Pete Thamel

[albanycuse]

So where is player accountability? Every single thing has talked about Red Red Red. This isn’t me standing up for him but for someone who played division 1 sports, I never blamed my coach once for anything. These kids have to take accountability for something. JJ refuses to play defense. He doesn’t try to get better. I’ve seen practice, it’s taught, it’s instructed, it’s beyond apparent the coaches try, but JJ cares more about scoring. He’s soft on defense and always has been. So that’s also on Red? Cmon stop blaming the coach for every single thing. These kids getting paid DONT CARE if they lose. No matter what someone can say 100000 times over, the kid either wants to or not and we have seen they don’t care about playing defense or losing games

This tells me they don’t respect their head coach. Everything always goes back to the man in charge.

 

[sufan59]

So where is player accountability? Every single thing has talked about Red Red Red. This isn’t me standing up for him but for someone who played division 1 sports, I never blamed my coach once for anything. These kids have to take accountability for something. JJ refuses to play defense. He doesn’t try to get better. I’ve seen practice, it’s taught, it’s instructed, it’s beyond apparent the coaches try, but JJ cares more about scoring. He’s soft on defense and always has been. So that’s also on Red? Cmon stop blaming the coach for every single thing. These kids getting paid DONT CARE if they lose. No matter what someone can say 100000 times over, the kid either wants to or not and we have seen they don’t care about playing defense or losing games

I think the player accountability aspect here is that the common board take last season was a great first year for a first time head coach with a roster of immature players that could’ve likely been better with more accountability from the players. Moves were made in the offseason to specifically retain guys who listen and are mature. From the sounds of it, the team itself is more mature, but isn’t listening and implementing the feedback. Last season was also a player accountability issue, so it’s quite normal when you think that issue was resolved in the last offseason that people will start to think it’s an issue with the man in charge that he isn’t getting 100% out of his players all of the time.

 

[Capt. Tuttle]

We have to pay for JJ any way right not like he is free? Use his money for a replacement that plays defense that works hard.

I’d be okay relying on Choppa, health permitting.

 

[Jack_Ball]

So where is player accountability? Every single thing has talked about Red Red Red. This isn’t me standing up for him but for someone who played division 1 sports, I never blamed my coach once for anything. These kids have to take accountability for something. JJ refuses to play defense. He doesn’t try to get better. I’ve seen practice, it’s taught, it’s instructed, it’s beyond apparent the coaches try, but JJ cares more about scoring. He’s soft on defense and always has been. So that’s also on Red? Cmon stop blaming the coach for every single thing. These kids getting paid DONT CARE if they lose. No matter what someone can say 100000 times over, the kid either wants to or not and we have seen they don’t care about playing defense or losing games

Easy solution - Ass meet bench until behavior is changed. We are losing anyway so whats the difference.

 

[longtimefan]

I’d be okay relying on Choppa, health permitting.

In my mind, he didn't show much. Maybe it's a lack of experience.

 

[kingtidge]

Easy solution - Ass meet bench until behavior is changed. We are losing anyway so whats the difference.

OK, so he did that with Bell. It didn't work.

 

[Jack_Ball]

OK, so he did that with Bell. It didn't work.

Then you put him back on the bench until he gets the message. The coach runs the team - not the players

 

[OrangeCrush22]

Career Offensive Efficiency by TS%:

Brandon Triche .542
Joe Girard .547
Buddy Boeheim .538
Tyus Battle .537
Elijah Hughes .562
Dion .551

JJ Starling this year .500 and .507 for his career.

JJ is easily the best athlete on the team and the only one with an ability to create his own shots. He isn’t a world beater but he is dragged down by coaching and roster construction. I’d argue JJ is the only player on the team who would get playing time on the good teams we had a decade ago.

 

[Fly Rodder]

These kids have to take accountability for something. JJ refuses to play defense. He doesn’t try to get better. I’ve seen practice, it’s taught, it’s instructed, it’s beyond apparent the coaches try, but JJ cares more about scoring. He’s soft on defense and always has been. So that’s also on Red? Cmon stop blaming the coach for every single thing. These kids getting paid DONT CARE if they lose. No matter what someone can say 100000 times over, the kid either wants to or not and we have seen they don’t care about playing defense or losing games

The accountability comes from the coach. I believe you passed along the info that Red was going to focus this year's team on JJ and Chris Bell. Neither played defense last year and neither was recruited over. Red saw who they were last season and doubled down on them, they didn't suddenly turn into these players this season.

If the players don't want to play for the coach or play the coach's way, then they get shown the bench and then the door.

 

[cardiac]

Sounds like we need to recruit guys who give a sht on that end. Agree with the JJ opinion. Some guys take it personally when they get scored on. Other guys just go through the motions.

