Pete Thamel On State of SU Football

[RandomGuy]

I’m pretty sure they both plagiarized it from Ben Franklin.

Our greatest president, and the inventor of electricity.

 

[Entropic]

I’m in a group text w 5 other SU alums (fraternity brothers) and one posted a link to this yesterday.

Thamel clearly doesn’t actually know what’s going on around here, so I’ll save myself some typing by doing a copy & paste of my reply there:


True, but -

A - Syracuse has ALWAYS struggled w crooting, especially in this millennium

B - Dino has our highest rated class in nearly 2 decades lined up for next year.

C - all the new guys he just hired are dramatically better recruiters across the board than those they replaced.

D - our facilities upgrades finally put us on an equal footing w our peers. (IPF, upgraded locker rooms and housing, Dome reno, etc.)

E - we still have that $25M donation yet to be allocated.
(Wildhack himself also donated $1M, super booster Joyce Hergenhan donated $2m) -
this is unprecedented in Orange football history.

It's almost as if Wildhack & Dino knew what our shortcomings were, and have aggressively tried to address them.

Statistically speaking his 2018 and 2019 classes were better than his 2021 class. I'm confused that I keep seeing comments about this upcoming class being monumental. Babers classes have been the best in 20 years though. Sadly looking back at that 2018 class it appears most of those kids are gone or still not playing.

 

[Orangefizz]

Thamel clearly doesn’t have sources inside the SU AD anymore.
Dr. Gross would personally leak to Thamel.
It’s how he broke the news we were joining the ACC in 2011 on The NY Times site the Friday night before it went public on Saturday.


Thamel doesn’t get that fundraising has been remarkable during this pandemic and we have our best recruiting class under Dino this cycle.
What is his problem.

The problem is the product on the field. There doesn’t seem to be a lot of development in upper class players and our recruiting classes are always at the bottom of the ACC

 

[RandomGuy]

Statistically speaking his 2018 and 2019 classes were better than his 2021 class. I'm confused that I keep seeing comments about this upcoming class being monumental. Babers classes have been the best in 20 years though. Sadly looking back at that 2018 class it appears most of those kids are gone or still not playing.

Nationwide its ranked 46th. ACC rank has it with our lowest class, 2016, ranked 12th.
Rising tide floats all boats?
Also. If you look at recruiting grades? Either social media has located WAY more recruits, or the grades are inflationary. Example 2002 #50 rank with a 79 grade, top 20 grade with an 84.

 

[elimunelson]

Agree with others. Pete has to mention that Syracuse is having their best recruiting season this year. He should mention they got a WB they are getting high OB this cycle with Lamson. He could mention that Dino Judy brought Chip West OB the staff, an assistant coach with strong recruiting chops. He could have mentioned how Dino had access to a plane for recruiting these days. Lots of improvements have been made.

I doubt any AD had ever made significant changes in how a football program does recruiting. The natural job of the AD is to rein in spending, not recommend ways to burn cash. Pretty naive and foolish to include in the article. A good editor should have pulled that.

That said, with all the changes, I believe our recruiting staff and budget are the smallest in the conference. That point is legit.

John Wildhack has helped make significant changes but more work needs to be done. Dino is not playing on a level playing field with the rest of the conference.

Tom, you know we can't win this arms race. it's been going on since Pasqualoni was fired. We won't EVER have the biggest budget or staff (prob our best hope is closer to the middle).

The infrastructure at Syracuse is fine now. The key is to moneyball the heck out of the inefficiencies and build a program that can win. Dino has the charisma and the optimism to lead Syracuse and represent the school in an excellent way. I don't want anyone else in that position. The rest needs improvement. That article states as much.

 

[nzm136]

Orange in a squeeze

Syracuse’s Dino Babers made his name as a head coach for being a nemesis to Clemson at a time when few in the ACC could muster much resistance.

In 2017, Syracuse stunned No. 2 Clemson in the Carrier Dome on a Friday night, Clemson’s last ACC loss. In 2018, Syracuse nearly pulled an upset at No. 3 Clemson, as Tigers backup Chase Brice needed a 94-yard scoring drive to win the game in the final minute. That Syracuse team went on to win 10 games, the lone winning season in Babers’ five years in Syracuse.

