Class of 2019 - PG Dakota Leffew (GA) Portal to Georgia | Page 62 | Syracusefan.com

Class of 2019 PG Dakota Leffew (GA) Portal to Georgia

Marsh01 said:
All i know is this thread is pure gold. I dont even care if he commits.
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Excited Gold GIF
 
When I look at his tape I'm actually underwhelmed. I don't see a game changing player. I see a nice player who has the ability to shoot which is very valuable to us but comparing him the Chance as an example when chance was healthy there is no comparison. Chance is head and shoulders more talented.
 
bnoro said:
We could also be waiting to get an idea of all the offers. Maybe we find out Georgia is offering 400k, SC is offering 375k, and we originally offered 300k. Now that we know, and if we're his first choice of actual school, we can ask him if he's willing to take 375k (or maybe 400k) and see what happens.
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Agreed, would not be surprised if Syracuse gets the "last look" here. It's really up to the player of how much they want to play the game and whether they are negotiating in good faith or not or if they want to just go to where the highest bidder is at the end of a long drawn out process but I have no idea. The agents probably play the game as well, maybe some of the numbers aren't all legit and at the end of the day you pay what you think is the right number and sometimes you may give just a bit more but obviously there is a limit and you can't get carried away
 
kingtidge said:
Market rate is probably the more apt term, sorry (corrected) - the value the market will pay for a commodity.

Like anything else, every purchase/player/situation is different and you have to have your own top-end max value for a player based on expected ROI.

Also, you need to look at portal performance trends over time for a program and we're still in early days with the portal and how it's evolving.

My worry is programs with a majority of misses on their plan A's and that are getting mostly plan B's, C's, or lower, etc... That sort of portal performance is really going to ensure mediocrity or worse for a program over the longterm (unless you can somehow savant "Moneyball" odd-faced pieces that collectively perform better than their individual talent - and that is really hard to do in b-ball.)

To be or not to be competitive...
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It will be interesting to see some data in 3-5 years. Is there real ROI for high priced "stars" in the portal? Can you play "moneyball"?

An interesting ROI example from this past season is Kansas. They brought in one of the top portal commodities, Hunter Dickenson, for $1,000,000 +/-. How many wins did they buy with this blockbuster deal?
2021-22 Kansas was 34-6 and a #1 seed in the tourny.
2022-23 they were 28-8 and a #1 seed in the tourny.
2023-24 they were 23-11 and a #4 seed in the tourny.
 
Skinny.Atlas said:
It will be interesting to see some data in 3-5 years. Is there real ROI for high priced "stars" in the portal? Can you play "moneyball"?

An interesting ROI example from this past season is Kansas. They brought in one of the top portal commodities, Hunter Dickenson, for $1,000,000 +/-. How many wins did they buy with this blockbuster deal?
2021-22 Kansas was 34-6 and a #1 seed in the tourny.
2022-23 they were 28-8 and a #1 seed in the tourny.
2023-24 they were 23-11 and a #4 seed in the tourny.
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It has to be the sanctions:)
 
IthacaBarrel said:
Agreed, would not be surprised if Syracuse gets the "last look" here. It's really up to the player of how much they want to play the game and whether they are negotiating in good faith or not or if they want to just go to where the highest bidder is at the end of a long drawn out process but I have no idea. The agents probably play the game as well, maybe some of the numbers aren't all legit and at the end of the day you pay what you think is the right number and sometimes you may give just a bit more but obviously there is a limit and you can't get carried away
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"last look" sounds like a contractor to me.
 
hoopsupstate said:
I find it interesting to see Villanova, South Carolina and Georgia all listed on Hawkins teams contacting him, but not Syracuse. Maybe this is telling us something???
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It tells me we have put all our eggs in the Leffew basket and that Red loves his chances that he is getting this kid this week.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
Oh really?

There's also a scenario where a kid thought he could get X and he's not getting it so he's fishing for more.

Breaking the bank for this guy just because we as fans are impatient isn't a good business practice.
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Yes. Consistently overpaying to “meet the market” can also lead to bankruptcy as many of my corporate clients have learned.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
Oh really?

There's also a scenario where a kid thought he could get X and he's not getting it so he's fishing for more.

Breaking the bank for this guy just because we as fans are impatient isn't a good business practice.
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You are confusing the other side of the equation of market forces.

If the product owner values his product at x, but the magnet thinks it's only worth x-y, then the product owner needs to reduce the price or risk not having a sale.

It's the essence of negotiating a deal. If Leffew gets a better offer, we need to accept the risk of losing him if we can't come up with more funds. Or how he loves Syracuse and his prospective situation so much he's willing to take less. I took a lower paying job when I was 24 because I could literally play video games half the time I was on the clock. (Too bad that place went under, I'd still be there.) Maybe Leffew feels that strongly about Syracuse.

If Leffew negotiates too hard, he could have all the teams move on and be forced to accept an offer significantly worse than what we already offered. We might even take him for 100k to be a backup if things go badly enough for him...

When Boras (the biggest MLB agent) screws up the contract negotiating badly enough for one of his clients, he has them sign a one year deal for a high average value, but not as many years as they wanted. He calls it a "pillow contract" as a way to soften the blow.

But every year is a pillow year in college basketball free agency, so the risk is even higher for college kids and the total rewards are lower. Thus, market forces should bring down pricing as the music comes to an end.

In the other hand, Red could get fired if we play a season without a quality point guard, so if he's holding back available resources to stick to his idea of x, I think he's got to blink at some point.

