Pitino shuts down HS recruiting at St. John's

[gmoney44]

Glad you're all so happy with this strategy. Probably the only way to do it now but to me it's the end of the joy of college basketball. It stinks to the pits of hell.

It’s not ideal but it’s better than sucking with underclassmen.

 

[dollarbill44]

Syracuse basketball desperately needs an identity and strategic didirection.

What "identity" do you want for the team? Are you thinking of "tough-nosed" or "fast-paced" or "smothering defense"? Because most teams endeavor to do one or more of those things, so I don't think there are any novel identities out there that would set us apart from 50-100 other teams.
The Boeheim zone isn't a viable defense in thw modern game where every team (but SU, it seems) has multiple 3 point shooters on the floor.

 

[Brooky03]

Um check out what he inherited. Final four program when it was almost impossible to make the final four.

What about the Final 4 in ‘75 made it “almost impossible to make?”

I know only 32 teams made the tournament, but there were something like 200 fewer schools with basketball teams.

 

[Scooch]

No, he is a great coach. I got to know him when he was an assistant at SU. He is a superstar, great coach. He has flaws but name one other coach who has succeeded at as many different places as him. Personally, I think that he is one of the greatest coaches of all time.

I literally called him an all time great coach.

He’s *also* FoS. Because he is.

 

[EnviroSciGuy]

He and his wife would NEVER willingly live in Syracuse.

What about his side piece?

 

[miamicuse]

What about his side piece?

Side pieceS, plural.

 

[NineOneSeven]

What 17 year knows who those guys are?

Some do. I’m a 34 year old and know who all stars from the 70s were.

 

[FrancoPizza]

He and his wife would NEVER willingly live in Syracuse.

Who said he had to live in Syracuse? He could fly his Cessna and be back in manhattan an hour after practice.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

What "identity" do you want for the team? Are you thinking of "tough-nosed" or "fast-paced" or "smothering defense"? Because most teams endeavor to do one or more of those things, so I don't think there are any novel identities out there that would set us apart from 50-100 other teams.
The Boeheim zone isn't a viable defense in thw modern game where every team (but SU, it seems) has multiple 3 point shooters on the floor.

I want a coach that can establish an identity, not someone that struggles from day to day.

Program is directionless. That’s all due to Red and JW.

 

[FrancoPizza]

When you thought Syracuse basketball when Boeheim was here you thought Boeheim, 2-3 zone and up and down basketball.

revisionist history. The last 10 years the zone became increasingly outdated and we stopped pushing tempo when Ennis arrived.

 

[IthacaMatt]

I didn't say no portal players, but I am a strong advocate that high school talent can be a resource pool to leverage as programs and coaches like this stop bothering.

If we can only afford to buy 4 or 5 guys with NIL, then we clearly need to recruit, develop and retain young talent to fill out the roster.

 

[Idiocuse22&]

Thats his strategy. It can work, but so can other strategies.
Part of it probably is just less recruiting work. If you have the money you are good. No more chasing 16 yr olds for him, just throw money at obvious game changers.
We shoulda hired him, we would be in the top 25.

 

[jgeorge322]

I want a coach that can establish an identity, not someone that struggles from day to day.

Program is directionless. That’s all due to Red and JW.

I mean JB drove the program into the ground… I don’t understand why people aren’t acknowledging that. Red wasn’t handed success like Schreyer. Red may not be a great coach but he was put in a very difficult situation.

 

[JonB]

He’s right. I’ve been saying this for a couple years. Why would you waste all your time, kissing these kids asses, doing in-home visits, showing up at all their games ect.

I don’t have the time to do it, but let’s think about the last 10 most highly ranked freshman that Syracuse has had. How many of them have worked out, maybe two of them? We have two top 50 freshmen on this year‘s team, and this year‘s team sucks. Is next year going to be any better if we don’t get really good guys from the portal? I don’t think so. They are freshman.

