Class of 2019 - PG Dakota Leffew (GA) Portal to Georgia | Page 62 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2019 PG Dakota Leffew (GA) Portal to Georgia

What is market value? In my world I look at the ROI. I'm sure Red is doing the same but as others have posted what any new player gets for NIL is going to affect the existing NIL structure in a few ways. One current players. Two future players, Three the use of the funds needs to pay off otherwise the availability of future funds could be affected. Bottom line is what is the player worth given SUs current situation.
Does Red know for instance that Chance and or Cuffe are solid and ready to go. Does he know that Bell is on the verge of leaving and if he pays the new guy significantly more money than Bell that he either has to pony up for Bell or risk losing him... So, yes market value is what the individual can obtain for themselves, but any business should always set their own level when it comes to capital allocation.

Market rate is probably the more apt term, sorry (corrected) - the value the market will pay for a commodity.

Like anything else, every purchase/player/situation is different and you have to have your own top-end max value for a player based on expected ROI.

Also, you need to look at portal performance trends over time for a program and we're still in early days with the portal and how it's evolving.

My worry is programs with a majority of misses on their plan A's and that are getting mostly plan B's, C's, or lower, etc... That sort of portal performance is really going to ensure mediocrity or worse for a program over the longterm (unless you can somehow savant "Moneyball" odd-faced pieces that collectively perform better than their individual talent - and that is really hard to do in b-ball.)

To be or not to be competitive...
 
I was beating this drum last year. The best evidence of fair market value typically is the amount a purchaser pays in an arms' length transaction (i.e. what someone pays on the market for it who isn't getting an inside deal). When a couple programs offer around $750k to a center, that becomes the best evidence of his market value, despite whether we think anything over 350 is overpaying. I think we spend a lot of time on this site claiming the market value is what Syracuse offers and other programs are overpaying. Now, maybe we're in a bubble, but that doesn't change the current fair market value for these players. If a couple programs offer Leffew $400k and we want him for $250k, seems like we're trying to get him under market value. Doesn't mean a player is worth their market value to us, but we need to at least call it what it is.
You’re doing lots of assuming here.
 
We could also be waiting to get an idea of all the offers. Maybe we find out Georgia is offering 400k, SC is offering 375k, and we originally offered 300k. Now that we know, and if we're his first choice of actual school, we can ask him if he's willing to take 375k (or maybe 400k) and see what happens.
 
We could also be waiting to get an idea of all the offers. Maybe we find out Georgia is offering 400k, SC is offering 375k, and we originally offered 300k. Now that we know, and if we're his first choice of actual school, we can ask him if he's willing to take 375k (or maybe 400k) and see what happens.
This seems like one of the more realistic posts in this entire meandering thread.
 
You’re doing lots of assuming here.
He isn't assuming anything, he's explaining market dynamics to a bunch of people who don't want to understand. Or understand and don't care.:)

If you think an item is only worth x amount, but the market says it's worth x+y, you either need to increase the amount you're willing to pay or get used to not having the thing you desire.
 
He isn't assuming anything, he's explaining market dynamics to a bunch of people who don't want to understand. Or understand and don't care.:)

If you think an item is only worth x amount, but the market says it's worth x+y, you either need to increase the amount you're willing to pay or get used to not having the thing you desire.
Oh really?

There's also a scenario where a kid thought he could get X and he's not getting it so he's fishing for more.

Breaking the bank for this guy just because we as fans are impatient isn't a good business practice.
 
Oh really?

There's also a scenario where a kid thought he could get X and he's not getting it so he's fishing for more.

Breaking the bank for this guy just because we as fans are impatient isn't a good business practice.
I'm not advocating for breaking the bank for Leffew. I've watched exactly 0 minutes of his tape, and the only things I know about him are from this site, and this site makes him seem at the very least controversial, so I'm in no way saying we should pay more money for him. My comment is on the NIL market and how people characterize things on this site.
 
