Beset by opt-outs and injuries and fresh off a blowout home loss to Liberty, Syracuse is bracing for an ugly Saturday on the road against the No. 1 team in the country next week.

Syracuse’s season has been a perfect storm of misery. The Orange are down to seven scholarship offensive linemen, including a converted fullback, and is playing its fifth-string tailback and backup quarterback. The Orange’s best defensive player, Andre Cisco, got injured in warmups before the Georgia Tech game and has opted out for the season.

Don’t expect Babers’ job to be in jeopardy. He has four full years remaining on his contract this year, and the most conservative estimates of his buyout are that he’d be owed at least $17 million if he was fired after this season. That number would scare a well-heeled SEC athletic department, and Syracuse is decidedly not one of those.

What can Syracuse do? Support Babers’ weaknesses. One of the issues at Syracuse is that athletic director John Wildhack has no experience overseeing a major college football program, so there’s no leadership with an idea about structure, staffing and how to out-maneuver conference peers in more ideal recruiting bases.

Recruiting has never been the heartbeat of Babers’ coaching arsenal. While he has the charisma and charm to connect, coaches and analysts in the Northeast would not rate Babers’ recruiting metabolism with coaches like BC’s Jeff Hafley, Rutgers’ Greg Schiano or Penn State’s James Franklin.

Syracuse’s recruiting staff is one of the least sophisticated in the ACC, as Babers’ longtime assistant Roy Wittke is the new director of player personnel. Places like BC, Wake Forest and Rutgers – the schools Syracuse needs to beat — have invested in sophisticated operations. The Orange are lagging behind.

The most glaring evidence of the recruiting deficiencies is the lack of talent in Syracuse’s quarterback room, as Babers has yet to recruit and develop a proven ACC-level starter, and the lack of depth in that room has always been glaringly thin. He inherited Eric Dungey, and injured redshirt junior quarterback Tommy DeVito has yet to live up to his billing.

Babers is speeding toward his fourth losing seasons in five years. There’s a clear talent deficiency that’s glaring. Syracuse and Babers are contractually in lockstep for a while. To compete in the ACC, they need to start recruiting like an ACC school.

Agree with others. Pete has to mention that Syracuse is having their best recruiting season this year. He should mention they got a WB they are getting high OB this cycle with Lamson. He could mention that Dino Judy brought Chip West OB the staff, an assistant coach with strong recruiting chops. He could have mentioned how Dino had access to a plane for recruiting these days. Lots of improvements have been made.

I doubt any AD had ever made significant changes in how a football program does recruiting. The natural job of the AD is to rein in spending, not recommend ways to burn cash. Pretty naive and foolish to include in the article. A good editor should have pulled that.

That said, with all the changes, I believe our recruiting staff and budget are the smallest in the conference. That point is legit.

John Wildhack has helped make significant changes but more work needs to be done. Dino is not playing on a level playing field with the rest of the conference.

 

[RandomGuy]

Answered a question I was going to ask about the incoming class - when it is all said and done it will better in our terms but league wise we will be near the bottom?

Our current class is ranked 12 in the ACC
2020: 10
2019: 11
2018: 10
2017: 11
2016: 12

 

[sutomcat]

Orange in a squeeze

Syracuse’s Dino Babers made his name as a head coach for being a nemesis to Clemson at a time when few in the ACC could muster much resistance.

In 2017, Syracuse stunned No. 2 Clemson in the Carrier Dome on a Friday night, Clemson’s last ACC loss. In 2018, Syracuse nearly pulled an upset at No. 3 Clemson, as Tigers backup Chase Brice needed a 94-yard scoring drive to win the game in the final minute. That Syracuse team went on to win 10 games, the lone winning season in Babers’ five years in Syracuse.

This week, Syracuse heads to Clemson with its program in the fetal position. Beset by opt-outs and injuries and fresh off a blowout home loss to Liberty, Syracuse is bracing for an ugly Saturday on the road against the No. 1 team in the country next week.

Syracuse’s season has been a perfect storm of misery. The Orange are down to seven scholarship offensive linemen, including a converted fullback, and is playing its fifth-string tailback and backup quarterback. The Orange’s best defensive player, Andre Cisco, got injured in warmups before the Georgia Tech game and has opted out for the season.

Don’t expect Babers’ job to be in jeopardy. He has four full years remaining on his contract this year, and the most conservative estimates of his buyout are that he’d be owed at least $17 million if he was fired after this season. That number would scare a well-heeled SEC athletic department, and Syracuse is decidedly not one of those.

What can Syracuse do? Support Babers’ weaknesses. One of the issues at Syracuse is that athletic director John Wildhack has no experience overseeing a major college football program, so there’s no leadership with an idea about structure, staffing and how to out-maneuver conference peers in more ideal recruiting bases.

Recruiting has never been the heartbeat of Babers’ coaching arsenal. While he has the charisma and charm to connect, coaches and analysts in the Northeast would not rate Babers’ recruiting metabolism with coaches like BC’s Jeff Hafley, Rutgers’ Greg Schiano or Penn State’s James Franklin.