Instead, you could spend your time, and your resources, after the season is over in a two month span just grabbing the best players available. You wouldn’t have to recruit them during the season, on your day off, etc.

I do guarantee that you will see Rick Pitino go after a generational talent who will become a freshman. Too many people are hanging their hat on Syracuse being really good from a trio of freshman. Next year, they can be very good if they get a couple of upperclassman who are also very good. That’s the bottom line. Those players have to come from experience programs and be proven

 

[JonB]

He’s smart and we’re dumb. We are going to keep a horrible head coach because he has two decent freshmen.

I can agree with this

 

[AcAndAc]

What "identity" do you want for the team? Are you thinking of "tough-nosed" or "fast-paced" or "smothering defense"? Because most teams endeavor to do one or more of those things, so I don't think there are any novel identities out there that would set us apart from 50-100 other teams.
The Boeheim zone isn't a viable defense in thw modern game where every team (but SU, it seems) has multiple 3 point shooters on the floor.

I disagree. If you have the right defenders playing the zone, it is effective. If anything, the mercenary nature of college basketball/NIL should make the zone more effective because the way to solve it is not "me-first" basketball. The teams that solved it were able to use strategic passing of the ball to get OPEN 3 point shots, rather than force them. Teams had multiple 3 point shooters from 1987 to 2014. In a world where the ACC can't get 30% of its teams in the Big Dance, the zone would do just fine. In a world where HOF coaches are quitting, let's see how many of this new generation have the acumen to solve it.

 

[OrlandoCuse]

I mean JB drove the program into the ground… I don’t understand why people aren’t acknowledging that. Red wasn’t handed success like Schreyer. Red may not be a great coach but he was put in a very difficult situation.

I wanted JB gone years ago as this was what I thought would happen. It’s also why Red was the wrong hire.

 

[Chip]

Power has been given to the kids. By and large, they're not hanging around after a develop year. At least that's what everyone here is saying. I've been told that Moore is likely gone. He is having the quintessential development year, right? Sorry to be negative but this system sucks. Whoever the brainiac powers were that made these changes (Judges, lawyers, other idiots) I hate them.

I think most of us generally hate it. The problem is, where do you want all the money to go? The ADs, Chancellors, Conference commissioners all chased a pot of gold for years. That's who you should blame. It wasn't practical to think the players would do it all just for a scholarship, which is a fraction of the money.

That said, it still shouldn't be the wild west. There's a reason why pro sports aren't annual free agency. College still needs to figure out how to manage this thing.

The concept of "college athletics" went out the window with all the realignment and mega TV contracts.

 

[LAorange44]

I mean JB drove the program into the ground… I don’t understand why people aren’t acknowledging that. Red wasn’t handed success like Schreyer. Red may not be a great coach but he was put in a very difficult situation.

Maybe drove to the ground by historical standards but the program wasn’t a disaster. JB’s final two seasons in the ACC were 9-11. We’ve basically been a .500 team since joining. I don’t think there was a significant deviation his final two years. Red also wasn’t handed a bare cupboard. He had two elite players (Judah and Maliq), Burger Boy JJ, 5 star Bennie who appeared promising, and 4 star sharp shooter Chris Bell. That’s a lot of talent. A better coach could have won more than 20 games with that roster. I remain convinced that the talent, especially Judah, won us many of those 19 games, not Red’s coaching ability and the talent covered up many faults. Last year’s team is worlds apart from this years team from a talent standpoint and that’s on coach Autry. We are now a disaster that is a dumpster fire continuing to snowball. After seeing Pitino success I actually think JB would be doing well. Give him a team of old transfers like Cole swider who are ready to work. Forget the HS prima-donnas who, as cal put it, are fragile. Wasn’t that the knock on JB; recruits didn’t want to play for him because he was an ass and not a players coach?

 

[Scooch]

I think most of us generally hate it. The problem is, where do you want all the money to go? The ADs, Chancellors, Conference commissioners all chased a pot of gold for years. That's who you should blame. It wasn't practical to think the players would do it all just for a scholarship, which is a fraction of the money.