All i know is this thread is pure gold. I dont even care if he commits.
Excited Gold GIF
 
When I look at his tape I'm actually underwhelmed. I don't see a game changing player. I see a nice player who has the ability to shoot which is very valuable to us but comparing him the Chance as an example when chance was healthy there is no comparison. Chance is head and shoulders more talented.
 
We could also be waiting to get an idea of all the offers. Maybe we find out Georgia is offering 400k, SC is offering 375k, and we originally offered 300k. Now that we know, and if we're his first choice of actual school, we can ask him if he's willing to take 375k (or maybe 400k) and see what happens.
Agreed, would not be surprised if Syracuse gets the "last look" here. It's really up to the player of how much they want to play the game and whether they are negotiating in good faith or not or if they want to just go to where the highest bidder is at the end of a long drawn out process but I have no idea. The agents probably play the game as well, maybe some of the numbers aren't all legit and at the end of the day you pay what you think is the right number and sometimes you may give just a bit more but obviously there is a limit and you can't get carried away
 
Market rate is probably the more apt term, sorry (corrected) - the value the market will pay for a commodity.

Like anything else, every purchase/player/situation is different and you have to have your own top-end max value for a player based on expected ROI.

Also, you need to look at portal performance trends over time for a program and we're still in early days with the portal and how it's evolving.

My worry is programs with a majority of misses on their plan A's and that are getting mostly plan B's, C's, or lower, etc... That sort of portal performance is really going to ensure mediocrity or worse for a program over the longterm (unless you can somehow savant "Moneyball" odd-faced pieces that collectively perform better than their individual talent - and that is really hard to do in b-ball.)

To be or not to be competitive...
It will be interesting to see some data in 3-5 years. Is there real ROI for high priced "stars" in the portal? Can you play "moneyball"?

An interesting ROI example from this past season is Kansas. They brought in one of the top portal commodities, Hunter Dickenson, for $1,000,000 +/-. How many wins did they buy with this blockbuster deal?
2021-22 Kansas was 34-6 and a #1 seed in the tourny.
2022-23 they were 28-8 and a #1 seed in the tourny.
2023-24 they were 23-11 and a #4 seed in the tourny.
 
It will be interesting to see some data in 3-5 years. Is there real ROI for high priced "stars" in the portal? Can you play "moneyball"?

An interesting ROI example from this past season is Kansas. They brought in one of the top portal commodities, Hunter Dickenson, for $1,000,000 +/-. How many wins did they buy with this blockbuster deal?
2021-22 Kansas was 34-6 and a #1 seed in the tourny.
2022-23 they were 28-8 and a #1 seed in the tourny.
2023-24 they were 23-11 and a #4 seed in the tourny.
It has to be the sanctions:)
 
Agreed, would not be surprised if Syracuse gets the "last look" here. It's really up to the player of how much they want to play the game and whether they are negotiating in good faith or not or if they want to just go to where the highest bidder is at the end of a long drawn out process but I have no idea. The agents probably play the game as well, maybe some of the numbers aren't all legit and at the end of the day you pay what you think is the right number and sometimes you may give just a bit more but obviously there is a limit and you can't get carried away
"last look" sounds like a contractor to me.
 
I find it interesting to see Villanova, South Carolina and Georgia all listed on Hawkins teams contacting him, but not Syracuse. Maybe this is telling us something???

It tells me we have put all our eggs in the Leffew basket and that Red loves his chances that he is getting this kid this week.
 
Oh really?

There's also a scenario where a kid thought he could get X and he's not getting it so he's fishing for more.

Breaking the bank for this guy just because we as fans are impatient isn't a good business practice.
Yes. Consistently overpaying to “meet the market” can also lead to bankruptcy as many of my corporate clients have learned.
 
Oh really?

There's also a scenario where a kid thought he could get X and he's not getting it so he's fishing for more.

Breaking the bank for this guy just because we as fans are impatient isn't a good business practice.
You are confusing the other side of the equation of market forces.

If the product owner values his product at x, but the magnet thinks it's only worth x-y, then the product owner needs to reduce the price or risk not having a sale.