This week, Syracuse heads to Clemson with its program in the fetal position. Beset by opt-outs and injuries and fresh off a blowout home loss to Liberty, Syracuse is bracing for an ugly Saturday on the road against the No. 1 team in the country next week.

Syracuse’s season has been a perfect storm of misery. The Orange are down to seven scholarship offensive linemen, including a converted fullback, and is playing its fifth-string tailback and backup quarterback. The Orange’s best defensive player, Andre Cisco, got injured in warmups before the Georgia Tech game and has opted out for the season.

Don’t expect Babers’ job to be in jeopardy. He has four full years remaining on his contract this year, and the most conservative estimates of his buyout are that he’d be owed at least $17 million if he was fired after this season. That number would scare a well-heeled SEC athletic department, and Syracuse is decidedly not one of those.

What can Syracuse do? Support Babers’ weaknesses. One of the issues at Syracuse is that athletic director John Wildhack has no experience overseeing a major college football program, so there’s no leadership with an idea about structure, staffing and how to out-maneuver conference peers in more ideal recruiting bases.

Recruiting has never been the heartbeat of Babers’ coaching arsenal. While he has the charisma and charm to connect, coaches and analysts in the Northeast would not rate Babers’ recruiting metabolism with coaches like BC’s Jeff Hafley, Rutgers’ Greg Schiano or Penn State’s James Franklin.

Syracuse’s recruiting staff is one of the least sophisticated in the ACC, as Babers’ longtime assistant Roy Wittke is the new director of player personnel. Places like BC, Wake Forest and Rutgers – the schools Syracuse needs to beat — have invested in sophisticated operations. The Orange are lagging behind.

The most glaring evidence of the recruiting deficiencies is the lack of talent in Syracuse’s quarterback room, as Babers has yet to recruit and develop a proven ACC-level starter, and the lack of depth in that room has always been glaringly thin. He inherited Eric Dungey, and injured redshirt junior quarterback Tommy DeVito has yet to live up to his billing.

Babers is speeding toward his fourth losing seasons in five years. There’s a clear talent deficiency that’s glaring. Syracuse and Babers are contractually in lockstep for a while. To compete in the ACC, they need to start recruiting like an ACC school.

What specifically do we lack from a recruiting operation?

(I have no doubt we’re lacking. I’m not questioning the assertion. I’m only curious to know what the opportunities look like.)

 

[690West]

Since he has left the times he has been a click baiter. He really has gone waaaay down hill in his "reporting." Rerad his non SU stuff and it is mostly garbage.

You can take out the word “mostly” if you want your post to be most accurate.

 

[SkyTopBus44]

That was Abe Lincoln. Not Mark Twain

I thought it was Mark Zuckerberg

 

[nzm136]

Tom, you know we can't win this arms race. it's been going on since Pasqualoni was fired. We won't EVER have the biggest budget or staff (prob our best hope is closer to the middle).

The infrastructure at Syracuse is fine now. The key is to moneyball the heck out of the inefficiencies and build a program that can win. Dino has the charisma and the optimism to lead Syracuse and represent the school in an excellent way. I don't want anyone else in that position. The rest needs improvement. That article states as much.

I’m mostly indifferent towards DB. The belief without evidence line is stale, and he has a tenuous grip on the team. But he’s no Joe Pa/James Franklin and the captain of my favorite ship.

Since that ship is still floating in my eyes, I want DB to find a way to prove doubters wrong. Failing that ability, I would also be happy if the next guy did (whoever that guy would ends up being).

Moving on from the guy himself, I think we need to be unique in football. We can’t use the same approach that southern schools recruit/design their teams to stop. We need to do the opposite and find a way to make it work with northeast talent. I have no idea what that philosophy looks like, but I’m also not paid $3 MM to know.

 

[upperdeck]

Hold on a minute.