That said, it still shouldn't be the wild west. There's a reason why pro sports aren't annual free agency. College still needs to figure out how to manage this thing.

The concept of "college athletics" went out the window with all the realignment and mega TV contracts.

In a few weeks I'm going to watch the Red Sox play on Opening Day, and it's likely that 8 of the 9 guys in the lineup were with the team last year. Plus, 6 or more of them will have been in the Sox organization for at least 4 years.

And that is MLB, the sport that literally created free agency (via SCOTUS, just like college).

Meanwhile there's a good chance there will be 5 brand new starters tipping off for SU next November. Insanity.

The biggest problems currently with the college system, IMHO, is (a) Fans are expected to pay players. That's so colossally freaking dumb. Personally, I will never, ever, ever do that. (b) Essentially round-the-clock free agency. Also moronic.

But I agree, if schools are going to make $100 million/year from media deals, a big chunk of money should damn well go to the players. Every other U.S. pro sports league sees an explicit revenue share between owners and players. College should be no different, because it's 100% professional now.

 

[Scooch]

... but most of it is due to JB hanging on way too long.

I wanted JB to leave after the 2016 F4 run, largely because of him getting us a second major probation. So I lay a lot of the systemic decline of the program at his feet.

However, I also think Autry was thoroughly unprepared to take on the program-directing aspects of the HC job. Last summer's catastrophe with the portal and NIL is on him, IMHO. He didn't have foresight, didn't have a plan, and flopped badly in execution. That's the primary reason why the 2024-25 season is a disaster.

 

[Hopkins16]

Obviously, I hope that Freeman stays with us, but should he portal, St. John’s is a great place for him. Pitino will make him a lottery pick.

 

[orangecuse]

That is because they are stuck in the way they have done things and what has worked for them for years and unwilling to change and adapt. This is why the ACC has fallen off all the old head coaches have retired and the entire league has fallen off because the old-school way of doing things both on and off the court just doesn't work anymore (many fans still cant accept that).

SEC not only started spending money on players but also on coaches. They have the highest paid coaches they have the biggest NIL's because they were prepared because of football. While everyone else was way behind because I guess they didn't think it would impact Basketball as much.

100%. Unfortunately, it's the lifeblood and DNA of Syracuse University. The "get a life," "only game in town" mantra runs deep & true with SU's leadership. No different than the rigid position of how there's was no way the Dome could have field turf vs. astroturf, etc. Only, for that archaic position and alleged limitations miraculously disappear a year or so later. The IPF deal and how Marrone begged and pleaded for it and was advised "someday" by leadership, when someday was already a day late and a dollar short.

And, the beat goes on...

 

[orangecuse]

Correct I dont think it is just Syracuse either it is like the entire ACC.

Ha, so true. Personally, it reminds me somewhat of when my father had worked at GM in its hey day, where GM once had approx. 60% of the market share. And, how poor/grossly negligent senior leadership along with their 'we are GM' type mentality was the crux of their fall. Same kind of holds true here relative to the ACC and its rapid fall from its not too long ago hey dey, etc. Their current marketing/commercials, etc. are pitching how the ACC is the best basketball conference in the land, etc. I mean, wake up and smell the friggin coffee.

 

[kirbivore]

Rick Pitino says he will not be recruiting high school players this year to replace those experienced players he's losing. He says you need older, experienced players to win and you won't win relying on freshmen to play key roles unless they are the top top guys like Cooper Flagg. He will be bringing in players from the portal. In his words ... there is no more in home recruiting visits only NIL negotiations. Great article.

Big East Notebook: Pitino shuts down high school recruiting | Seton Hall hoping for burst | Sorber injury update

Big East Notebook: Pitino shuts down high school recruiting | Seton Hall hoping for burst | Sorber sustains injury

www.nj.com

Said that 6 months ago and got raked over the coals for it. SU hoops should abandon HS recruiting as well.