It's the essence of negotiating a deal. If Leffew gets a better offer, we need to accept the risk of losing him if we can't come up with more funds. Or how he loves Syracuse and his prospective situation so much he's willing to take less. I took a lower paying job when I was 24 because I could literally play video games half the time I was on the clock. (Too bad that place went under, I'd still be there.) Maybe Leffew feels that strongly about Syracuse.

If Leffew negotiates too hard, he could have all the teams move on and be forced to accept an offer significantly worse than what we already offered. We might even take him for 100k to be a backup if things go badly enough for him...

When Boras (the biggest MLB agent) screws up the contract negotiating badly enough for one of his clients, he has them sign a one year deal for a high average value, but not as many years as they wanted. He calls it a "pillow contract" as a way to soften the blow.

But every year is a pillow year in college basketball free agency, so the risk is even higher for college kids and the total rewards are lower. Thus, market forces should bring down pricing as the music comes to an end.

In the other hand, Red could get fired if we play a season without a quality point guard, so if he's holding back available resources to stick to his idea of x, I think he's got to blink at some point.

Unless, of course, we literally have no more to offer. Then we're back to the beginnings of this whole conversation.
 
When I look at his tape I'm actually underwhelmed. I don't see a game changing player. I see a nice player who has the ability to shoot which is very valuable to us but comparing him the Chance as an example when chance was healthy there is no comparison. Chance is head and shoulders more talented.
In some ways Leffew is Chance Westry insurance... I wonder if that's part of his equation.

If Westry is out, or ineffective, the minutes at PG might be Leffew 32 Westry 5 and Cuffe 3.

If Westry is great, it might be Leffew 25 Westry 15, with Westry also getting 10-15 next to Leffew in one of the other positions he can play. Their games are definitely compatible.
 
You are confusing the other side of the equation of market forces.

If the product owner values his product at x, but the magnet thinks it's only worth x-y, then the product owner needs to reduce the price or risk not having a sale.

It's the essence of negotiating a deal. If Leffew gets a better offer, we need to accept the risk of losing him if we can't come up with more funds. Or how he loves Syracuse and his prospective situation so much he's willing to take less. I took a lower paying job when I was 24 because I could literally play video games half the time I was on the clock. (Too bad that place went under, I'd still be there.) Maybe Leffew feels that strongly about Syracuse.

If Leffew negotiates too hard, he could have all the teams move on and be forced to accept an offer significantly worse than what we already offered. We might even take him for 100k to be a backup if things go badly enough for him...

When Boras (the biggest MLB agent) screws up the contract negotiating badly enough for one of his clients, he has them sign a one year deal for a high average value, but not as many years as they wanted. He calls it a "pillow contract" as a way to soften the blow.

But every year is a pillow year in college basketball free agency, so the risk is even higher for college kids and the total rewards are lower. Thus, market forces should bring down pricing as the music comes to an end.

In the other hand, Red could get fired if we play a season without a quality point guard, so if he's holding back available resources to stick to his idea of x, I think he's got to blink at some point.

Unless, of course, we literally have no more to offer. Then we're back to the beginnings of this whole conversation.
I'm not confusing anything. Posters who seem to be impatient gave their views of what might be happening insinuating we aren't managing this correctly and I gave another that hadn't been suggested. I can't wait for this to be over so we can stop discussing every little detail.
 
I'm not confusing anything. Posters who seem to be impatient gave their views of what might be happening insinuating we aren't managing this correctly and I gave another that hadn't been suggested. I can't wait for this to be over so we can stop discussing every little detail.
Confusing was probably unkind characterisation.

Ignoring was probably more accurate.

I'm actually finding the Leffew situation fascinating as a case study, independent of his actual basketball abilities and the end result of the negotiation.

In the end, as a poster just said up thread, if Red wants him, I want him.
 
I’ve given up on this thread and just scroll thru now looking for actual informational tweets.
Just a pity party of narratives at this point outside of exactly what you said, The few informational tweets or posters like dash.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
170,294
Messages
4,882,745
Members
5,991
Latest member
Fowler

Online statistics

Members online
225
Guests online
1,042
Total visitors
1,267


...
Top Bottom