Which 2 games were we winning that we didn't?

any of them.. you dont think scoring matters? fix 2 spots and 4th and 1s or red zone drives early in the UNC game or the Liberty game or the Pitt game are huge.. We probably are up 2 scores in any of them if we could run just a little power.. do we not watch these games? just drives alone where we had the ball to make key plays and failed.

UNC game 4X
down 7-0 ball the 20 fail on 4th and 1
down 7-0 ball at unc 10 get a FG
down 7-3 ball at UNC 10 fail and then miss FG
down 7-3 ball at UNC 4 fail 3 times kick fg now its 6-7

Pitt game 3X
0-0 ball at pitt 35 no FG attempt and punt
0-0 ball at pitt 10 kick FG
down 14-10 ball at pitt 30.. can run throw INT

Duke game..

Su up 14-10 with the ball at the 22.. we ran 4 times twice needing 1 yd. we go up 21-10 at that point and you dont think that matters?

Liberty
7-7 ball at liberty 30 lose yds no fg / punt
down 14-7 ball at Liberty 5.. loss on downs.
down 28-14 start inside the 50. no runs throw INT


UNC we could with almost no real special plays be up at UNC 28-7.. thats all on the oline.
Pitt should have been up at worst 17-14 late
Duke easily be up 21-10 against at team that just cant throw without play action
Liberty should have been up 7 not down 7 and energy changes.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

You can take out the word “mostly” if you want your post to be most accurate.

I think he was a good writer, but he has become the epitome of today's sports "journalism." It is now about H0T Takes, controversy, and opinion. Quality and facts be damned.

 

[Alsacs]

Nationwide its ranked 46th. ACC rank has it with our lowest class, 2016, ranked 12th.
Rising tide floats all boats?
Also. If you look at recruiting grades? Either social media has located WAY more recruits, or the grades are inflationary. Example 2002 #50 rank with a 79 grade, top 20 grade with an 84.

The 46th best recruiting class 4 years in a row should be good enough to get you to 6-6 most years in the ACC.

We aren’t going to beat Clemson or Florida State often.

What Pitt has done to Syracuse since 2004 is just completely unacceptable.
Pitt gets slightly better talent but our talent isn’t that much worse.

Syracuse football should be bowling at least every other year. At least.

 

[Chip]

Thamel clearly doesn’t have sources inside the SU AD anymore.
Dr. Gross would personally leak to Thamel.
It’s how he broke the news we were joining the ACC in 2011 on The NY Times site the Friday night before it went public on Saturday.


Thamel doesn’t get that fundraising has been remarkable during this pandemic and we have our best recruiting class under Dino this cycle.
What is his problem.

This is like Jeopardy. You gave the answer first and the question last.

 

[PatMark]

the current state of the program is terrible, but fundraising has gone way up as mentioned by many, and Dino did bring in two new coordinators and two new position coaches, and on paper it seems that has helped thus far in terms of recruiting. Next year has to be a bowl year, the schedule as currently written sets us up for that, but we have so much to fix (OL, QB, WR, DL, hope for the youngsters on D to grow). We have to hit the transfer market like we are Hugh Motherfreaking Freeze, we can't rely on "hey, if everyone is back and healthy we should be ok", we aren't ok even if that is the case, we need more

From what I've seen/heard - it seems Wildhack should get more of the praise for fundraising going up than Dino. People like giving their money to a Cuse guy rather than other places.

 

[CuseGrad94]

Just like dino used his leverage to get his deal JW needs to grow a pair and use his, do something similar to this, we won't get a whole lot back, I doubt much but we better get something. Dino knows if he's canned here after 1-10 he'll never get a P5HC job again.

Gus Malzahn reportedly set to amend his contract in order to stay on at Auburn

The story just keeps getting more and more wild at Auburn.

www.saturdaydownsouth.com

Paging Hugh Freeze...Paging Hugh Freeze

 

[SkyTopBus44]

I used to like Pete Thamel's stuff in the Daily Orange when we were both students at the same time. Do they even have a print version of the DO anymore? I used to read it at Shaw dining on the regular. The big lectures were times to do the crossword puzzles and read the comics. I guess the kids today are on snapface and other social media. Also they pay twice as much for school so they likely feel much more guilty than I did about wasting time in class. If my parents knew that the lectures were spent mostly looking at a student newspaper and staring at the girls from alpha phi they might have been disappointed in the investment.

