Pitt Postgame: all eyes on SUMBB

[tep624]

I want the guy to succeed but I saw nothing last night other than some running quickness.

How exactly are you going to see anything when he was playing on what Fran said, self admittedly, was a limited playbook and was obviously a limited playbook if you watched his series?

Watch his HS film and Rickie Collin’s and get back to me.

 

[JKinUtah]

How did he look overmatched? Seems like a blanket statement with no supporting evidence.

Seems to be a hot take here today that Carney was overmatched...what I saw was a kid smaller in stature, looked quick, threw with some zip but ran a very limited selections of plays. And cleary the staff didn't trust him under center backed up deep in our own end and brough Collins back out.

Not much to go on really but to definitively say Carney is either the answer or overmatched seems ridiculous.

 

[baggerbob]

Why do you think the staff pulled him so quickly? Because he was making good reads? Because he was an effective thrower? Because he was on the verge of getting us back into the game?

It seems to me that the staff saw what I saw with my untrained eyes. He was overmatched. He was not ready.

I am hopeful that he will be ready at some point. But he did not seem ready to me last night. Sorry.

He looked better in the game last night against that team then Rickie has in any game. And Rickie looked worse against a bad team in Colgate. That's why he got pulled.
Luke showed more poise on that one pass to Nixon then Rickie has shown in 4 games.

 

[23Zone]

I think all of our QBs not named Angeli are subpar for one reason or another. This season is dead, no sense trying to make sense of it at this point

 

[OttosShoes]

Because that’s all they let him do. He made two throws on the run. The one bad pass he had a snap that was a ground ball and he couldn’t do anything with it. Not sure how you can write him off but think Rickie is getting better.

This. You put Josh Allen in with those same overly conservative play calls and I'm not sure it looks a whole lot different. He did nothing wrong, in his 8 snaps or whatever there just wasn't ever a chance to impress.

Edit: I'll mention I specifically picked Josh Allen. Early in on his career he went through that; Bills would routinely call two awful runs and a short pass, never really gave him a chance to do any damage.

 

[OttoinGrotto]

Yes he did

 

[Scooch]

I really don’t understand the physically overmatched stuff. Carney is listed as 6’2”, 205 lbs. Collins is listed as 6’2”, 210 lbs. We know the listed heights and weights are always a bit bogus. But I’m assuming those two aren’t more than an inch and 10 pounds different in their builds. So why is Carney too small when no one has said that about Collins.

I’m truly mystified.

 

[Scooch]

We’ve got six QBs though, five on scholarship. It should take a step down going to the backup, but having one game ready out of five? Eek.

Yeah, the answer is that they blew their evaluation of Collins. He’s not anywhere close to as good as they thought he’d be. Hence, we’re screwed.

 

[Scooch]

I really don’t understand the physically overmatched stuff. Carney is listed as 6’2”, 205 lbs. Collins is listed as 6’2”, 210 lbs. We know the listed heights and weights are always a bit bogus. But I’m assuming those two aren’t more than an inch and 10 pounds different in their builds. So why is Carney too small when no one has said that about Collins.

I’m truly mystified.

I just went back and looked at when Carney was in the game, and when Collins was in afterwards. Honestly their builds look exactly the same. I have no clue what OrangePA is seeing, but I suggest he goes back and reviews the video.

 

[Millhouse]

None. If a backup succeeds it’s a surprise, like what we’ve seen with Pitt. And that dude looked totally pedestrian to me.

It’s a QB-centric sport and when you lose a good one the season goes to shlt. That’s football these days.

I would rather have someone who is balls to the wall with McCord and Collins than conservative with both because you're screwed with Collins no matter what

Ideally, they would have a brain in their head and adapt but concussions are a problem with players and a really big problem with ex players who coach so it's one size fits all

 

[Millhouse]

Yeah, the answer is that they blew their evaluation of Collins. He’s not anywhere close to as good as they thought he’d be. Hence, we’re screwed.

They rolled the dice on high variance. If he is a home run, Brown picks his next job

 

[Scooch]

They rolled the dice on high variance. If he is a home run, Brown picks his next job

Yep and they knew back in the Spring that he was a dud. That’s why they went and got Angeli.

 

[Tango32]

He looked better in the game last night against that team then Rickie has in any game. And Rickie looked worse against a bad team in Colgate. That's why he got pulled.
Luke showed more poise on that one pass to Nixon then Rickie has shown in 4 games.

This is my exact sentiment. Nailed it. I dont understand all this over matched talk. He looked perfectly fine to me. No one is asking him to be McCord or Angeli, just a semi-competent back up, which Rickie is not, so not sure how Luke could be worse. I mean Rickie has a QBR of 28... Staff has to try something different.

 

[dwilmont44]

Syracuse is currently ranked 117 in offensive YPP out of 136.

Defense is 97 out of 136.

 

[Millhouse]

Yep and they knew back in the Spring that he was a dud. That’s why they went and got Angeli.

Which is pretty good considering how late in the game they were

I just don't understand recruiting. Cecil Howard esque

 

[Scooch]

Which is pretty good considering how late in the game they were

I just don't understand recruiting. Cecil Howard esque

It’s all an informed crapshoot, just like the NFL Draft.

 

[mustacheovich]

Yep and they knew back in the Spring that he was a dud. That’s why they went and got Angeli.

It is a little perplexing that after McCord's historic year the staff grabbed a guy who hadn't played a snap and then had to pull an emergency lever. Was there not more proven guys in that December portal who wanted to follow in McCord's footsteps?