Unless, of course, we literally have no more to offer. Then we're back to the beginnings of this whole conversation.
 
kcsu said:
When I look at his tape I'm actually underwhelmed. I don't see a game changing player. I see a nice player who has the ability to shoot which is very valuable to us but comparing him the Chance as an example when chance was healthy there is no comparison. Chance is head and shoulders more talented.
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In some ways Leffew is Chance Westry insurance... I wonder if that's part of his equation.

If Westry is out, or ineffective, the minutes at PG might be Leffew 32 Westry 5 and Cuffe 3.

If Westry is great, it might be Leffew 25 Westry 15, with Westry also getting 10-15 next to Leffew in one of the other positions he can play. Their games are definitely compatible.
 
Niastri said:
You are confusing the other side of the equation of market forces.

If the product owner values his product at x, but the magnet thinks it's only worth x-y, then the product owner needs to reduce the price or risk not having a sale.

It's the essence of negotiating a deal. If Leffew gets a better offer, we need to accept the risk of losing him if we can't come up with more funds. Or how he loves Syracuse and his prospective situation so much he's willing to take less. I took a lower paying job when I was 24 because I could literally play video games half the time I was on the clock. (Too bad that place went under, I'd still be there.) Maybe Leffew feels that strongly about Syracuse.

If Leffew negotiates too hard, he could have all the teams move on and be forced to accept an offer significantly worse than what we already offered. We might even take him for 100k to be a backup if things go badly enough for him...

When Boras (the biggest MLB agent) screws up the contract negotiating badly enough for one of his clients, he has them sign a one year deal for a high average value, but not as many years as they wanted. He calls it a "pillow contract" as a way to soften the blow.

But every year is a pillow year in college basketball free agency, so the risk is even higher for college kids and the total rewards are lower. Thus, market forces should bring down pricing as the music comes to an end.

In the other hand, Red could get fired if we play a season without a quality point guard, so if he's holding back available resources to stick to his idea of x, I think he's got to blink at some point.

Unless, of course, we literally have no more to offer. Then we're back to the beginnings of this whole conversation.
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I'm not confusing anything. Posters who seem to be impatient gave their views of what might be happening insinuating we aren't managing this correctly and I gave another that hadn't been suggested. I can't wait for this to be over so we can stop discussing every little detail.
 
Cusefan0307 said:
I'm not confusing anything. Posters who seem to be impatient gave their views of what might be happening insinuating we aren't managing this correctly and I gave another that hadn't been suggested. I can't wait for this to be over so we can stop discussing every little detail.
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Confusing was probably unkind characterisation.

Ignoring was probably more accurate.

I'm actually finding the Leffew situation fascinating as a case study, independent of his actual basketball abilities and the end result of the negotiation.

In the end, as a poster just said up thread, if Red wants him, I want him.
 
CA Monk said:
I’ve given up on this thread and just scroll thru now looking for actual informational tweets.
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Just a pity party of narratives at this point outside of exactly what you said, The few informational tweets or posters like dash.
 
You guys keep talking about market value like this is an exact science. If someone else is willing to pay player X 1M$ then the market value is 1M$ for a player in his position, no. That value is unique to him, and whoever willing to pay 1M$ for that player has (presumably) done some homework to determined that they need that player to cross a threshold to be a strong contender.

We are not. We are not the cuse of 1976-2013, we are not a top 10 program, we are not the Syracuse vs Georgetown best rivalry in CBB back in the days, we are not even sniffing the bubble. The beast of the east is UConn. Do I like it? Heck no. Do I accept it? Yes it's the reality what else can I do but accept it?

When everyone thinks market value is fair, is when a bubble is formed and bust. There are 55% of all players in the portal, we are not looking at some unicorn player who is going to move the needle in a significant way. Why overpay?

I think Red is trying to stabilize the situation and the roster. There needs to be a balance of the roster. Needs to have a good mix of new recruits and veterans, everyone needs to play their roles and stick to a game plan. Last thing you need is to have knee jerk reactions for a player that turns the locker room toxic. There is a reason in a work place we don't generally tell our coworkers how much we get paid what our bonuses are stock options etc...these days these players announce their NIL deals on Instagram.

There is no quick turnaround to this. Yes a good team can be built in one year because you can wholesale change your roster by paying. It's a big gamble though because you could end up with 5 unicorns resulting in a dumpster fire. I think it's as important to establish the culture and get things trending in the right direction.
 
miamicuse said:
You guys keep talking about market value like this is an exact science. If someone else is willing to pay player X 1M$ then the market value is 1M$ for a player in his position, no. That value is unique to him, and whoever willing to pay 1M$ for that player has (presumably) done some homework to determined that they need that player to cross a threshold to be a strong contender.

We are not. We are not the cuse of 1976-2013, we are not a top 10 program, we are not the Syracuse vs Georgetown best rivalry in CBB back in the days, we are not even sniffing the bubble. The beast of the east is UConn. Do I like it? Heck no. Do I accept it? Yes it's the reality what else can I do but accept it?

When everyone thinks market value is fair, is when a bubble is formed and bust. There are 55% of all players in the portal, we are not looking at some unicorn player who is going to move the needle in a significant way. Why overpay?

I think Red is trying to stabilize the situation and the roster. There needs to be a balance of the roster. Needs to have a good mix of new recruits and veterans, everyone needs to play their roles and stick to a game plan. Last thing you need is to have knee jerk reactions for a player that turns the locker room toxic. There is a reason in a work place we don't generally tell our coworkers how much we get paid what our bonuses are stock options etc...these days these players announce their NIL deals on Instagram.

There is no quick turnaround to this. Yes a good team can be built in one year because you can wholesale change your roster by paying. It's a big gamble though because you could end up with 5 unicorns resulting in a dumpster fire. I think it's as important to establish the culture and get things trending in the right direction.
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semantics
 

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