 

[oldpinepoint]

I can’t disagree with anything he said. He was pointing out facts as I saw them. Is our recruiting better? Well yes somewhat, I wouldn’t mention 2021 because the class is far from finished. I would have liked some more detail such as...How does our recruiting operations compare to our peers? Are we understaffed, what do other programs do that Cuse doesn’t. Fundraising has been off the charts which is a huge positive and hopefully some of thst $$$$ will help with staffing. Also remember this isn’t a 4 page article about SU football. It’s a 4 paragraph cliff note version including brief synopsis about other teams. Overall i thought it gave a good view of why this season is a dumpster fire

 

[RandomGuy]

The 46th best recruiting class 4 years in a row should be good enough to get you to 6-6 most years in the ACC.

We aren’t going to beat Clemson or Florida State often.

What Pitt has done to Syracuse since 2004 is just completely unacceptable.
Pitt gets slightly better talent but our talent isn’t that much worse.

Syracuse football should be bowling at least every other year. At least.

Sure. The previous classes were ranked just a tad higher in the ACC , which should have yielded the same. The Dazzler managed it with repeated 13th and 14th rated classes in the ACC. By that measure, you'd think we'd be better than 6-6

 

[690West]

I hold these truths to be self evident:

Thamel’s facts are accurate
Thamel is still a sniveling D-b@g

 

[upperdeck]

I think the glimpses we are seeing in the DBs and LBs need to be seen in the big guys at some point if we want to progress.. You cant fail the trenches and scheme around that

 

[LeMoyneCuse]

Given Thamel's comments about buyout and problems with recruiting, I'd give a mint to know what Steven Godfrey has heard about Cuse - people tell him everything.

 

[Cusefan69]

Based on what I have seen from JW, he is a great guy. Seems devoted to Syracuse, attentive to the sports up there, has committed money out of his own pocket and looks to remove barriers as best he is able. He also knows how to operate in a corporate environment (experience which brings benefits)and I am guessing has influenced favorably the marketing efforts. Really I don't have a single beef with the guy at this point and really no one should unless he did something I have not heard about. I trust JW.

 

[sutomcat]

Tom, you know we can't win this arms race. it's been going on since Pasqualoni was fired. We won't EVER have the biggest budget or staff (prob our best hope is closer to the middle).

The infrastructure at Syracuse is fine now. The key is to moneyball the heck out of the inefficiencies and build a program that can win. Dino has the charisma and the optimism to lead Syracuse and represent the school in an excellent way. I don't want anyone else in that position. The rest needs improvement. That article states as much.

I agree we will never have the biggest budget or the most staff. That is not realistic. Like John says, we need to do more with less. But I think it is realistic to have a budget in or close to the middle of the conference. I think we are making strides. COVID makes it hard to catch up.

But I think John understands the concept that you have to spend money to make strides for football better than his predecessor. I think he will listen to his head coach and the staff and take their input to ensure the money is spent wisely. And perhaps most importantly, I think John has the ability to raise money from donors, and convince the powers that be at the university to provide money, far, far better than previous SU ADs.

These are keys reasons why John will be successful in turning the football program around. It takes time to recover from the mess we were in. COVID has not helped things. But it is going to happen. John will get it done.

 

[Chip]

I think the glimpses we are seeing in the DBs and LBs need to be seen in the big guys at some point if we want to progress.. You cant fail the trenches and scheme around that

Yep, have to do better at the LOS on both sides of the ball. OL will get a mulligan this year for all the injuries, and should see an instant upgrade with Dakota and Bleich.

DL has older guys in at least 5 of the 6 two deep roles. And it just seems like they're having little to no impact on the opponents running game. If the issue is no true NT, then they better go get at least two of them via transfer.

 

[FreakTalksAboutSU]

Sadly I agree. If he is owed 17 mill, they wont cut bait now.

We are going to be bad for a long time