 

[HRE Otto IV]

Yep and they knew back in the Spring that he was a dud. That’s why they went and got Angeli.

I get that they missed on Collins, it happens. But what was the plan if Collins was good, and then got hurt this season? Seems like we had no plan for that, which is kind of scary. If Collins was McCordesque in the Spring and then got hurt vs Clemson, the plan was Carney as the starter right now?

I think Fran has done a great job with QB1 in his first two seasons but has had no plan for QB2 last year, this year, or next year (thus far).

 

[Scooch]

I get that they missed on Collins, it happens. But what was the plan if Collins was good, and then got hurt this season? Seems like we had no plan for that, which is kind of scary. If Collins was McCordesque in the Spring and then got hurt vs Clemson, the plan was Carney as the starter right now?

I think Fran has done a great job with QB1 in his first two seasons but has had no plan for QB2 last year, this year, or next year (thus far).

I hear ya, but QB2 is kind of a luxury at Syracuse. The biggest challenge for this program since the day I started following it (1991) has been depth.

We’ve had a lot of seasons where we could line up our starting 22 and compete with almost anyone in the country. But once injuries occur and we’re onto our 2nd or 3rd string then we tend to be screwed.

Maybe we need to start annually paying a decent 5th year FCS QB to be our QB2. I don’t know. It’s not an easy solve. No one good wants to portal and sit.

 

[HRE Otto IV]

I hear ya, but QB2 is kind of a luxury at Syracuse. The biggest challenge for this program since the day I started following it (1991) has been depth.

We’ve had a lot of seasons where we could line up our starting 22 and compete with almost anyone in the country. But once injuries occur and we’re onto our 2nd or 3rd string then we tend to be screwed.

Maybe we need to start annually paying a decent 5th year FCS QB to be our QB2. I don’t know. It’s not an easy solve. No one good wants to portal and sit.

By no means do I expect the QB2 to be a quality player. But I do think we can and should have a serviceable player.

We should be able to have a Top 50ish HS QB who is a RS FR, a Top 50ish HS QB who is a true Frosh, and some small school or JC upperclassmen transfer. Between those three can we not have guys like Mahoney, Welch, Rex, Lamson, Morgan?

The young guys like Lamson and Morgan we can have for 2 years before they go off for playing time. But in both cases FR/SOPH them is better than what we had at QB2 last year, and apparently this year (Carney is still TBD).

The last three games we are averaging 4.33 points per game in the first 3 Qs. And two of our opponents are bad defensive teams. That should not happen.

 

[Chip]

He looked a bit over matched to me.

After seeing him, there was part of me that was thinking Fran just put him in for a few plays to shut everyone up. I mean, that part of me had about 74 drinks at the tailgate, but still, it thought it.

 

[baggerbob]

After seeing him, there was part of me that was thinking Fran just put him in for a few plays to shut everyone up. I mean, that part of me had about 74 drinks at the tailgate, but still, it thought it.

Luke showed more poise in those 2 series then Rickie has shown in 4 games. Rickie has looked totally lost out there except for 4th quarters when the opponent just wanted to finish the game with no injuries.

 

[Irishsecra1]

Well, I don't think Rickie has any kind of future at SU as an effective QB unless he somehow gets a brain transplant in the next week or two.
I have no doubt Rickie has a good arm and can run when needed.
But he has to be able to scan the field, recognize the defense and decide which play to run.
He cant lock on to a receiver and throw it to him whether he is double teamed or not.
He cant have so many deer in the headlights moments where he honestly looks flummoxed

You need to have three things at minimum to be an effective QB - be able to go thru your progressions so you can pick the right play, recognize the defense that is coming at you and be able to make 10 yards or less throws that the receiver can catch in stride or at least not have to snatch them from the ground or leap high to get them out of the air.

In my humble opinion, he cant do any of these things.

As for Carney, it was a giant * to the fans to put him in for just a series and a half, only to pull him on 3rd and 9 for Collins, who promptly got sacked. I was at the game and anyone who thought Carney got any real opportunity to show what he could do is sadly mistaken.

He was allowed to hand off the ball, do a few qb run plays and asked to throw the ball three times. Made 2 of them and the third was an incomplete after a terrible snap. No interceptions or near interceptions though.

You know I wouldn't mind if our QB could consistently make 5 yard throws like Carney showed in the game. Collins cant even do that.

Fran only put him in the game to shut up the fans and make it a self fulfilling prophecy that he couldn't hack it. As someone above said, Josh Allen himself couldn't have done anything with the incredibly limited vanilla plays he was given.

Fran claims it was because Luke does not know the plays. If indeed that is true, what the hell were the coaches doing with Carney since Angeli went down. And what were they doing with him during the bye?

Frankly, these last 3 games are a horrible indictment of just how good Nixon is as a coordinator and how good Fran is as a coach. As bad as Babers was, he at least found a way to win once when we had no QB and used Villardi at wildcat. At the very least, Nixon has to look at what we actually have at QB and run plays that the QB can have success with. Much harder with inferior QBs, much easier with QBs like McCord and Angeli, but that is why Nixon gets the big bucks.

 

[OrangePA]

How exactly are you going to see anything when he was playing on what Fran said, self admittedly, was a limited playbook and was obviously a limited playbook if you watched his series?

Watch his HS film and Rickie Collin’s and get back to me.

I watched him up close and in person.

He needs a lot of work.

 

[Cuseregular]

I watched him up close and in person.

He needs a lot of work.

yes no doubt, but the kid as is is gonna give the team a better chance to win. Which we'll see played out as the season progresses and winds down with him getting more time each successive week as he confidence increases.