Even last year there was no defensive identity. Its not as simple as giving a sht, thats the baseline minimum and Autry has let it slide. There needs to be a detailed system which there hasn't been the last 2 years. They have been very disorganized with no clear identity on defense. Maliq, Judah and Copeland were good enough to hide some flaws but everything falls back to Autry's system being random. It all falls on coaching, better players will make it a little better but coaching makes it great. We do not have a coach that will make it great.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Some guys take it personally when they get scored on. Other guys just go through the motions.

I’d say the number of kids that genuinely want to play defense gets fewer every year. Thank the NBA and AAU.

Need coaches to demand it or they sit. Not give them a “nice guy” high 5.

 

[FrancoPizza]

Easy solution - Ass meet bench until behavior is changed. We are losing anyway so whats the difference.

This. Red doesn't know how to be a bad cop/top dog.

 

[Newhouser]

People do because people can. Players that are allowed to not try on defense, take horrible, selfish shots, etc...sorry that is on Red. He controls the only thing that matters - PT. He also has the easiest out this season - we stink with you, we can stink without you.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Even last year there was no defensive identity. Its not as simple as giving a sht, thats the baseline minimum and Autry has let it slide. There needs to be a detailed system which there hasn't been the last 2 years. They have been very disorganized with no clear identity on defense. Maliq, Judah and Copeland were good enough to hide some flaws but everything falls back to Autry's system being random. It all falls on coaching, better players will make it a little better but coaching makes it great. We do not have a coach that will make it great.

Last year’s group was not good defensively, but they had a nose for the ball. They led the ACC in steals which covered up some of their errors.

 

[hoopsupstate]

So where is player accountability? Every single thing has talked about Red Red Red. This isn’t me standing up for him but for someone who played division 1 sports, I never blamed my coach once for anything. These kids have to take accountability for something. JJ refuses to play defense. He doesn’t try to get better. I’ve seen practice, it’s taught, it’s instructed, it’s beyond apparent the coaches try, but JJ cares more about scoring. He’s soft on defense and always has been. So that’s also on Red? Cmon stop blaming the coach for every single thing. These kids getting paid DONT CARE if they lose. No matter what someone can say 100000 times over, the kid either wants to or not and we have seen they don’t care about playing defense or losing games

Thank you. I have no doubt our coaches can teach defense. There is an accountability issue and a want to issue.

 

[kirbivore]

This has been an issue over the past 8 years of SU hoops, in my opinion. There's a reason people were sarcastically saying "As long as they're having fun!" during the Boeheim & Sons era. Seemed like everyone involved with the program was just happy to be there and no one was really killing themselves to win titles. JB sure wasn't, we know that.

Buddy legit high major D1 player no complaints about him. Foisting Jimmy upon us for 38 MPG was where JB lost me.

 

[kingtidge]

Thank you. I have no doubt our coaches can teach defense. There is an accountability issue and a want to issue.

Part of teaching good defense is getting requisite effort on the schemes taught.

If you can't get the players to give the requisite effort, you can't coach defense well.

I have serious doubts this staff can teach defense adequately. There is certainly no evidence they can.

 

[sweetpea]

Thank you. I have no doubt our coaches can teach defense. There is an accountability issue and a want to issue.

You have no doubt they can coach defense? Where is the evidence of this so far? Something has been amiss since the LeMoyne game. I gather we have a team of good kids, but either the teaching has been off or there hasn't been buy in from the players which ultimately goes back to Red. Let's hope next years team listens more.

 

[hoopsupstate]

You have no doubt they can coach defense? Where is the evidence of this so far? Something has been amiss since the LeMoyne game. I gather we have a team of good kids, but either the teaching has been off or there hasn't been buy in from the players which ultimately goes back to Red. Let's hope next years team listens more.

These guys didn’t just come out from under a rock. They’ve coached in several other programs. Bulldog has said he’s seen them coach in practice. It’s a combination of several things. Athletically insufficient, a want to or desire issue and the coaches holding everyone accountable. Unless your bigs are capable of showing on screens and recovering, you have to adjust. When your guards consistently don’t get through screens and keep guys in front of them your defense is going to be bad. The combination is lethal. They’ve shown they can do it in stretches, but not for forty minutes. That tells me it’s not a teaching issue but an accountability issue. It’s not just one, but practically the entire team. When you sit people and the guys coming in do the same thing, you’re screwed. It seems like things don‘t carry over from practice. You can see Red’s frustration after games. He knows it and wants to fix it. He made that pretty clear on the ACC call in today. Let’s see what he comes up with. With this team he should probably play man differently and play soft and just keep the ball in front. VT plays that way.