Syracuse’s recruiting staff is one of the least sophisticated in the ACC, as Babers’ longtime assistant Roy Wittke is the new director of player personnel. Places like BC, Wake Forest and Rutgers – the schools Syracuse needs to beat — have invested in sophisticated operations. The Orange are lagging behind.

The most glaring evidence of the recruiting deficiencies is the lack of talent in Syracuse’s quarterback room, as Babers has yet to recruit and develop a proven ACC-level starter, and the lack of depth in that room has always been glaringly thin. He inherited Eric Dungey, and injured redshirt junior quarterback Tommy DeVito has yet to live up to his billing.

Babers is speeding toward his fourth losing seasons in five years. There’s a clear talent deficiency that’s glaring. Syracuse and Babers are contractually in lockstep for a while. To compete in the ACC, they need to start recruiting like an ACC school.

Agree with others. Hope this shits down all the mouth breathers calling for Fino to get fired. It isn’t going to happen. Drop it. If you are too stupid to understand this, you should be rooting for Rutgers.

To be impartial and objective, Pete has to mention that Syracuse is having their best recruiting season this year. He should mention they got a QB they are very high on this cycle with Lamson. He could mention that Dino Judy brought Chip West on the staff, an assistant coach with strong recruiting chops. He could have mentioned how Dino has access to a plane for recruiting these days. We have hired more people for recruiting and the budget has been bumped. Lots of improvements have been made.

I doubt any AD had ever made significant changes in how a football program does recruiting. The natural job of the AD is to reign in spending, not recommend ways to burn cash. Pretty naive and foolish to include in the article. A good editor should have pulled that.

That said, with all the changes, I believe our recruiting staff and budget are the smallest in the conference. That point is legit.

John Wildhack has helped make significant changes but more work needs to be done. Dino is not playing on a level playing field with the rest of the conference.

 

[Orangezoo]

On recruiting- one thing that sticks out is that the talent in the 20 class paired with the 21 class on paper is easily the strongest haul in a very long time and could lay the foundation we have been hoping for. This current class just isn't mentally and physically ready across the board as you would expect with freshmen - so that is nothing unique to SU just that so many are having to play vs getting that year to learn.

With all that said- if we can't start hitting singles instead of striking out (forget HRs for the time being) with the qb, WR and OL then it matters none.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Agree. I can't imagine the powers that be would sign off on that if presented. Given it was a 4 year extension I could see cascading down payout by year but 100% ? So 4 years you get this percentage, 3 years bumps down to this percentage and so on. But 100%, that's excessive. Would be amazed if that would have been signed off on.

Even if Dino is owed 100% of his contract, he isn't making $4.25M per year.

 

[PhatOrange]

Sorry but what does this even mean? sophisticated?

Syracuse’s recruiting staff is one of the least sophisticated in the ACC, as Babers’ longtime assistant Roy Wittke is the new director of player personnel. Places like BC, Wake Forest and Rutgers – the schools Syracuse needs to beat — have invested in sophisticated operations. The Orange are lagging behind.

You can't state something like that without some explanation, and just because he says it doesn't make it so.

Thamel has no idea what he's talking about.

 

[Ozcuse]

for all the Doom and Gloom fix 2 pieces of the Oline and we are 3-2 right now.. Can that be done next yr with what we have coming back ,, pretty sure it can.

Hold on a minute.

Which 2 games were we winning that we didn't?

 

[djorange1989]

the current state of the program is terrible, but fundraising has gone way up as mentioned by many, and Dino did bring in two new coordinators and two new position coaches, and on paper it seems that has helped thus far in terms of recruiting. Next year has to be a bowl year, the schedule as currently written sets us up for that, but we have so much to fix (OL, QB, WR, DL, hope for the youngsters on D to grow). We have to hit the transfer market like we are Hugh Motherfreaking Freeze, we can't rely on "hey, if everyone is back and healthy we should be ok", we aren't ok even if that is the case, we need more

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Thamel has a love/hate relationship with us.
When he gets access it’s love.
Since he lost access it’s hate.
Boeheim doesn’t like him so he gets nothing from him. Thus he is critical of Boeheim.

He believes the Maryland job is levels above the Syracuse job. Now I concede the Maryland job is better because of recruiting location the difference between the jobs isn’t gigantic. Thamel had Dr. Gross as a direct source when he did he lauded the program and was positive. Since he has lost Dr. Gross his coverage has been more negative. The results aren’t much different from the Dr. Gross days but his coverage is.

You treat your sources better.
Currently he is on the hater side but again my problem with that piece is he has facts wrong.

No chance he knows the buyout terms of Babers contract and friendly media don’t.
Wildhack is not going to be a fan of that piece thus I doubt he is a source. Thamel takes care of his sources.

What is the point of a buyout if the amount due is 100% of your salary.
It’s just a termination at the point.

Syracuse can negotiate if there is a buyout.

When has he ever written as fondly about SU has he has about BC in the last 20 years? How he acted toward SU/JB was despicable. He was just as bad as Mark Schwarz.