 

[wiCuse]

So where is player accountability? Every single thing has talked about Red Red Red. This isn’t me standing up for him but for someone who played division 1 sports, I never blamed my coach once for anything. These kids have to take accountability for something. JJ refuses to play defense. He doesn’t try to get better. I’ve seen practice, it’s taught, it’s instructed, it’s beyond apparent the coaches try, but JJ cares more about scoring. He’s soft on defense and always has been. So that’s also on Red? Cmon stop blaming the coach for every single thing. These kids getting paid DONT CARE if they lose. No matter what someone can say 100000 times over, the kid either wants to or not and we have seen they don’t care about playing defense or losing games

You're correct, the players should be held accountable. JB would yank players immediately after a missed rotation. Some didn't like that and felt players should be able to play through mistakes, but that was his style and we all knew it was coming. Red needs to know what buttons to push with each player. That seems to be missing.

 

[SwagSocks]

JJ is easily the best athlete on the team and the only one with an ability to create his own shots. He isn’t a world beater but he is dragged down by coaching and roster construction. I’d argue JJ is the only player on the team who would get playing time on the good teams we had a decade ago.

Big Ed creates his own shot, but as far as guards go, spot on.

JJ and Eddie are terrible on defense so they have that in common too.

 

[MSOrange]

The accountability comes from the coach. I believe you passed along the info that Red was going to focus this year's team on JJ and Chris Bell. Neither played defense last year and neither was recruited over. Red saw who they were last season and doubled down on them, they didn't suddenly turn into these players this season.

If the players don't want to play for the coach or play the coach's way, then they get shown the bench and then the door.

Exactly what I was going to say. Maybe we shouldn't have built around those guys if they refuse to play defense.

 

[007]

These guys didn’t just come out from under a rock. They’ve coached in several other programs. Bulldog has said he’s seen them coach in practice. It’s a combination of several things. Athletically insufficient, a want to or desire issue and the coaches holding everyone accountable. Unless your bigs are capable of showing on screens and recovering, you have to adjust. When your guards consistently don’t get through screens and keep guys in front of them your defense is going to be bad. The combination is lethal. They’ve shown they can do it in stretches, but not for forty minutes. That tells me it’s not a teaching issue but an accountability issue. It’s not just one, but practically the entire team. When you sit people and the guys coming in do the same thing, you’re screwed. It seems like things don‘t carry over from practice. You can see Red’s frustration after games. He knows it and wants to fix it. He made that pretty clear on the ACC call in today. Let’s see what he comes up with. With this team he should probably play man differently and play soft and just keep the ball in front. VT plays that way.

Really good post, hoops. I agree accountability is a primary factor which, unfortunately, also makes it a coaching issue by extension. I also agree with Bulldog04 - that does not absolve the player's role in any of this.

The only small push back I'd have with your points is that they are already playing a basic M2M vanilla defense with very few pressure concepts. Not sure how much "softer" they could scheme it without having a worse effect on effort, concentration, and attention to detail.

 

[hoopsupstate]

Really good post, hoops. I agree accountability is a primary factor which, unfortunately, also makes it a coaching issue by extension. I also agree with Bulldog04 - that does not absolve the player's role in any of this.

The only small push back I'd have with your points is that they are already playing a basic M2M vanilla defense with very few pressure concepts. Not sure how much "softer" they could scheme it without having a worse effect on effort, concentration, and attention to detail.

VT plays defense with almost four guys having one foot in the paint. They’ve shown they will guard the ball but very little denial. Louie Carnesecca used to play man the same way. I think Red would really like to play pressure on the ball and first pass denial, but this team isn’t close to be able to play that way.

 

[IthacaMatt]

So where is player accountability? Every single thing has talked about Red Red Red. This isn’t me standing up for him but for someone who played division 1 sports, I never blamed my coach once for anything. These kids have to take accountability for something. JJ refuses to play defense. He doesn’t try to get better. I’ve seen practice, it’s taught, it’s instructed, it’s beyond apparent the coaches try, but JJ cares more about scoring. He’s soft on defense and always has been. So that’s also on Red? Cmon stop blaming the coach for every single thing. These kids getting paid DONT CARE if they lose. No matter what someone can say 100000 times over, the kid either wants to or not and we have seen they don’t care about playing defense or losing games

That's kind of Red's job. When a guy doesn't run back on defense, Red has to sit him down, talk to him but then put him back in to try again. And if he does the same thing, use somebody else.

Some of that comes down to practice. There needs to be some edge to practices, and in the years when I used to go to practices, I don't recall seeing a lot of that. If kids don't care if they lose, that kid doesn't play again for me.